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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XVII

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:00 PM
  #876
ChibiPooky
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
We'll find out in the offseason. Now is not the time to make any moves as we don't know whether we will be fighting for a playoff spot or a lottery pick.

There is a great deal of uncertainty so I am of the belief we roll with what we have up until the last second of the trade deadline and if we are still in the picture we should just sit tight unless a sensible deal comes through.

I would not give up young assets or fill up cap space for next year until the offseason (that includes re upping Ribeiro)
I would agree if we were talking about acquiring an older player or rental type. Ryan O'Reilly is neither. It's not like we're talking about a guy who'd be a one-and-done shot. He'd be under team control for a minimum of four seasons and fits into the long-term picture quite nicely.

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02-14-2013, 12:05 PM
  #877
Brad Tolliver
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Originally Posted by msrulo View Post
2013-14 lineup speculation:

Forsberg-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Chimera-Ribeiro-Ward
Laich-Johansson-Brouwer
Hendricks-Perreault-Wilson

Alzner-Green
Poti-Carlson
Schultz-Erskine

Holtby
Neuvirth
Can I borrow your copy of NHL 13?

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:09 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
I would agree if we were talking about acquiring an older player or rental type. Ryan O'Reilly is neither. It's not like we're talking about a guy who'd be a one-and-done shot. He'd be under team control for a minimum of four seasons and fits into the long-term picture quite nicely.
The problem with O'Reilly is that not only would we have to give up 2 assets (roster player and top prospect from what I've heard) but that he wants 5 million per.

So basically next year we'd slot him in Ribeiro's position and be short a prospect and roster player.

Colorado is not just gonna give him away for spare parts either.

Why not keep our assets and use that money to sign Ribeiro if you want to go that route?

We are thin enough in our prospect pool after so many graduates that I'd rather not lose Forsberg, Wilson or Kuznetsov. Outside of those 3 I doubt Colorado would listen if we offer some other prospect thats not top notch.

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02-14-2013, 12:12 PM
  #879
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Even if he costs just Johansson and a pick I'd rather sign a bull like Clowe or Horton.
Clowe would be a nice pickup simply from the usefulness of having a top 6 enforcer caliber fighter but ideally you'd want both.

O'Reilly would slide in as a 2C next year.

Clowe Backstrom Brouwer
Ovechkin O'Reilly ???

NHL '13, brahs.

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02-14-2013, 12:16 PM
  #880
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I think its pretty obvious that Ribeiro should be resigned.

I like O'Reilly...but sign the guy thats obviously a decent fit. Finally.

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02-14-2013, 12:18 PM
  #881
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Yep. Sign Ribs, get a winger. Hopefully either Noovy or Holtby settle in so we don't have to look for a goalie.

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02-14-2013, 12:20 PM
  #882
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I think ribs should be resigned too, dude is slick with the puck and doesnt get hit a lot so I think has a couple more good years left. Our PP with him, mean lars, green, and OhV has been pretty good.

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02-14-2013, 12:20 PM
  #883
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If O'Reilly is what he appears to be, he'd be a much better guy to have going forward than Ribeiro. Much more versatile.

But no way can we afford what many of other suitors can offer. Keeping Ribeiro is much more realistic, and hopefully doable.

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02-14-2013, 12:22 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
I think its pretty obvious that Ribeiro should be resigned.

I like O'Reilly...but sign the guy thats obviously a decent fit. Finally.
Or barring that use the $5 mil to sign some other center in UFA.

I just don't like the idea of giving up young assets ATM. we aren't exactly chock full of them. We got a couple top notch guys and then a bunch of long shots.

In a salary cap world its important to keep churning out cheap young players that can take the place of higher paid UFAs that we let walk b/c we have to.

