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#13 - 02/14/2013 | New York Islanders @ New York Rangers | 7:00 PM - MSG

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02-14-2013, 12:19 PM
  #101
nevesis
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
How is he not?
Miller is talented enough mentally and physically to be up here, and continue to learn here at the pro level.

He won't be sent down.

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02-14-2013, 12:21 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Watch the games man. Kreider has been invisible. He's playing tentative and scared.

He needs to sit for a few games and re-evaluate why he's up here in the first place.

For a player his age, in his first rookie season as a pro, complacency can not be in his dictionary.
or to completely crush his confidence beyond repair. the kid is not confident right now, this is not going to light a fire under his ass, it's going to push him deeper into his slump.

if boyle plays well, i say they send miller down and bring kreider back in regardless because of the contract situation. if boyle is a minus or takes a penalty, miller gets a contract.

and it's not who is better right now between boyle and kreider-- it's the fact that kreider is a rookie and an apparent head case

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02-14-2013, 12:24 PM
  #103
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I would think Miller would be better served in a top AHL role than being scratched frequently and/or have minutes really cut over the full year at the NHL level.

The tricky part is that having him in a limited role is likely much better for the NYR in terms of winning this year.

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02-14-2013, 12:25 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
What's the point of sending Miller down? He's not gonna learn anything more at the AHL level that he can't learn here.
Saving a year on his ELC.

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02-14-2013, 12:25 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Miller is talented enough mentally and physically to be up here, and continue to learn here at the pro level.

He won't be sent down.
That doesn't answer the question in the slightest. I agree that he will learn at the NHL level, but I see no reason why he wouldn't learn at the AHL level as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
or to completely crush his confidence beyond repair. the kid is not confident right now, this is not going to light a fire under his ass, it's going to push him deeper into his slump.
If he's that mentally fragile, he's going to have a tough time carving out a career as an NHL player.

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02-14-2013, 12:26 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
or to completely crush his confidence beyond repair. the kid is not confident right now, this is not going to light a fire under his ass, it's going to push him deeper into his slump.

if boyle plays well, i say they send miller down and bring kreider back in regardless because of the contract situation. if boyle is a minus or takes a penalty, miller gets a contract
agreed! Krieder needs to gain the trust of his coach by playing. he has to be put into situations were he can work through it. apparently Torts said "we don't have time"

well if that's the case it doesn't look like we're straying much from the formula from last year

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02-14-2013, 12:26 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
That doesn't answer the question in the slightest. I agree that he will learn at the NHL level, but I see no reason why he wouldn't learn at the AHL level as well.


If he's that mentally fragile, he's going to have a tough time carving out a career as an NHL player.
...he's 21...dealing with something he's never dealt with before... do we need to be reminded of that?

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02-14-2013, 12:27 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Anyone who doesn't agree with this move needs to get their head checked.

You're replacing Kreider with Boyle. One player who hasn't done anything all season, with a guy who is angry about being benched and will come out with fire and intensity.

One player swap will not change the identity of how this team has played recently. If Kreider was owning, and playing out of his mind, it would be a different story. In that case you'd probably sit Powe, Asham or Halpern in place of Boyle.

This move is fine, Kreider needs to sit and reevaluate why he's playing like a scared kitten.
Kreider could easily have had two extra assists these last few games. He set up a few really good scoring chances.

In his 4 games since returning from injury:

1 G
1 A
+4

He could shoot more, but again, he's more effective when he's in position to shoot and has someone capable of getting him the puck. And he's especially effective off the rush.

He needs a center that can get him the puck consistently.

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02-14-2013, 12:27 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
That doesn't answer the question in the slightest. I agree that he will learn at the NHL level, but I see no reason why he wouldn't learn at the AHL level as well.


If he's that mentally fragile, he's going to have a tough time carving out a career as an NHL player.
come on, that BS. he has to play with the big club now. If he was trusted in the playoffs, why not in the regular season, regardless if it's a shortened one.

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02-14-2013, 12:28 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by McSauer View Post
Yes, Boyle is a FRINGE 4th liner; he has NO hockey sense, NO finish and NO IDEA how to use his size...it really is no wonder that as soon as he exits the lineup we win out...

