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Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

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Old
02-14-2013, 11:21 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Un****ing real. Just unreal. You take out Kreider for Boyle. Back to being a talentless hockey team that grinds their way to 2-1 wins. Yes that's an exaggeration, but Brian Boyle should not be a top 9 player on a good team. Bottom line. I have lost a lot of respect for Torts. Seriously, guys like Boyle are everything that was wrong with last year's team.
Poor handling of Krieder imo. Just as he's starting to get more ice time, he's scratched? why not scratch Halpern for Boyle and put Boyle on the 4th line where he belongs.

We need Krieder's confidence up, because he has the potential to score goals. Wasn't that the point?
He's supposed to be filling in the scoring on wing, how can he find his game in the NHL if Torts doesn't give him ice time.

Torts stock continues to drop....

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02-14-2013, 11:25 AM
  #227
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I'm not upset with the decision per se dice Kreids hasn't been great, but I am getting a little frustrated with te Rangers handling of Kreider.

Either keep him in the AHL or roll with the punches. No need for the hot/cold rattling of his confidence. Though obviously it's on him to work through that.

Do like Miller on the wing. He looked a little gassed vs Boston. Playing wing will allow him to conserve a bit of energy.

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Old
02-14-2013, 11:32 AM
  #228
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So much for that line.

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Old
02-14-2013, 11:32 AM
  #229
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IMO Miller had one really good game. Boston was pretty brutal for him. Look Its obvious he is one of Torts favorites now but i hate that kreider pays the price for that

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02-14-2013, 11:47 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
The problem is that he looks 100 times better in the NHL than the AHL. Kenny G just doesn't get the most out of young guys. Even Kreider looks better in the NHL, though still not great. We need a better coach down there.
I agree entirely that he looks better in the NHL. I thought he was nowhere near ready for a call up originally. We do need a better coach in the AHL. KG is a solid defensive coach, but the lack of offensive game some of these kids have shown is a little alarming.

Still, if Miller is going to be a defensive liability, he can't be in the lineup. At least not as a center.

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02-14-2013, 12:06 PM
  #231
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I agree entirely that he looks better in the NHL. I thought he was nowhere near ready for a call up originally. We do need a better coach in the AHL. KG is a solid defensive coach, but the lack of offensive game some of these kids have shown is a little alarming.

Still, if Miller is going to be a defensive liability, he can't be in the lineup. At least not as a center.

What's the deal with forcing him to be a center, come hell or holy fire? He's so much better as a wing.

We also have more need for an LW than a C. We presently have Brad, Step and Boyle as long-term centers (unless we choose to trade them away). We also have Nieves, Lindberg and Jean (plus lower prospects like Yogan and Fogarty, as well as St. Croix, who may be either a C or an RW), so our center position will be filled beautifully for at least half a decade to come.

But at LW, we have just the prospects and rookies Hagelin, Kreider and Hrivik. Miller would have a much easier time making an impact.

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:11 PM
  #232
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Baffling news about Kreider

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:13 PM
  #233
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Uhh if it ruins our winning streak then it can have a HUGE impact; this team's psyche is so fragile...
What? I'd hardly say that's close to accurate. First of all, if the streak ends tonight and it was directly due to this move (CK for Boyle) the team is in BIG trouble. Secondly, how did you come to the conclusion that this team has a fragile psyche? They've shown to be anything but fragile.

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:27 PM
  #234
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1 G
1 A
+4

In 4 games since returning from injury.

And the scoring chances he set up that weren't finished.

He needs to shoot more. But he needs the puck more to do that. He needs a center that can get him the puck consistently. Richards.

This is on the coaching staff not understanding how to maximize certain players' strengths. And masking weaknesses.

Richards needs a scorer to feed. Kreider needs a center like Richards to get him the puck. They would need a guy to win battles on the boards and down low. Richards shouldn't be below the hashes as much as he is.

Gaborik is lazy as ****. He won't ever fight for a puck. He needs a guy to get him the puck. Stepan and Gaborik played their best hockey together last year. Gaborik should NOT be on the left side, he's brutal there. Give those two a guy who wins battles on the boards.

Nash and Haglein have natural chemistry.

Put Miller with guys who can mask his weaknesses while he learns.

Do the ****ing math, Torts.

Pyatt-Stepan-Gaborik
Hagelin-Miller-Nash
Kreider-Richards-Callahan
Powe-Halpern-Boyle

Roll three scoring lines.

How hard is it to come up with lines that make ****ing sense?

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02-14-2013, 12:33 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
1 G
1 A
+4

In 4 games since returning from injury.

And the scoring chances he set up that weren't finished.

He needs to shoot more. But he needs the puck more to do that. He needs a center that can get him the puck consistently. Richards.

This is on the coaching staff not understanding how to maximize certain players' strengths. And masking weaknesses.

Richards needs a scorer to feed. Kreider needs a center like Richards to get him the puck. They would need a guy to win battles on the boards and down low. Richards shouldn't be below the hashes as much as he is.

