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We lost 106 points of offense and replaced it with L. Schenn

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Old
02-14-2013, 01:44 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
That's what happens when you have a young team and live in a salary cap era. You couldn't hide these young players anymore and for them to develop they needed to get an expanded role. Quite frankly its better to do that then to handcuff the team in the future with guys who aren't even worth the money they got in the open market. If these young forwards continue to developed then the flyers are set for the future. Now its time to start rebuilding the pipeline of prospects with defenseman.
seriously, do you even follow homer's draft since 06? he never once drafted an impact defensemen, what makes you think he will now? i dont even trust his actions anymore.

if this team had an impact players around young players i can deal with that but thinking that with all of these young players will just become impact players, that's big risk, there's nothing about these players that will replace the scoring.

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02-14-2013, 02:00 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
seriously, do you even follow homer's draft since 06? he never once drafted an impact defensemen, what makes you think he will now? i dont even trust his actions anymore.

if this team had an impact players around young players i can deal with that but thinking that with all of these young players will just become impact players, that's big risk, there's nothing about these players that will replace the scoring.
Do i follow? No i don't. I just post on these boards just to post. Sbisa was the last defenseman drafted in the first round. He was used as a good chip to get Pronger. He's a very valuable member of the Ducks with some good upside. Drafted in the lower first. Flyers draft on BPA. If a defenseman is that one on the board you take it. That's what they did with Sbisa.

Then your second statement. [mod] Seriously how does a impact player become one? At some point in their career they were young players learning their way into the NHL. I get that its not all guaranteed but 29 other teams take that risk as well. That's why their is developmental programs in all NHL franchises. Also i'm assuming you are saying this team has no impact players. Is Giroux not one?


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02-14-2013, 02:04 PM
  #28
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I agree that there are flaws with how the D is constructed. I agree 100% with that and that's homer's problem.

However, given the situation the team was in last offseason, there wasn't a way to retain those points in terms of scoring and still keep this team viable long term.

Everyone needs to realize that this team at this point relies heavily on young players up front and to score. That is going to be a process that isn't going to look pretty all of the time from day one.

We either can struggle through the growing pains and look to fix the structure of the D for long term viability along the way, or we could have re-signed a guy like Carle for that contract, or made our spend on forwards higher with veteran players. I think Holmgren moved in the right direction in terms of smart contracts and trying to get quality young pieces on D.

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02-14-2013, 02:06 PM
  #29
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Also while us developing defenseman is questionable that's been a organizational problem. They have yet to hit on a defenseman in the later rounds. Scouting defenseman is a problem. I think they can very well draft a good d-man in the first if that's the guy they want but its the second round and later rounds that they have to start hitting more than missing.

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02-14-2013, 02:09 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Do i follow? No i don't. I just post on these boards just to post. Sbisa was the last defenseman drafted in the first round. He was used as a good chip to get Pronger. He's a very valuable member of the Ducks with some good upside. Drafted in the lower first. Flyers draft on BPA. If a defenseman is that one on the board you take it. That's what they did with Sbisa.

Then your second statement. I don't mean to be rude but are you slow? Seriously how does a impact player become one? At some point in their career they were young players learning their way into the NHL. I get that its not all guaranteed but 29 other teams take that risk as well. That's why their is developmental programs in all NHL franchises. Also i'm assuming you are saying this team has no impact players. Is Giroux not one?
it's almost like you dont want no experience players on this team accept unproven young players, how is that getting anywhere? i like for you to tell me what's so special about the young players, what makes them so much better than gagne, carter, richards? what is your obsession with them?

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02-14-2013, 02:16 PM
  #31
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I hate coming on here sometimes. Some people look at the numbers and are like omg we lost 100 points and only replaced it with Schenn. Yes, that was the reason we lost in the playoffs last season. Instead of moving laterally Homer tried to hit home runs. Look at the cap numbers, Retaining Carle was impossible at that cap hit. Yes, he played a sound role for the Flyers are they were better with him, he was often exposed in the playoffs, especially against the Devils. Jagr was in the same boat, sure he had a good regular season, in the playoffs he looked old and slow and was a detriment.

Flyers needed to stop getting pushed around on dumps and they made a trade JVR for Schenn. If Schenn plays to his potential, he is most would be a good fit and JVR has had many injury concerns.

The fact is, retaining Carle and Jagr would only leave the Flyers were they were last year and thats easy first round playoff fodder with Carle sucking up a huge cap hit where the Flyers would have to slash serious payroll.

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02-14-2013, 02:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
it's almost like you dont want no experience players on this team accept unproven young players, how is that getting anywhere? i like for you to tell me what's so special about the young players, what makes them so much better than gagne, carter, richards? what is your obsession with them?
What type of players do you see Schenn, Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, and Couturier becoming? Just curious.

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02-14-2013, 02:26 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
it's almost like you dont want no experience players on this team accept unproven young players, how is that getting anywhere? i like for you to tell me what's so special about the young players, what makes them so much better than gagne, carter, richards? what is your obsession with them?
Briere, Hartnell, Coburn, Timonen, Giroux, Talbot, and Fedetenko are all experienced players. Just to name some. So what the hell are you talking about?