What player have you been watching this season?? The dude has one hot week each year, and people want him as a fixture in the top-9; it baffles me! The dude has no clue out there, and is, when at his best, just a pylon that gets in front of shots because he has no other option...

He would be an OK third liner in the AHL probably, and would dominate in the ECHL at this point...
Five years ago, when Boyle was far less developed than he is now, he scored 62 points in 70 AHL games. An "ok third liner" in the AHL? Statements like that make it hard to take the rest of your post seriously.

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02-14-2013, 12:28 PM
  #111
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come on, that BS. he has to play with the big club now. If he was trusted in the playoffs, why not in the regular season, regardless if it's a shortened one.
Because he was playing well in the playoffs.

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02-14-2013, 12:29 PM
  #112
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Just unreal. I still have nightmares over the Rangers being stuck in their own zone running around like chickens with their heads cut off blocking shots in last year's playoffs. Torts would really love to go back to that garbage I guess.
Remind me how deep we went into the playoffs last year?

Blocking shots as much as the Rangers do/did last year doesn't mean they ran like chickens without a head. The Rangers tired out and NJ had energy and were a hot team - look at them this season. NJ was the better team.

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02-14-2013, 12:30 PM
  #113
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Because he was playing well in the playoffs.
he played well for a few games. he still had defensive issues and disappeared at times. and he's played well for a few games this season, and others disappeared. it's how he plays. it's how gaborik plays. he needs to work on his coverage a little bit, but is it really worth risking his development to send him back down where he was still struggling?

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02-14-2013, 12:30 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Miller is talented enough mentally and physically to be up here, and continue to learn here at the pro level.

He won't be sent down.
Exactly, he's poised, and nowhere near a defensive liability. The next step in his growth is here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I would think Miller would be better served in a top AHL role than being scratched frequently and/or have minutes really cut over the full year at the NHL level.

The tricky part is that having him in a limited role is likely much better for the NYR in terms of winning this year.
The team is better with him in the lineup. There is NO logical reason to scratch him for more than the occasional 1 or 2 game--max "wake-up" job. I doubt even that would be needed. He's pretty mature/poised...

Any why would you limit his minutes/role at all? Who deserves his minutes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Saving a year on his ELC.
He could be a key piece in us actually competing for a cup. That's way more important than saving a year on a stupid ELC. This team is on a window.

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02-14-2013, 12:32 PM
  #115
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We just went from 3 scoring lines to 2.
Top 6 are still good, but putting Boyle on the 3rd kills any offense

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02-14-2013, 12:32 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
or to completely crush his confidence beyond repair. the kid is not confident right now, this is not going to light a fire under his ass, it's going to push him deeper into his slump.

if boyle plays well, i say they send miller down and bring kreider back in regardless because of the contract situation. if boyle is a minus or takes a penalty, miller gets a contract.

and it's not who is better right now between boyle and kreider-- it's the fact that kreider is a rookie and an apparent head case
If Kreider can't handle a scratch after playing like **** then he's never going to last in the NHL. did you ever think maybe torts is trying to train him not only physically as a hockey player, but mentally as well?

We have no clue what goes on in the locker room. From what i've been led to believe Torts is very good with his players off the ice, constantly encouraging and creating a confident atmosphere. I'm sure it wasn't just a "you're scratched kreids because you've been sucking."

We know Kreider has huge potential. If we know that, the rangers organization sure as hell knows that. They are not going to allow him to be ruined.

If they think he needs a game off, that's fine. For all we know, it could be like last season when Torts had kreider watch three games or so before getting in the lineup and specifically told him to focus on the way hagelin plays. With hagelin going strong now, maybe he is telling kreider to take a step back and watch hagelin play tonight to refresh his memory.

Regardless we have no clue. But I've watched this organization develop into one of the premiere ones in player development. Look at the NHL talent they have had come through there system since the lockout.

I trust there judgement and i trust there handling of kreider and all of our other prospects. If they feel this is the right move for him and the organization, i fully stand behind it. And i will continue to stand behind them until they begin having flops like the islanders constantly have in there player development.