Gaborik is lazy as ****. He won't ever fight for a puck. He needs a guy to get him the puck. Stepan and Gaborik played their best hockey together last year. Gaborik should NOT be on the left side, he's brutal there. Give those two a guy who wins battles on the boards.

Nash and Haglein have natural chemistry.

Put Miller with guys who can mask his weaknesses while he learns.

Do the ****ing math, Torts.

Pyatt-Stepan-Gaborik
Hagelin-Miller-Nash
Kreider-Richards-Callahan
Powe-Halpern-Boyle

Roll three scoring lines.

How hard is it to come up with lines that make ****ing sense?
Kreider needs to be more assertive. That's most likely what this is all about. He needs to stop thinking so much and worrying about his play and just play the game. Mistakes will happen, but if he is playing tentative, it won't work.

It's part of the process.

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02-14-2013, 12:37 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Kreider needs to be more assertive. That's most likely what this is all about. He needs to stop thinking so much and worrying about his play and just play the game. Mistakes will happen, but if he is playing tentative, it won't work.

It's part of the process.
Yeah, part of the process is also not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Just like we can't expect Gaborik to move his feet like he gives two *****. We can't expect Kreider to be a selke nomination and a 3rd-4th line mucker below the hash marks.

Put him in a position to succeed, with the kind of players that mix well with the kind of player he is.

That's also part of the "process".

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:41 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Yeah, part of the process is also not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Just like we can't expect Gaborik to move his feet like he gives two *****. We can't expect Kreider to be a selke nomination and a 3rd-4th line mucker below the hash marks.

Put him in a position to succeed, with the kind of players that mix well with the kind of player he is.

That's also part of the "process".
The Kreider-Miller-Callahan line was not a mucker line. You just want to throw him up on the top-2 lines even though he hasn't shown any consistency all season. And I am not just talking about the NHL but also the AHL.

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02-14-2013, 12:42 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
What's the deal with forcing him to be a center, come hell or holy fire? He's so much better as a wing.

We also have more need for an LW than a C. We presently have Brad, Step and Boyle as long-term centers (unless we choose to trade them away). We also have Nieves, Lindberg and Jean (plus lower prospects like Yogan and Fogarty, as well as St. Croix, who may be either a C or an RW), so our center position will be filled beautifully for at least half a decade to come.

But at LW, we have just the prospects and rookies Hagelin, Kreider and Hrivik. Miller would have a much easier time making an impact.
Preaching to the choir. I know people have been saying he's a center since he was drafted, but I think he's better on the wing. If the organization is certain he's a center, then why not go the Seguin route with him? Pair him with a defensively responsible center who can take draws, and ease him into it over the course of the year. Reduce the learning curve a little bit.

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:42 PM
  #239
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Kreider definitely plays tentative out there. He needs to take charge out there. He's a big guy with speed, but you'd never know it from watching him these past games.

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02-14-2013, 12:42 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The Kreider-Miller-Callahan line was not a mucker line. You just want to throw him up on the top-2 lines even though he hasn't shown any consistency all season. And I am not just talking about the NHL but also the AHL.
I'd argue that he was consistent in the AHL

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:49 PM
  #241
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Id imagine Kreider's defensive and neutral zone play have pissed off Torts so far this season. In a couple of words its not good.

To compound the issue, for such a big body he hasnt been consistently assertive in the offensive zone. Hes a big strong dude, yet he has a tendency to float.

The defense issue will improve with experience. The other issue is squarely on Kreider and theres nothing better to remind someone they need to play hard every shift than to take a seat in the pressbox.

He'll be back when they likely send Miller down.

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02-14-2013, 12:54 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Kreider needs to be more assertive. That's most likely what this is all about. He needs to stop thinking so much and worrying about his play and just play the game. Mistakes will happen, but if he is playing tentative, it won't work.

It's part of the process.
I think this is certainly the thought process (no pun intended). And, while selfishly I'd prefer to watch Kreider and see how he does, I understand why the coaching staff is doing it. As someone said a couple of days ago, Miller is playing to stick and Kreider is playing not to be sent down. He needs to be kickstarted into more aggression.

The risk is the player's psyche - is he the type who will respond to this? Or will he lose confidence? Hoping that the coaching staff has his pulse right.

Very curious to see how this plays out. Don't forget that burning a year on Miller's contract kicks in if he plays another game after this one. Maybe this is his last hurrah and we see Kreids next game with Miller being sent back?

The most important thing? DON'T SEND KREIDER DOWN. What we do know is that KG kills offensive prospects. Miller IMO would be more inured to going down given his game, (what we know about) his personality and what he surely knows about his contractual situation.

My personal hope is that at the end of the day what we see is both Krieder and Miller playing with the guy in the pressbox rotating between Halpern, Asham and Boyle.

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Old
02-14-2013, 01:01 PM
  #243
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Id imagine Kreider's defensive and neutral zone play have pissed off Torts so far this season. In a couple of words its not good.