What is your obsession of downplaying the young talent of the roster? What makes you think Schenn or Couturier wont develop? Hell even Matt Read. What is it that scares you that think this will be a colossal bust? What's the holes in their game that makes you think they wont succeed? I've always hear you with this doom and gloom but i have yet to see you put together a critical analysis of why these players will not reach their projected ceilings.

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02-14-2013, 02:28 PM
  #34
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Dude L. Schenn is going to have a 106 point season!

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02-14-2013, 02:30 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
What type of players do you see Schenn, Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, and Couturier becoming? Just curious.
i dont see anything out of these players, accept third and fourth line players nothing more.

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02-14-2013, 02:30 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
I hate coming on here sometimes. Some people look at the numbers and are like omg we lost 100 points and only replaced it with Schenn. Yes, that was the reason we lost in the playoffs last season. Instead of moving laterally Homer tried to hit home runs. Look at the cap numbers, Retaining Carle was impossible at that cap hit. Yes, he played a sound role for the Flyers are they were better with him, he was often exposed in the playoffs, especially against the Devils. Jagr was in the same boat, sure he had a good regular season, in the playoffs he looked old and slow and was a detriment.

Flyers needed to stop getting pushed around on dumps and they made a trade JVR for Schenn. If Schenn plays to his potential, he is most would be a good fit and JVR has had many injury concerns.

The fact is, retaining Carle and Jagr would only leave the Flyers were they were last year and thats easy first round playoff fodder with Carle sucking up a huge cap hit where the Flyers would have to slash serious payroll.
And losing Carle and Jagr and replacing them with Feds, Knuble, McGinn, expecting Talbot to have a similar year to last year, and expecting all of your second year players to improve pretty dramatically leaves us where exactly?

If we're going with a youth movement/re-tool phase, that's fine with me. I just don't know how much I trust Snider more so than Holmgren to allow this to happen without making a panic trade to "push us into contention".

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02-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
And losing Carle and Jagr and replacing them with Feds, Knuble, McGinn, expecting Talbot to have a similar year to last year, and expecting all of your second year players to improve pretty dramatically leaves us where exactly?

If we're going with a youth movement/re-tool phase, that's fine with me. I just don't know how much I trust Snider more so than Holmgren to allow this to happen without making a panic trade to "push us into contention".
It leaves the team with flexibility. I guess people are forgetting the RFAs soon to be up after next season.

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02-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
i dont see anything out of these players, accept third and fourth line players nothing more.
Okay that's all i needed to know.

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02-14-2013, 02:38 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
i dont see anything out of these players, accept third and fourth line players nothing more.
You can not be serious?

Every single one of those players doesn't have it in them to be second liners...... Simmonds is already there. Voracek is there too, and he is also leading the Flyers in scoring. Just because they are not 90 point franchise players, doesn't mean they are 3rd liners. Coots and Schenn are still on the up rise. Look at Schenn, probably playing the best hockey of his young career. He is second on the team in scoring, and still is developing. Couts is 19/20 year old in the NHL, he is still growing. He contributes on defense when not producing on offense, which makes him extremely valuable.

I actually see Schenn having the most potential out of all of our young players

Schenn: 80 point two way player(very similar to Richards, just more skilled)
Coots:70-80 point center potential, maybe more if his skating increases.(Has a great work ethic, and improved his skating this off season)
Voracek: 60-65 good second line player. (right now he is playing like that. Leading our team in scoring)
Simmonds:50-60 point player(provides everything you want in a 2nd line winger. Grit, good hands in close, and can skate among many others)
Luke Schenn: He has been extremely impressive since the trade. He has all the potential to be a shut down stud while contributing 20-25 points per year. Has a great shot too, needs to use it more frequently.

What were your thoughts about Richards on his huge sophomore slump? Did you call him a bust as well?

Also those point totals are their max potential I feel.


Last edited by Prongo: 02-14-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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02-14-2013, 02:43 PM
  #40
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So you would have been cool giving Jagr and Carle those contracts? I would rather have retained both of them than gotten nothing, but that's $10 mil in cap space right there. Who fills out the rest of the roster?

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02-14-2013, 02:45 PM
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And losing Carle and Jagr and replacing them with Feds, Knuble, McGinn, expecting Talbot to have a similar year to last year, and expecting all of your second year players to improve pretty dramatically leaves us where exactly?

If we're going with a youth movement/re-tool phase, that's fine with me. I just don't know how much I trust Snider more so than Holmgren to allow this to happen without making a panic trade to "push us into contention".
I think it was a "Weber, Parise, Suter type FA" or re-tool phase. I know Homer gets bashed, but this roster now is pretty similar to what it was last year. If Giroux was having the season he was last year the Flyers would be sitting 5-8 range now. I have faith the Flyers wont trade a first this season. He did stick to his guns last season and kept his first which was Laughton, who looks pretty good. When he traded Carter actually kept the 8th overall pick instead of moving it. I honestly think in this season is going to be what you see is what you get. If anything I think the Flyers are going to be sellers as in Breire and Meszaros. If they go on a hot streak then I'd say they might try to move some later picks for defensive upgrades in the bottom paring.