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02-14-2013, 12:22 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
His line was not used as a top scoring line. It was line matched against the opposing top scoring line. He and Landeskog had by far the highest quality of competition on the team, with .035 for O'Reilly and .036 for Landeskog. The next closest was Downie at .014. O'Reilly's ice time increases due to the fact that he was on the top penalty killing unit. On that top penalty killing unit, he had 7% offensive zone starts, and over 27% offensive zone finishes.
He also had more ES TOI than either Stastny or Duchene. His PP TOI/G was tied with Stastny and only 3 seconds less than Duchene. He was used in every situation just as much or more than Stastny and Duchene. His linemates had higher production than either of Stastny's or Duchene's. He saw a dead even 50% offensive zone start (as opposed to McClement's 34.3% and Stastny's 50.7%).

How is that not a #1 center? Because he's also used heavily defensively? So is Datsyuk.

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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
OK, now which of those are actually available right now? Most are on playoff teams who will hold them. I don't see Iginla moving. So that leaves... Ryder? So the Caps are going to acquire Ryder, who will likely be sold for futures, with what roster space?
We're 4-8-1. Why do you care which of them is available right now? Do you really think we should be "buying" in the trade market? Wait until the off-season, then pounce of one of those guys.

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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
How long do you think Ribeiro will stay with the team and be effective? 3 years? 4? Ryan O'Reilly will still be a restricted free agent four years from now. And again, he'd be ready to step into Ribeiro's vacated spot.

This isn't the kind of player you pass on if you have the chance to acquire him, just because you have an aging, impending UFA center who's playing really well.
Talk about moving the goal posts. I started this by saying that O'Reilly only makes sense if you're getting rid of Ribeiro. You countered with how O'Reilly is fine being a 3C and how we can keep both him and Ribeiro. Now you're saying that you want him instead of Ribeiro.

If we determined we aren't going to keep Ribeiro, then I agree we should pursue O'Reilly. But I don't think it's worth the assets to acquire O'Reilly when we have an internal option that has proven to be very highly effective in our current system. Especially if you could put those same assets (including the cap space) towards filling a higher priority vacancy.

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02-14-2013, 12:23 PM
  #886
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Let Poti, Crabb, Wolski, Hammer walk or try and get rid of at the trade deadline. Buyout Schultz and get a decent top 6 winger.

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02-14-2013, 12:23 PM
  #887
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Ribeiro and O'Reilly would look nice together.

All of Ribeiro's faceoff and defensive woes instantly mitigated just like that.

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:23 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Can I borrow your copy of NHL 13?
Speculation? If you've got nothing nice to say don't say nothin' at all.

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:25 PM
  #889
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I don't see how paying O'Reilly 4.5 (or even 5) is a hold-up when we're paying Laich 4.5 to be significantly worse at hockey.

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:26 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by The Gr8 Eight View Post
Let Poti, Crabb, Wolski, Hammer walk or try and get rid of at the trade deadline. Buyout Schultz and get a decent top 6 winger.
Only one more season of Schultz before UFA. No reason to buy him out and have his cap hit stick around for longer. If you really need to ditch him, put him on waivers and hope someone bites.

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02-14-2013, 12:27 PM
  #891
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Thats good to hear. I hope he is as much of a **** stirrer as Lucic is. We seriously need someone with an edge on offense.

Can the kid score?
We've needed a player like that since Dino left.

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02-14-2013, 12:30 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
I don't see how paying O'Reilly 4.5 (or even 5) is a hold-up when we're paying Laich 4.5 to be significantly worse at hockey.
Laich is a darn good hockey player and a key part of the team.

He is just the next in the line of whipping boys now that Green is currently playing well.

I have observed many on these message boards (other fans included) tend to overvalue their prospects. I have also seen many undervalue their own players.

Philly fans for the last couple years had been looking for ways to get rid of Hartnell and Briere. Two guys who happen to have performed exceptionally well for them and sans Hartnell there is a big gap on that team right now. Thats just one example.

Rangers fans wanted to find a way to get rid of Dubinsky. One year the guy was untouchable and the next year he was included in every one of their trade proposals. Next year I am sure they will want a way to dump Nash.

