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We lost 106 points of offense and replaced it with L. Schenn

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:10 PM
  #51
kammy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
.....
Might as well post this here as well...I think it's a pretty good assessment..

"In the meantime, while the Flyers and Penguins waited for three-plus days for Suter and Parise to announce their decision, the rest of the league picked apart most of an already thin unrestricted free agent crop until there was very little left."

Here's a short list of FA's we "missed out on" while waiting for Suter and Parise..
do you guys see any FA's (who switched teams) that we should have signed? here's my quick runthru..

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=636656


Fwd)
7mill: Alexander Semin
4.5mill: Olli Jokinen, Ray Whitney or Jaromir Jagr
~4mill: PA Parenteau or Jiri Hudler
~2mill: P.Mueller, D.Winnik, D.Moss, B.Pouliot, G.Latendresse, B.Prust, S.Sullivan
~1mill: Brad Boyes, Taylor Pyatt, Wojtek Wolski or Jeff Halpern

Def)
4.6mill: Jason Garrison
3.7mill: Sami Salo, Sheldon Souray or Bryan Allen
~2mill: Michal Rozsival, Joe Corvo, Adrian Aucoin, C.Colaiacovo or Greg Zanon
1.5mill: Francis Bouillon
(both Brad Stuart and Dennis Wideman rights were traded he and then signed)

Goal)
1.5mill: Jonas Gustavsson or Chris Mason
0.6mill: Al Montoya


Last edited by kammy: 02-14-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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02-14-2013, 03:14 PM
  #52
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i didnt even read through the topic but the title is hilariously bad, you can do that with anything and bend it to look terrible

laviolette replaced our coach that just won the stanley cup! how can you defend that?

edit: fire everyone

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02-14-2013, 03:16 PM
  #53
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I don't mind a good hockey debate, but he still hasn't provided a solid argument as to why these players won't become good players? What does he see that so many others can't?

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02-14-2013, 03:20 PM
  #54
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I don't get how you can say "well, cap space" when it's his JOB to manage that and HE is the one who put this team together and thus put himself in that position. I also find it fascinating how there's a "compete every year" mentality when were winning but when it's like this that disappears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
i didnt even read through the topic but the title is hilariously bad, you can do that with anything and bend it to look terrible

laviolette replaced our coach that just won the stanley cup! how can you defend that?

edit: fire everyone
Step 1: Don't read through thread
Step 2: Comment anyhow
Step 3: Profit?

You're really bringing up John Stevens? He won as an ASSISTANT coach under a great team he had nothing to do with building.

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02-14-2013, 03:23 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
How is that defended?

----

My point is that this is a poorly constructed team. Not likely to get an extremely good pick but questionable to even make the playoffs.
Didn't read the rest of the thread yet, but wanted to comment anyway.

Imo, Holmgren was expecting Schenn, Read and Cooter to make up for the loss of JVR and Jagr at the forward position. What he didn't factor in; however (and where his biggest mistake this offseason came), is that he didn't factor in the almost automatic sophmore slump at least 1 or 2 of those 3 was going to be in this season.

Couple that with the fact that Hartnell, Simmonds and Giroux probably all weren't going to repeat career years and there really isn't any defense for how badly Homer misjudged THIS year's forward corps. Not re-signing Jagr was, is and will continue to be mind-blowing... just don't sign Gervais/Foster/Fedotenko/etc. and let Rinaldo/Sestito/Harry Z/Wellwood/Gus/etc. have those slots for half the price and you can afford Jagr without even LTIR'ing Pronger.

Dumb, Dumb, Dumb...

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:27 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kammy View Post
Here's a short list of FA's we "missed out on" while waiting for Suter and Parise..
do you guys see any FA's (who switched teams) that we should have signed? here's my quick runthru..

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=636656


Fwd)
7mill: Alexander Semin
4.5mill: Olli Jokinen, Ray Whitney or Jaromir Jagr
~4mill: PA Parenteau or Jiri Hudler
~2mill: P.Mueller, D.Winnik, D.Moss, B.Pouliot, G.Latendresse, B.Prust, S.Sullivan
~1mill: Brad Boyes, Taylor Pyatt, Wojtek Wolski or Jeff Halpern

Def)
4.6mill: Jason Garrison
3.7mill: Sami Salo, Sheldon Souray or Bryan Allen
~2mill: Michal Rozsival, Joe Corvo, Adrian Aucoin, C.Colaiacovo or Greg Zanon
1.5mill: Francis Bouillon
(Dennis Wideman rights were traded he and then signed)

Goal)
1.5mill: Jonas Gustavsson or Chris Mason
0.6mill: Al Montoya
Corvo is not bad..right handed shot ...previous history with Lavy on the cup winning team. Much better than the 2 for 1 Gervais and Foster stopgap deals. Problem is that Carolina gave him a NMC even though the deal was for one year.

Not sure who on that list has faceoff skills?

I was ok with Parenteau and he's gotten goals but obviously Avalanche paid a lot.

