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Brian Boyle (The "He just plain sucks" Edition)

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Old
02-14-2013, 01:32 PM
  #426
Brian Boyle
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
What has Boyle accomplished? One fluke 20 goal season? Overrated defense?
Sure. Even if you discount it to an absurd level like that it still dwarfs Kreider's.

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02-14-2013, 01:37 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by SFW View Post
Kreider isn't going to have a track record if you don't play him. He will not make the transition into becoming an NHLer if he's sitting in the press box for Brian Boyle. He has got to be developed and developed NOW. Playing him for a game here and there and then sitting him down for a game does nothing but hurt him and won't help him get into a rhythm. I'd much rather see Kreider playing to his full potential than Boyle playing to his full potential.
Kreider has been a healthy scratch for two games.

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I'd much rather see Kreider playing to his full potential than Boyle playing to his full potential.
Of course. And when do we get to see Kreider at his full potential.

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If you want to see more dump-and-chase hockey, errant passes to vacant positions, weak shots that go wide, then I guess this is the right move.
I suppose we don't see any of that from Kreider? I guess substitute weak shots that go wide with no shots and add missed coverage.

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02-14-2013, 01:41 PM
  #428
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Kreider has been a healthy scratch for two games.
Go back and watch how he answered the question regarding that 'bone chip' he purportedly had in his ankle. It's been way more than two games.

Even so, two games too many. Especially if he's sitting for Boyle.


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Of course. And when do we get to see Kreider at his full potential.
Can't give you an exact answer. But I can assure you it will not happen while he's eating shrimp cocktail in the press box.

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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I suppose we don't see any of that from Kreider? I guess substitute weak shots that go wide with no shots and add missed coverage.
Not shooting is a byproduct of poor confidence. Kreider needs to actually lace up his skates to regain the confidence he had in the playoffs.

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02-14-2013, 02:01 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
lets not act like if boyle had played last night and was out there for that time, that you wouldn't be using that as an argument.

We all know torts rides the guys he trusts in the third period when we are sheltering a lead.
One game does not an argument make; in either direction. although BB will be on a short leash in light of the success our 4th line and our team has been having.

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02-14-2013, 02:04 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Kreider has been a healthy scratch for two games.


Of course. And when do we get to see Kreider at his full potential.


I suppose we don't see any of that from Kreider? I guess substitute weak shots that go wide with no shots and add missed coverage.
You have no idea if CK has been missing coverages (anymore that any other player). That's a red herring. I think this is about seeing Miller on the wing before determining his five game fate and that line needs a center. Enter Brian Boyle. If CK or Cally was a center, BB would be sitting tonight. Now that he's in, he better make things happen.

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02-14-2013, 02:42 PM
  #431
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Although i agree with most that i do not like taking Krieder out of the lineup for Boyle, on the plus side, Boyle should come out pissed off and wreck some people tonight. I wouldn't be surprised to see him play mean and aggressive.

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02-14-2013, 04:03 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
You have no idea if CK has been missing coverages (anymore that any other player). That's a red herring. I think this is about seeing Miller on the wing before determining his five game fate and that line needs a center. Enter Brian Boyle. If CK or Cally was a center, BB would be sitting tonight. Now that he's in, he better make things happen.
Youve made it abundantly clear you either dont care about or cant decipher the defensive aspect of the game -- probably both. So, I totally believe you have no idea who is missing coverages on the back check, but I believe that -31- does.

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02-14-2013, 05:33 PM
  #433
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I love how Kreider is infinitely superior to Boyle. Despite Boyle shattering Kreider's PPG in college, AHL and the NHL along with bringing in a top notch defensive game.

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02-14-2013, 05:40 PM
  #434
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Unnecessary change.

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02-14-2013, 05:42 PM
  #435
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Opps, sorry, double post.


Last edited by The Sweetness: 02-14-2013 at 06:13 PM. Reason: double post
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02-14-2013, 05:59 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I love how Kreider is infinitely superior to Boyle. Despite Boyle shattering Kreider's PPG in college, AHL and the NHL along with bringing in a top notch defensive game.
You bring up a good point that Boyle was more productive in college. However, taking into account Boyle was a bit older than Kreider and Boyle outscored Kreider by seven points I think shattering is probably the wrong choice of words.

You haeve a good point regarding the AHL but Boyle also regressed and had a .5 ppg season in the AHL as a 24 year-old. He has also averaged .28 ppg in the NHL so far, which is actually less than Kreider when taking into account the playoffs despite Kreider being only 21 years old.

