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Old
02-14-2013, 12:54 PM
  #901
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
Don't totally agree with you as this team isn't massively different compared to last year. Sure we lost Jagr and Carle but if we can add a sniper and/or a D-Man at the deadline and Bryz is stellar I believe we can do damage. Mez and Hartnell are injured and G has disappeared. If the Kings can do it so can we.

That being said, I don't think we will do any of that. I think we'll barely make the playoffs and lose in the first round unfortunately.
It's pretty different, no offense. We lost a lot of offense and transition game in Jagr, Carle, and JVR. Losing them by itself isn't bad but the fact that we didn't replace what they brought in any manner whatsoever is what hurts. All we brought in is a defensive d in Luke Schenn and essentially a non factor in Fedotenko. That's 106 points gone and that's with JVR missing half the season. That's our best winger, a top six winger, and our best offensive d and Homer brought in...Luke Schenn...a defensive d.

We also lost Bobrovsky and brought in Leighton and Boucher...speaks for itself.

Plus our only offensive d is a year older, those moves cost us our winger depth, and our young guns are forced into being relied on for scoring.

None of the above is smart. Acquiring a short term piece would be stupid and even if we do wereclikely not to go far.

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02-14-2013, 01:25 PM
  #902
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I hate Matt Cooke, but I don't think what he did was intentional.

**** happens in hockey, it's a fast paced game and **** just happens. People want to blame someone because the person who got injured was Erik Karlsson. This is exactly like the Crosby/Steckel incident at the Winter Classic. Everyone's going to be divided about it and debate endlessly on whether or not that incident was intentional.

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02-14-2013, 01:29 PM
  #903
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It was a reckless play though, no need to raise your skate off the ice and shove your knee in a guy's ass

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02-14-2013, 01:31 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
It's pretty different, no offense. We lost a lot of offense and transition game in Jagr, Carle, and JVR. Losing them by itself isn't bad but the fact that we didn't replace what they brought in any manner whatsoever is what hurts. All we brought in is a defensive d in Luke Schenn and essentially a non factor in Fedotenko. That's 106 points gone and that's with JVR missing half the season. That's our best winger, a top six winger, and our best offensive d and Homer brought in...Luke Schenn...a defensive d.

We also lost Bobrovsky and brought in Leighton and Boucher...speaks for itself.

Plus our only offensive d is a year older, those moves cost us our winger depth, and our young guns are forced into being relied on for scoring.

None of the above is smart. Acquiring a short term piece would be stupid and even if we do wereclikely not to go far.
Salary cap dude.

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02-14-2013, 01:36 PM
  #905
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It was a reckless play though, no need to raise your skate off the ice and shove your knee in a guy's ass
Yes. I wanna say it wasn't intentional but why was he doing that with his skate?

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Old
02-14-2013, 01:38 PM
  #906
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Salary cap dude.
Who's the one responsible for not only working around that, but put us up against the cap? Can't make a poorly constructed team up against the cap then cop out by saying salary cap. He's the one who made the team and put himself there.

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02-14-2013, 02:09 PM
  #907
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Who's the one responsible for not only working around that, but put us up against the cap? Can't make a poorly constructed team up against the cap then cop out by saying salary cap. He's the one who made the team and put himself there.
I think Holmgren is a bad GM, but I am glad he didnt pay Carle 5.5 mil

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02-14-2013, 03:43 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by drownedsailors View Post
I hate Matt Cooke, but I don't think what he did was intentional.

**** happens in hockey, it's a fast paced game and **** just happens. People want to blame someone because the person who got injured was Erik Karlsson. This is exactly like the Crosby/Steckel incident at the Winter Classic. Everyone's going to be divided about it and debate endlessly on whether or not that incident was intentional.
To play Lou Lamoriello's advocate, and since we all enjoy the benefit of frame-by-frame dissection, what gets me is that Cooke looks to be in full control and not out of balance. He is skating towards Karlsson, hits a rut with his left skate (Penguin fans' explanation #1), but this only causes a slight wiggle in his skate and no visible effect to his right skate/leg or rest of his body. He continues with Karlsson towards the boards and there is contact. Cooke goes up and to the right ... up and to the right ... up and to the right ... sorry, I went Oliver Stone for a minute there. But with the contact, his right leg stays rigid and is firmly planted; there is no (apparent) loss of centre of gravity that would cause Cooke to reflexively lift his left leg to regain equilibrium.

After contact, the two go to the boards, and Cooke brings his leg up high enough to go knee-on-prostate to complete his check. According to several on the main boards (Penguin fans' explanation #2), the flamingo check is standard practice that is drilled into players from Atom forward, and happens all the time in the NHL.

In our gravity-dependent world, the leg has to come down, and Cooke brings his skate down as a completely logical counteraction to having had it in the air for a couple of seconds (Penguin fans' explanation #3). The more I look at it, however, Cooke's skate doesn't come down with any degree of urgency to regain balance; it stops at the top of Karlsson's boot, then Cooke brings it towards him (ever so slightly lifting it) and puts it down on the ice. The pathway (and I know I'm dangling over the conspiracy theory line with this vocabulary) of his skate from up in the air to Karlsson's Achilles tendon to the ice is in no way a direct line or even an arc, as one may expect.

Okay, that being said, I would judge it a reckless inadvertent play that deserved 1 game to send a message about keeping your dangerous gear in check. Thank you for your patience as I redon my tinfoil helmet.