Meltzer did say it was thin but there are some decent stopgaps on there compared to what we got which includes Knuble and Feds

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:41 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I don't get how you can say "well, cap space" when it's his JOB to manage that and HE is the one who put this team together and thus put himself in that position. I also find it fascinating how there's a "compete every year" mentality when were winning but when it's like this that disappears.



Step 1: Don't read through thread
Step 2: Comment anyhow
Step 3: Profit?

You're really bringing up John Stevens? He won as an ASSISTANT coach under a great team he had nothing to do with building.
right over your head

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:44 PM
  #58
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Here's the way I look at this past offseason.

Holmgren obviously saw that there were some glaring deficiencies on the team. He tried to address them by going after Parise and Suter. He lost out.

So, instead of keeping the status quo, he was hoping that Laviolette would tighten the ship and play a bit of a more regimented and structured system to make up for the losses of Jagr and Carle.

I don't think anyone can be disappointed in the play of Luke Schenn so far because he's been very good. The Flyers needed a true thumper back there to make people worry about going into the corner. Schenn has done that.

The problem is that Laviolette is still trying to play a high pressure system without having the personnel to do so. You'd figure that he would at least try to tighten things up a bit and play a more defense-oriented system, but he hasn't.

That doesn't fall on Holmgren. That falls on Laviolette. Most coaches are willing to adjust their game plan to the personnel they have. Laviolette hasn't done that.

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02-14-2013, 03:46 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Here's the way I look at this past offseason.

Holmgren obviously saw that there were some glaring deficiencies on the team. He tried to address them by going after Parise and Suter. He lost out.

So, instead of keeping the status quo, he was hoping that Laviolette would tighten the ship and play a bit of a more regimented and structured system to make up for the losses of Jagr and Carle.

I don't think anyone can be disappointed in the play of Luke Schenn so far because he's been very good. The Flyers needed a true thumper back there to make people worry about going into the corner. Schenn has done that.

The problem is that Laviolette is still trying to play a high pressure system without having the personnel to do so. You'd figure that he would at least try to tighten things up a bit and play a more defense-oriented system, but he hasn't.

That doesn't fall on Holmgren. That falls on Laviolette. Most coaches are willing to adjust their game plan to the personnel they have. Laviolette hasn't done that.
On the other side of the coin, one would hope the GM gives the coach the personnel he needs to succeed.

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02-14-2013, 03:47 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CootaRoo View Post
Didn't read the rest of the thread yet, but wanted to comment anyway.

Imo, Holmgren was expecting Schenn, Read and Cooter to make up for the loss of JVR and Jagr at the forward position. What he didn't factor in; however (and where his biggest mistake this offseason came), is that he didn't factor in the almost automatic sophmore slump at least 1 or 2 of those 3 was going to be in this season.

Couple that with the fact that Hartnell, Simmonds and Giroux probably all weren't going to repeat career years and there really isn't any defense for how badly Homer misjudged THIS year's forward corps. Not re-signing Jagr was, is and will continue to be mind-blowing... just don't sign Gervais/Foster/Fedotenko/etc. and let Rinaldo/Sestito/Harry Z/Wellwood/Gus/etc. have those slots for half the price and you can afford Jagr without even LTIR'ing Pronger.

Dumb, Dumb, Dumb...
Sophomore slumps are far from automatic, although depending on them to fill in offensively wasn't a good idea either.

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02-14-2013, 03:49 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
On the other side of the coin, one would hope the GM gives the coach the personnel he needs to succeed.
True but the sign of a good coach can adjust to what he's got. That's why Babcock is such a damn good coach. Lavy has shown he can't adjust his personnel.

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02-14-2013, 04:05 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
On the other side of the coin, one would hope the GM gives the coach the personnel he needs to succeed.
I'm also pretty sure that Holmgren said in the offseason that he wanted to see the team tighten up defensively as well. I wonder if those moves were made solely to force Laviolette's hand into implementing a more defensive approach. I also think the additon of John Paddock as an assistant coach reinforced Holmgren's view about tightening up defensively.

As much as it hurt to lose Jagr and Carle, Brayden Schenn has started to turn it around and that line of him, McGinn and Voracek have found a groove. I really think the biggest thing hurting the club right now has been the play of Giroux. I'm really believe though that he's playing hurt and he's not saying anything......

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02-14-2013, 04:17 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
True but the sign of a good coach can adjust to what he's got. That's why Babcock is such a damn good coach. Lavy has shown he can't adjust his personnel.

We don't evn know this yet.

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:48 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CootaRoo View Post
Didn't read the rest of the thread yet, but wanted to comment anyway.

Imo, Holmgren was expecting Schenn, Read and Cooter to make up for the loss of JVR and Jagr at the forward position. What he didn't factor in; however (and where his biggest mistake this offseason came), is that he didn't factor in the almost automatic sophmore slump at least 1 or 2 of those 3 was going to be in this season.