That being said, I certainly don't think Kreider is infinitely superior to Boyle, and it is fair to argue he may not even currently be superior to Boyle, But his future is certainly brighter than Boyle's and the Boyler has been pretty poor this year. I hope the benching lights a fire under him and he can up his play and help us pick up some points.

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02-14-2013, 06:05 PM
  #437
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You bring up a good point that Boyle was more productive in college. However, taking into account Boyle was a bit older than Kreider and Boyle outscored Kreider by seven points I think shattering is probably the wrong choice of words.

You haeve a good point regarding the AHL but Boyle also regressed and had a .5 ppg season in the AHL as a 24 year-old. He has also averaged .28 ppg in the NHL so far, which is actually less than Kreider when taking into account the playoffs despite Kreider being only 21 years old.

That being said, I certainly don't think Kreider is infinitely superior to Boyle, and it is fair to argue he may not even currently be superior to Boyle, But his future is certainly brighter than Boyle's and the Boyler has been pretty poor this year. I hope the benching lights a fire under him and he can up his play and help us pick up some points.
My biggest problem is that Torts doesnt seem to like kreider if he makes one mistake he benches him. Thats not gonnateach him anything. I really like the devils head coach he seems to let younger players play through it

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02-14-2013, 06:05 PM
  #438
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I'm a bit baffled why Ferreiro isn't back up considering I thought he has outperformed Kreider and Boyle so far this year.
That's a good point. Ferreiro's kind of gotten the shaft.

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02-14-2013, 06:18 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
My biggest problem is that Torts doesnt seem to like kreider if he makes one mistake he benches him. Thats not gonnateach him anything. I really like the devils head coach he seems to let younger players play through it
Well, I hope that Torts is teaching Kreider to try to worry less about making mistakes and to play more aggressively. I think it's clear Kreider has been too tentative and seems to be worried to mess up, but it remains to be seen why it is happening and why he is being benched.

I'd be happy if Torts told Kreider that he is going to sit him and when he comes back up he wants Kreider to use his speed and be assertive and that mistakes will be excused if he is playing at speed, instead of cruising around and playing fairly passively. If Torts isn't communicating something to this tune in combination with the benching I think I might agree with you.

Whatever the case, rookies need to be allowed to make mistakes, but they can't let that fear of making mistakes prevent them from playing the way they are most effective.

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02-14-2013, 11:44 PM
  #440
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Well this game basically showed that both sides were somewhat wrong. Boyle had a very good game I thought, which goes against somewhat his detractors like me (though I never thought he was incapable of ever bringing offense, just that it happens rarely). However, this silliness with "we never would have fallen apart against Boston with Boyle" needs to stop. The team played far worse defensively for far longer than in the Boston game and guess what Boyle was in the game. Played a lot too.

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02-15-2013, 03:52 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Well this game basically showed that both sides were somewhat wrong. Boyle had a very good game I thought, which goes against somewhat his detractors like me (though I never thought he was incapable of ever bringing offense, just that it happens rarely). However, this silliness with "we never would have fallen apart against Boston with Boyle" needs to stop. The team played far worse defensively for far longer than in the Boston game and guess what Boyle was in the game. Played a lot too.
I think it's fair to say that benching him light a bit of a fire under Boyle and led to a better performance, which I'm sure Torts had considered. We've got some good production from our call-ups and I think it's one of the things Tortorello has done well this year.

Hopefully he continues to get some good play with tinkering when guys start getting complacent, and that we see a rejuvenated Kreider when he's called up again.

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02-15-2013, 03:58 AM
  #442
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My biggest problem is that Torts doesnt seem to like kreider if he makes one mistake he benches him. Thats not gonnateach him anything. I really like the devils head coach he seems to let younger players play through it
I think Torts really likes Kreider, otherwise he wouldn't have called him up directly from college to play in some of the biggest Rangers games in the last decade.

I don't think he likes Kreider's play as of late and hope he is communicating that Kreider needs to worry less about mistakes, which I think is leading to his passive play and more about pressing the play and using his speed. Benching someone can be a very effective learning process depending upon how you communicate with a player, and it seems Torts generally does a good job in communicating with guys when they are dropped. I'm sure he is extra careful when dealing with young guys.

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02-15-2013, 04:05 AM
  #443
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That's a good point. Ferreiro's kind of gotten the shaft.
Yeah, I think he's been better than Kreider and Boyle. It's great having him in the squad to add more competition so guys know that if they slack off someone can come in and take their job. That kind of competition is essential imo.