Its easy to take what you have for granite. Alexander Semin is a fine example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IafrateOvie34 View Post
We've needed a player like that since Dino left.
A case could be made that Konowalchuk filled that role to an extent. But either way it would be nice to have a Hartnell or Lucic type. Troy Brouwer has decent hands speed and is a good hitter. But he doesn't agitate like those guys.

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02-14-2013, 12:34 PM
  #893
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If O'Reilly would sign for 4.5 do you really think he would still be holding out?
Players missing this much of a season to holdout have pretty bad track records of under producing across all sports

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02-14-2013, 12:35 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Ribeiro and O'Reilly would look nice together.

All of Ribeiro's faceoff and defensive woes instantly mitigated just like that.
So move Ribeiro to the wing and hope there is no drop-off in his play. What could possibly go wrong...?

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02-14-2013, 12:37 PM
  #895
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So move Ribeiro to the wing and hope there is no drop-off in his play. What could possibly go wrong...?
I think he/she meant...like together as in merged together?

Maybe?

I dunno.

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02-14-2013, 12:38 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
If O'Reilly would sign for 4.5 do you really think he would still be holding out?
Players missing this much of a season to holdout have pretty bad track records of under producing across all sports
Well if you were going to hold out this is the year to do it since you were only going to get 59% of your cash anyway.

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:39 PM
  #897
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Laich is a darn good hockey player and a key part of the team.

He is just the next in the line of whipping boys now that Green is currently playing well.

I have observed many on these message boards (other fans included) tend to overvalue their prospects. I have also seen many undervalue their own players.

Philly fans for the last couple years had been looking for ways to get rid of Hartnell and Briere. Two guys who happen to have performed exceptionally well for them and sans Hartnell there is a big gap on that team right now. Thats just one example.

Rangers fans wanted to find a way to get rid of Dubinsky. One year the guy was untouchable and the next year he was included in every one of their trade proposals. Next year I am sure they will want a way to dump Nash.

Its easy to take what you have for granite. Alexander Semin is a fine example.



A case could be made that Konowalchuk filled that role to an extent. But either way it would be nice to have a Hartnell or Lucic type. Troy Brouwer has decent hands speed and is a good hitter. But he doesn't agitate like those guys.
Laich is a "good" player. O'Reilly is a "better" player, at a much younger age too. Between the two of them O'Reilly really is a no-brainer in every way, unless you consider community service to be the #1 indicator of whether a player should be on your team like CCF does. Even then I'm sure O'Reilly has a big heart.

There's a huge difference between Laich and Semin, Briere and Hartnell. Laich is a bloody 10ESG a season tweener who has never had a season in which he was exceptional offensively, defensively or physically. He's not even a particularly solid utility winger since he doesn't have a mean/physical streak or good hitting/board battle ability required for that role. His biggest claim to usefulness is "versatility". Well, O'Reilly is pretty damn versatile too.

Dubinsky has been pretty underwhelming for a while now, but at least he's a pretty good fighter for a top 6 player.

Is being a "key cog" on a team with our recent playoff history supposed to be a compliment?

Horton and Clowe don't particularly agitate. Horton himself is quite overrated and not really a guy I'd go to as a first choice, especially considering he'd cost north of 5. Clowe does have some agitator tendencies, but he's mostly a great guy to have to protect your agitators, like how Lucic/Chara/Thornton/McQuaid protect Marchand and Getzlaf protects Perry.

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02-14-2013, 12:40 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
So move Ribeiro to the wing and hope there is no drop-off in his play. What could possibly go wrong...?
No, have O'Reilly take draws for him like we had Brouwer.

Forgot that on this forum everything needs to be spelled out.

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:41 PM
  #899
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I think its pretty obvious that Ribeiro should be resigned.

I like O'Reilly...but sign the guy thats obviously a decent fit. Finally.
AGREED.

Backstrom/Ribeiro is pretty solid. Focus on getting skilled wingers and a solid top 4 LD.

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02-14-2013, 12:41 PM
  #900
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O'Rielly is a bum.. Just another Wolski.

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