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02-14-2013, 12:32 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
he played well for a few games. he still had defensive issues and disappeared at times. and he's played well for a few games this season, and others disappeared. it's how he plays. it's how gaborik plays. he needs to work on his coverage a little bit, but is it really worth risking his development to send him back down where he was still struggling?
If you're going to blame Chris Kreider's AHL struggles on the AHL, we're bound to disagree.

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02-14-2013, 12:33 PM
  #118
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Boyle better carry that burn with him into the game. He needs to serve a lot of crow tonight.

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02-14-2013, 12:34 PM
  #119
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Kreider shouldn't be scratched. He hasn't been playing scared, he's been a rookie adapting to the NHL. He's looked good the past few games. Don't like this. All I know is I despise this short season ********, so many decisions I don't like being made.

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02-14-2013, 12:37 PM
  #120
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Five years ago, when Boyle was far less developed than he is now, he scored 62 points in 70 AHL games. An "ok third liner" in the AHL? Statements like that make it hard to take the rest of your post seriously.
Bickel on defense = boyle on offense

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02-14-2013, 12:37 PM
  #121
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I don't agree with the scratching of Kreider.

But it could end up being better the Rangers this way: Boyle plays like a really good 3rd liner. Still a good PK player - just needs to be better 5v5. Kreider comes back into the lineup after being scratched and has a fire under his ass. Comes back in and is the Kreider we saw last game against NYI.

We'll see. Torts is doing this to light fires and kick start players.

It's not that big of a deal.

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02-14-2013, 12:37 PM
  #122
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Bickel on defense = boyle on offense
Now compare Bickels offense to Boyles defense.

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02-14-2013, 12:38 PM
  #123
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Horrid, horrid move replacing Kreider with Boyle. Kreider hasn't played outstanding but he hasn't had enough ice time either. Kreider needs to be in the top 6 consistently to develop, if not then send him to CT. Completely dissapointed with the handling of him by the Rangers. Torts had him and Miller glued to the bench the entire 3rd period against Boston. Didn't work out too well for us as we stopped forechecking and gave Boston a chance to get back in it which they did. Boyle on the 3rd line is a crime to the game of hockey

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Now compare Bickels offense to Boyles defense.
Why?

Bickel's defensive ability (non-existent) = Boyle's offensive ability (also non-existent)


Last edited by DelZottoHitTheNetJK: 02-14-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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02-14-2013, 12:38 PM
  #124
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If Kreider can't handle a scratch after playing like **** then he's never going to last in the NHL. did you ever think maybe torts is trying to train him not only physically as a hockey player, but mentally as well?

We have no clue what goes on in the locker room. From what i've been led to believe Torts is very good with his players off the ice, constantly encouraging and creating a confident atmosphere. I'm sure it wasn't just a "you're scratched kreids because you've been sucking."

We know Kreider has huge potential. If we know that, the rangers organization sure as hell knows that. They are not going to allow him to be ruined.

If they think he needs a game off, that's fine. For all we know, it could be like last season when Torts had kreider watch three games or so before getting in the lineup and specifically told him to focus on the way hagelin plays. With hagelin going strong now, maybe he is telling kreider to take a step back and watch hagelin play tonight to refresh his memory.

Regardless we have no clue. But I've watched this organization develop into one of the premiere ones in player development. Look at the NHL talent they have had come through there system since the lockout.

I trust there judgement and i trust there handling of kreider and all of our other prospects. If they feel this is the right move for him and the organization, i fully stand behind it. And i will continue to stand behind them until they begin having flops like the islanders constantly have in there player development.
I dont buy that. IMO they are ruining kreider. JT Miller was god awfu last game and yet he gets to play. kreider wasnt great but he played better than Miller on both sides of the ice. I gurantee if he played with nash/stepan/richards he would have 5 or 6 goals yet Torts has no idea how to use him

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02-14-2013, 12:39 PM
  #125
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Young players getting scratched doesn't bother me that much. It's a part of the process. If it's done too much, then I will agree it'll hinder the development. It benefited Del Zotto to an extent.

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