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02-15-2013, 06:37 AM
  #444
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Youve made it abundantly clear you either dont care about or cant decipher the defensive aspect of the game -- probably both. So, I totally believe you have no idea who is missing coverages on the back check, but I believe that -31- does.
That's interesting. So watching the game on TV you know for sure who is responsible for what on the defensive side of the puck. -31- trolls these posts waiting for an opportunity to make a sarcastic remark. He doesn't know anymore than you do which appears to be very little. Kreider is obviously still learning the system but to watch the game on TV and claim definitively than anyone is missing coverages is arrogance and nothing more. He is claiming he sees the mental mistakes CK has made. Sorry, that's nonsense.

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02-15-2013, 06:42 AM
  #445
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Boyle played as good a game as he is capable. If he were centering our 4th line it would be good. But that 3rd line produced nothing in a game that ended uo tied. I'm sure he's back to stay. Let's see if we don't have two 4th lines going forward.

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02-15-2013, 06:56 AM
  #446
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4th line, nothing else. If he's on the 3rd line you can count on that line not producing. He's a black hole on offense.

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02-15-2013, 07:22 AM
  #447
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Credit to Boyle for a strong game. Nice to see him assert himself, drive to the net and get some shots off in addition to his defensive work. Hopefully he wakes up and can maintain his game.

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02-15-2013, 08:46 AM
  #448
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I think Torts really likes Kreider, otherwise he wouldn't have called him up directly from college to play in some of the biggest Rangers games in the last decade.
The Rangers had no bodies at that point. Stu Bickel and Eminger were dressing at forward.

I doubt Tortorella saw Kreider play more than a game or 2 before he was up in the playoffs. While thats enough for the experts here to make a judgment on a players, its not enough in the real world.

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02-15-2013, 09:13 AM
  #449
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Well this game basically showed that both sides were somewhat wrong. Boyle had a very good game I thought, which goes against somewhat his detractors like me (though I never thought he was incapable of ever bringing offense, just that it happens rarely). However, this silliness with "we never would have fallen apart against Boston with Boyle" needs to stop. The team played far worse defensively for far longer than in the Boston game and guess what Boyle was in the game. Played a lot too.
I agree. And i can admit i was wrong if others can. I think what this game showed is that this team has bigger problems than can be fixed by one player.

On top of that, one of the huge issues i had is how much ice time boyle got last night. It seems that Torts doesn't know how to utilize him properly which is probably the reason for his undue hate.

Again, boyle isn't meant to bring offense and playing him with Gabby, even though he had a good game, was a mistake. Boyle shouldn't see anything more than the 4th line with Halpern and Powe. i still advocate sitting asham for him, because i think he brings a lot more to the team but the top 3 lines need to be left alone.

We couldn't produce offense for more than like 10 minutes last night, against a bottom feeder isles team. Boyle proved he can bring a lot, but he was so overused last night it was making me sick.

The only way i'd ever be OK with giving him that much time, is if we are in the lead and he is there to help protect it OR if torts decides to give Richards a one game benching to kick him in the ass. Without kicks in the ass benchings the lines, i think, should be something like this.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Gaborik-Richards-Pyatt
Kreider-Miller-Callahan
Halpern-Boyle-Powe
Asham

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02-15-2013, 09:24 AM
  #450
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I agree. And i can admit i was wrong if others can. I think what this game showed is that this team has bigger problems than can be fixed by one player.

On top of that, one of the huge issues i had is how much ice time boyle got last night. It seems that Torts doesn't know how to utilize him properly which is probably the reason for his undue hate.

Again, boyle isn't meant to bring offense and playing him with Gabby, even though he had a good game, was a mistake. Boyle shouldn't see anything more than the 4th line with Halpern and Powe. i still advocate sitting asham for him, because i think he brings a lot more to the team but the top 3 lines need to be left alone.

We couldn't produce offense for more than like 10 minutes last night, against a bottom feeder isles team. Boyle proved he can bring a lot, but he was so overused last night it was making me sick.

The only way i'd ever be OK with giving him that much time, is if we are in the lead and he is there to help protect it OR if torts decides to give Richards a one game benching to kick him in the ass. Without kicks in the ass benchings the lines, i think, should be something like this.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Gaborik-Richards-Pyatt
Kreider-Miller-Callahan
Halpern-Boyle-Powe
Asham
We had offense for more than 10 minutes. We had more time where we created offense than the Isles, just that the bad stretch was unfathomably bad.

I'll surprise you by defending Torts here. Boyle was one of our best forwards yesterday and Richards was benched. He had to do SOMETHING during, nothing was working. The entire team looked completely inept. He was one of the best forwards.

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