To compound the issue, for such a big body he hasnt been consistently assertive in the offensive zone. Hes a big strong dude, yet he has a tendency to float.

The defense issue will improve with experience. The other issue is squarely on Kreider and theres nothing better to remind someone they need to play hard every shift than to take a seat in the pressbox.

He'll be back when they likely send Miller down.
I don't think that's happening. That doesn't help the Rangers. Brian Boyle cannot be your 3rd line center. Sorry.

And I'm not so sure it's better for Miller to play tons of minutes in the AHL vs limited--put him in situations he can succeed.....in the NHL.

You can still develop Miller and have him with the Rangers.

I don't really care that he had a bad game against Boston. That's going to happen. Overall, he has not looked out of place at all.

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02-14-2013, 01:07 PM
  #244
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I don't think that's happening. That doesn't help the Rangers. Brian Boyle cannot be your 3rd line center. Sorry.
I think you're about to be disappointed.

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Old
02-14-2013, 02:15 PM
  #245
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I don't think that's happening. That doesn't help the Rangers. Brian Boyle cannot be your 3rd line center. Sorry.

And I'm not so sure it's better for Miller to play tons of minutes in the AHL vs limited--put him in situations he can succeed.....in the NHL.

You can still develop Miller and have him with the Rangers.

I don't really care that he had a bad game against Boston. That's going to happen. Overall, he has not looked out of place at all.
Except for the last game against a tougher team when the adrenaline started wearing off.

Boyle can be the 3rd line center if the top 6 do their job offensively

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Old
02-14-2013, 02:28 PM
  #246
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Except for the last game against a tougher team when the adrenaline started wearing off.

Boyle can be the 3rd line center if the top 6 do their job offensively
Beating a top Conference team on away ice is of course not a bad result IMO. Miller looked gassed at times, and Kreider lost & tentative. I like the logjam here. It will spur better play of whoever sits when they get a chance. Otoh this is part of the proceess for the rookies. I would also think that this gets put to the test a bit more after this game when the final decision is made on Miller. If Boyle is on the 4th line, he and that line can be used more at even strength play and PK time for Boyle. If the rookies develop and contribute more on offense, then we are getting something we most likely will not see from Boyle up front again.

I think Boyle is an important piece of this team and identity to make it succeed, but if he gets moved down to the 4th line cuz the kids are better, than it is all the better as it also means we most likely are a much better functioning team. I think icing Boyle on the 4th line really shows we are a contender. I would not mind seeing this next year either... The cap hit is a bit high for this - but I can see beyond that because that will not be decisive in retaining the RFAs next year anyways... Creates great depth and a good identity.

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02-14-2013, 02:33 PM
  #247
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Beating a top Conference team on away ice is of course not a bad result IMO. Miller looked gassed at times, and Kreider lost & tentative. I like the logjam here. It will spur better play of whoever sits when they get a chance. Otoh this is part of the proceess for the rookies. I would also think that this gets put to the test a bit more after this game when the final decision is made on Miller. If Boyle is on the 4th line, he and that line can be used more at even strength play and PK time for Boyle. If the rookies develop and contribute more on offense, then we are getting something we most likely will not see from Boyle up front again.

I think Boyle is an important piece of this team and identity to make it succeed, but if he gets moved down to the 4th line cuz the kids are better, than it is all the better as it also means we most likely are a much better functioning team. I think icing Boyle on the 4th line really shows we are a contender. I would not mind seeing this next year either... The cap hit is a bit high for this - but I can see beyond that because that will not be decisive in retaining the RFAs next year anyways... Creates great depth and a good identity.
I keep hearing people say kreider was tentative/lost but i didnt see that. In fact he played more physical last game. He also should have had a goal. it doesnt help when your shifts are so brief.

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Old
02-14-2013, 02:33 PM
  #248
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Yeah, part of the process is also not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Just like we can't expect Gaborik to move his feet like he gives two *****. We can't expect Kreider to be a selke nomination and a 3rd-4th line mucker below the hash marks.

Put him in a position to succeed, with the kind of players that mix well with the kind of player he is.

That's also part of the "process".
And SSM, just so you know, you and I are on the same page when it comes to Kreider. I think he has a very high ceiling. But I am not in favor of just handing young players large roles. They need to earn them.

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02-14-2013, 02:36 PM
  #249
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And SSM, just so you know, you and I are on the same page when it comes to Kreider. I think he has a very high ceiling. But I am not in favor of just handing young players large roles. They need to earn them.
The kid is doing a good job. I mean he is sacrificing to try and fit into the defensive system. In my opinion both his defense and his passing has improved a lot.

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02-14-2013, 02:40 PM
  #250
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The kid is doing a good job. I mean he is sacrificing to try and fit into the defensive system. In my opinion both his defense and his passing has improved a lot.
Yep, I won't argue that. You can tell it isn't a lack of effort, he just isn't letting himself naturally do things yet. He did the same thing at BC his first year or 2.

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