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:14 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Who's the one responsible for not only working around that, but put us up against the cap? Can't make a poorly constructed team up against the cap then cop out by saying salary cap. He's the one who made the team and put himself there.
Agreed, but it's also not a valid reason to exasperate the problem given the stage we are at now. Need to take our lumps

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02-14-2013, 04:19 PM
  #910
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Cooke was trying a slew-foot and missed. Hopefully Malkin doesn't get any ideas or else the Pens will finish #1 in the conference by default.

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02-14-2013, 04:22 PM
  #911
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Agreed, but it's also not a valid reason to exasperate the problem given the stage we are at now. Need to take our lumps
I agree I'm just tired of this "fire the coach, trade the players" mentality when Homer is completely responsible here.

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:55 PM
  #912
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It looks to me like his intention was to upend Karlsson over his left leg by lifting Karlsson's right leg while simultaneously trying to leverage his upper body in front of Karlsson's right shoulder and bring him down that way but he failed and went into the boards.
Interestingly enough, that's exactly what he was trying to do... watch from :10 seconds in to :15 seconds, that's him doing the same move.


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02-14-2013, 05:12 PM
  #913
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I agree I'm just tired of this "fire the coach, trade the players" mentality when Homer is completely responsible here.

Why do you think this team is due to failure? You seem so worried about its construction when they're 4-1-1 in their last 6 and trending upward. Why don't you wait before you start freaking out. This GM has taken a team from dead last to the ECF the final next year. Then the SCF 2 years later and into the playoffs the last couple years. If things get real bad THAN you fire him. You don't fire a winning GM while the team is winning. And no, a 13 game sample size isn't enough to become a losing team.


[mod]


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 02-14-2013 at 05:38 PM. Reason: nope
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Old
02-14-2013, 05:32 PM
  #914
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[mod]

The team won't do any major damage, it's a transition year and we need the young guys to get as much experience and progression and hope for the best. Holmgren is a mediocre GM, but he tried to fill our glaring need (#1 D man) by trying to get Weber and trying to get Suter, but he missed out. Schenn is a good piece moving forward and can become a # 2 D man, but we still need a #1 D man to replace Timonen. The scoring will come as B.Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, etc become more consistent players, but our biggest need is D


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 02-14-2013 at 05:38 PM. Reason: qdp
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Old
02-14-2013, 06:08 PM
  #915
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Edit: hmmmm scratch that. After looking at the video a couple more times, 'hockey play that went bad' sounds about right.


Last edited by drownedsailors: 02-14-2013 at 07:29 PM.
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Old
02-14-2013, 06:51 PM
  #916
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the shot deflected off a stick, hit the back glass, then bounced off the goalie's back
Yup, thanks for the correction. I'm really blind considering I watched the video three times and everytime I saw something different....

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Old
02-14-2013, 08:42 PM
  #917
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Watching the Lightning game right now reminds me how much I don't miss Carle.

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Old
02-14-2013, 09:17 PM
  #918
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What's he doing?

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02-14-2013, 09:22 PM
  #919
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What's he doing?
Not much after he didn't hussle after a turnover....he got benched or at least it seemed that way. Bobby Taylor mentioned it too...

Anyway...it's typical Carle...dude still leads the team in minutes..so he's always going to be prone to a breakdown here and there. Nothing new.....we still could have used him and Holmgren could have handled that situation better as noted by Meltzer in previous threads where I quoted him on the issue. But yeah that 6th year he got from Tampa was the killer but only after Holmgren let Carle stew and publicly stated he could get a home team discount like a dope...

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Old
02-14-2013, 09:26 PM
  #920
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I was listening to the game on the radio for a bit. I heard him have a couple good breakout passes for quick transition into the offensive zone, then I heard him take two shots and it sounded like each time they ended TB's offensive pressure. One was blocked, typically. Sounds about right.

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02-14-2013, 09:29 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I was listening to the game on the radio for a bit. I heard him have a couple good breakout passes for quick transition into the offensive zone, then I heard him take two shots and it sounded like each time they ended TB's offensive pressure. One was blocked, typically. Sounds about right.
Yeah he is still the same Carle.....for the most part solid but prone to idiot savant episodes

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02-14-2013, 09:31 PM
  #922
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I remember getting blasted in the end of 2011 for saying I'd very strongly consider taking Carter over OV; my justification was that his production was continually declining overall which is totally unacceptable with his cap hit and his defensive shortcomings. The guy is now a liability unless he finds a way to be effective again.

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02-14-2013, 09:31 PM
  #923
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Yeah he is still the same Carle.....for the most part solid but prone to idiot savant episodes
Yeah, I'm still not willing to have that for 5.5 million. Damned Reasoner.

Edit: Garon isn't looking grand either

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02-14-2013, 09:39 PM
  #924
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Huh. I went to middle/high school with the Caps fan chick they showed in the crowd.

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02-14-2013, 09:39 PM
  #925
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I remember getting blasted in the end of 2011 for saying I'd very strongly consider taking Carter over OV; my justification was that his production was continually declining overall which is totally unacceptable with his cap hit and his defensive shortcomings. The guy is now a liability unless he finds a way to be effective again.
Ovie has become very ordinary.....he may need a change like Carter and I don't mean being banished to Columbus.....he would just pout like Carter IMO....worse probably.

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