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02-14-2013, 02:45 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
i dont see anything out of these players, accept third and fourth line players nothing more.
Wow, third and fourth line 25 goal scorers. I wish we had a whole team of these kinds of fourth liners!

Dude are you serious?!

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02-14-2013, 02:48 PM
  #43
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You can not be serious?

Every single one of those players doesn't have it in them to be second liners...... Simmonds is already there. Voracek is there too, and he is also leading the Flyers in scoring. Just because they are not 90 point franchise players, doesn't mean they are 3rd liners. Coots and Schenn are still on the up rise. Look at Schenn, probably playing the best hockey of his young career. He is second on the team in scoring, and still is developing. Couts is 19/20 year old in the NHL, he is still growing. He contributes on defense when not producing on offense, which makes him extremely valuable.

I actually see Schenn having the most potential out of all of our young players

Schenn: 80 point two way player(very similar to Richards, just more skilled)
Coots:70-80 point center potential, maybe more if his skating increases.(Has a great work ethic, and improved his skating this off season)
Voracek: 60-65 good second line center. (right now he is playing like that. Leading our team in scoring)
Simmonds:50-60 point player(provides everything you want in a 2nd line winger. Grit, good hands in close, and can skate among many others)
Luke Schenn: He has been extremely impressive since the trade. He has all the potential to be a shut down stud while contributing 20-25 points per year. Has a great shot too, needs to use it more frequently.

What were your thoughts about Richards on his huge sophomore slump? Did you call him a bust as well?

Also those point totals are their max potential I feel.

you are so high on these players like they are next lindros and leclair, dude, get a grip and look what this team is now, they are not good team, do you see that or is it about man crushes on these players?

the only player that is playing good is bryz, the rest is trash.

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02-14-2013, 02:54 PM
  #44
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you are so high on these players like they are next lindros and leclair, dude, get a grip and look what this team is now, they are not good team, do you see that or is it about man crushes on these players?

the only player that is playing good is bryz, the rest is trash.
Are you serious... These 19-25 year old kids are trash.... John Leclair struggled for most of 3 years in Montreal, so you thought he was probably trash too.

I am not alone with the "man crush" I have with these players either. Scouts, other teams fans, and media love the potential in them. I fear you think every player will come right into the NHL and develop into a big time star with in the first 2 months. Your outlook on these kids is just poor, and it seems like you really don't know how to evaluate young talent in the league. I am not a scout or anything close to that, but these kids all have shown they can be very successful players in the league. What do you say about Schenn's play over the last 5 or so games, and Voraceks? They are two players currently leading the Flyers in scoring, and you still throw them under the bus. You never give an viable reason why they will not become good players.

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02-14-2013, 02:55 PM
  #45
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Well just think....if that Jags poster from last year would have been right and Jagr had gotten 106 pts all by his lonesome and won the Art Ross like he predicted...Flyers would be down double the points

BTW...word of advice..ignore toughfighter...he is an obvious troll.

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02-14-2013, 02:58 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
it's almost like you dont want no experience players on this team accept unproven young players, how is that getting anywhere? i like for you to tell me what's so special about the young players, what makes them so much better than gagne, carter, richards? what is your obsession with them?
How did you read his post and determine he doesn't want experienced players, or determine that he's obsessed with anybody?

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02-14-2013, 03:01 PM
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Wow, third and fourth line 25 goal scorers. I wish we had a whole team of these kinds of fourth liners!

Dude are you serious?!
Yeah, if your team is so good that Simmonds and Voracek are on the 4th line...congrats! You'll probably win every Cup for 5 years. That, or you're coaching the Eastern Conference team in the All Star Game.

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02-14-2013, 03:06 PM
  #48
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i dont see anything out of these players, accept third and fourth line players nothing more.
well they're already more then that so...

at most you could say if Couturier doesn't improve he's a 3rd liner everyone else has already shown they can be top 6 players (if you prorate B Schenn's numbers since he had injury issues last yr). Name a team that has 3rd and 4th liner like that.


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02-14-2013, 03:06 PM
  #49
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Yeah, if your team is so good that Simmonds and Voracek are on the 4th line...congrats! You'll probably win every Cup for 5 years. That, or you're coaching the Eastern Conference team in the All Star Game.
Some people should just stick to calling in to WIP, where the hosts wouldn't know any better.

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02-14-2013, 03:08 PM
  #50
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Well just think....if that Jags poster from last year would have been right and Jagr had gotten 106 pts all by his lonesome and won the Art Ross like he predicted...Flyers would be down double the points

BTW...word of advice..ignore toughfighter...he is an obvious troll.

yeah well, tell me that when this team cup losing streak hits 50 years.

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