Couple that with the fact that Hartnell, Simmonds and Giroux probably all weren't going to repeat career years and there really isn't any defense for how badly Homer misjudged THIS year's forward corps. Not re-signing Jagr was, is and will continue to be mind-blowing... just don't sign Gervais/Foster/Fedotenko/etc. and let Rinaldo/Sestito/Harry Z/Wellwood/Gus/etc. have those slots for half the price and you can afford Jagr without even LTIR'ing Pronger.

Dumb, Dumb, Dumb...
What sophmore slump? Read and Schenn are both on 50+ pt paces.

Giroux is a bigger problem then any of the 2nd year players.

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:48 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
On the other side of the coin, one would hope the GM gives the coach the personnel he needs to succeed.
He tried to though, didn't he? This offseason was not Homer's best work, but a lot of that was out of his control. Jagr and Carle were going where the money is. The Flyers weren't really going to pay more than or likely even close to what those two got. Outside of Suter, Parise, and Weber, there was little else available. He struck out for reasons that were beyond his control (Suter and Parise had no intentions of coming here, the Flyers "got" Weber but Nashville stepped in and matched). If he didn't pursue those players I suppose this team could have looked different, but if you look at the players available, I'm not so sure that would have been a good thing.

The JvR trade, should not be factored in to the loss of Jagr and Carle. That trade is something that was needed. If it wasn't made, the Flyers defense would be in even worse shape than it is right now and the Flyers would, I imagine, still be looking to make a trade for a young defenseman (or possibly have made a different trade).

In all honesty, and this questions is directed to everyone, what should have Homer done differently this offseason?

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02-14-2013, 04:49 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
What sophmore slump? Read and Schenn are both on 50+ pt paces.

Giroux is a bigger problem then any of the 2nd year players.
I'm hoping this gets rectified when Fartsmell comes back.

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02-14-2013, 04:53 PM
  #67
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In all honesty, and this questions is directed to everyone, what should have Homer done differently this offseason?
Traveled back in time to the last game played by either Watson brother and told the organization to learn how to develop their owned damned defensemen.

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02-14-2013, 05:08 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Wow, third and fourth line 25 goal scorers. I wish we had a whole team of these kinds of fourth liners.
Someone please wake me when either Schenn or Couturier ever score 25 goals.

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02-14-2013, 05:15 PM
  #69
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yeah well, tell me that when this team cup losing streak hits 50 years.
It's only a mere 12 years away...2025. Mercifully Holmgren will have gone back to ice fishing in Minnesota.

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02-14-2013, 07:07 PM
  #70
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yeah well, tell me that when this team cup losing streak hits 50 years.
You are my favorite poster on here. You are just freakin' hilarious. I swear you wake up with a rain cloud on you everyday. I shall call you Garfield.

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02-14-2013, 09:28 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Every team deals with injuries and ours aren't that bad. We lost a depth d and our top line LW for a bit. Not that bad if this team is constructed well. Look at Ottawa. They've lost Karlsson, Spezza, Cowen, and Michalek. Yet they're ahead of us. Torontos best player has been invisible all season yet they're in fifth.

I know he was relying on youngsters. In what way is it smart to expect Brayden and Couturier keep the offense going. They're both sophomores. Heck, Couturier is 19.
Please tell us what should have happened nostradamus.

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02-15-2013, 01:13 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kammy View Post
Here's a short list of FA's we "missed out on" while waiting for Suter and Parise..
do you guys see any FA's (who switched teams) that we should have signed? here's my quick runthru..

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=636656


Fwd)
7mill: Alexander Semin
4.5mill: Olli Jokinen, Ray Whitney or Jaromir Jagr
~4mill: PA Parenteau or Jiri Hudler
~2mill: P.Mueller, D.Winnik, D.Moss, B.Pouliot, G.Latendresse, B.Prust, S.Sullivan
~1mill: Brad Boyes, Taylor Pyatt, Wojtek Wolski or Jeff Halpern

Def)
4.6mill: Jason Garrison
3.7mill: Sami Salo, Sheldon Souray or Bryan Allen
~2mill: Michal Rozsival, Joe Corvo, Adrian Aucoin, C.Colaiacovo or Greg Zanon
1.5mill: Francis Bouillon
(both Brad Stuart and Dennis Wideman rights were traded he and then signed)

Goal)
1.5mill: Jonas Gustavsson or Chris Mason
0.6mill: Al Montoya
If Halpern is healthy, I would take him for about $1 million. Veteran, great guy, excellent on faceoffs still, but we probably wouldn't get more than 20-25 points out of him. I'd take Corvo, too. And I guess Mason would be my pick for backup goalie, because he'd probably sign for under $1 million at this point. We can't really afford anyone really pricey.

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02-15-2013, 01:37 AM
  #73
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I'd gladly take Mueller, Wolski and Boyes off that list if we only restrict ourselves to lower cap hit forwards.

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02-15-2013, 06:24 AM
  #74
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Am I the only one that wouldn't have minded Souray?

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Old
02-15-2013, 07:16 AM
  #75
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I'd gladly take Mueller, Wolski and Boyes off that list if we only restrict ourselves to lower cap hit forwards.
Yeah Mueller especially

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