HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

For the Best Long term ?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-14-2013, 09:13 AM
  #76
Kid Canesten
Registered User
 
Kid Canesten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 556
vCash: 500
Oh where to begin. When I heard of the news last night, I was at work and I just couldnt believe it. I didnt want to believe it. I got drunk and baked last night and all me and my buddy did was rant and vent about everything. Now that I've slept on it, here's my take:

What makes this injury so devastating is that Karlsson was on pace to better his numbers from last year's Norris winning season. He looked like the early favourite for the Norris and was definitely in the running for the Hart. He's currently (still) the league leader in SOG, playing very effectively on the PK and toying with opponents on a nightly basis. Essentially, this was going to be the season that Karlsson put all his doubters and naysayers in their place.

With that said, a lost season hurts, but what most of us are worried about is how he will come back from a devastating injury such as this one, especially considering the elite skating Karlsson possesses. It may take time, a lot of time, but I do believe Karlsson will be back to this level. Obviously, we've been spoiled as fans and don't want to wait, but it is inevitable. We need to trust the training staff, the doctors and most importantly to Karlsson to have the dedication to come back from this injury.

Karlsson has already displayed his elite skills and high IQ, therefore I'm taking the optimistic approach and saying he will be back as good as he was. He is only 22, he should be able to have a full recovery.

Kid Canesten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 09:37 AM
  #77
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,211
vCash: 500
If the tendon was just lacerated, and not severed, I have no concerns long-term. And even if completely severed, they have come a long way with the surgery, but it would be a major rehab and it is does shorten and tighten the achilles long-term, so not great. But I doubt it will materially impact Karlsson in the long-run. But with the momentum he had and the way he was playing, it could hurt him a bit next year out of the gate. It really does suck and it's ok for us to all feel that way at least for a few days.

For the team, there is really nothing good about this, other than the scenario of getting a lottery pick in a year, where it would be GREAT to get a lottery pick. But it will be hard to really orchestrate that when you are trying to teach a team how to win. MacLean must push the team to come together and have other players step up. But with Cowen already out, this does suck because he would have been a guy that could have really stepped into the void left by Erik (at least partially). Giving Wiercioch a bit more PP time might be a good thing, but I don't see the 25+ minutes a night being spread around as an overly great thing, even if it is good news for Benoit's career in particular.

So if the team does struggle, and we drop out of the playoffs and end up trading Gonchar for a 2nd rounder, and we also drop into the top 5 (when there is seemingly a clear top 6), this could be a good thing I suppose in terms of another quick restock. Getting a Monahen or Lindholm, or even a Nurse, Pulock, Shinkaruk or Nickushin going forward would be pretty exciting.

But the reality is, this team and it's young players would have been better served to make the playoffs again, battle and push an elite opponent and gain experience in being a contender in the longrun. Tough to replace that experience when trying to build a contender.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:40 AM
  #78
Micklebot
Registered User
 
Micklebot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,097
vCash: 500
On the positive side:

- We could get a top 5 pick in a shortened season, so at least we don't have to endure a full 82 games of pain.
- Wiercoich gets to develop his PP game. Might be of benefit long term.
- Gonchar will likely be traded at the deadline and return something of value rather than kept for a playoff run (I'd prefer a playoff run though).
- Bishop may get more reps now and hopefully increase his trade value.

That's all I got. Knowing our luck we'll lose the lottery and drop a spot in the draft, all our trade assets will get injured the week of the deadline, and all the vendors Scotia Bank place will loose their liquor licences for selling to minors at 67 games.

Micklebot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:43 AM
  #79
source
Registered User
 
source's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
On the positive side:

- We could get a top 5 pick in a shortened season, so at least we don't have to endure a full 82 games of pain.
- Wiercoich gets to develop his PP game. Might be of benefit long term.
- Gonchar will likely be traded at the deadline and return something of value rather than kept for a playoff run (I'd prefer a playoff run though).
- Bishop may get more reps now and hopefully increase his trade value.

That's all I got. Knowing our luck we'll lose the lottery and drop a spot in the draft, all our trade assets will get injured the week of the deadline, and all the vendors Scotia Bank place will loose their liquor licences for selling to minors at 67 games.
Possibility: Alfie wins a Stanley Cup

source is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:48 AM
  #80
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Country: Italy
Posts: 14,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Long Username View Post
If Karlsson makes a full recovery by next year, i think this injury will help us long term.

I'm as hurting as alot of you guys. This is without a doubt the worst day of my life, no joke. Karlsson was one of the reasons i couldn't wait to watch a hockey game.Watching him play instantly brightened up my day, every day. His display of excitement was a thing i was always thinking about. The best player and the most exciting hockey player in the world.

As great as karlsson it was evident that we definitely needed another franchise player besides Spezza.We rely way too muh on these guys.Still With just those two we would be contenders in the future with our prospects. But now that we most likey will get a a player who will be a star , in the real of spezza , we will most likely be THE best team in the league. With a core of Spezza/Erik / Jones or/ Mack plus, the amazing depth we have. I think we will be the team to beat when erik is back , better than ever.

Erik/ Spezza made us a top ten team. Erik Spezza and Franchise talent will makes us the cream of the crop.

Sorry my gramma , ive had a bit to drink
wow, some people are blessed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by balaclava brian View Post
Someone made a joke about the Sens board being on suicide watch. Maybe it shouldn't have been a joke judging by some of the responses here.

Yes, his injury is horrible. However, no one knows the extent of the injury or the impact it will have, if any, on his career. I can understand people being upset, but now is really the time to step back, take a breath and begin thinking positively.
And I see it as a reason to begin appreciating the things we have, because losing them could be fast and easy

Xspyrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:53 AM
  #81
Alfie#11
Registered User
 
Alfie#11's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
If the tendon was just lacerated, and not severed, I have no concerns long-term. And even if completely severed, they have come a long way with the surgery, but it would be a major rehab and it is does shorten and tighten the achilles long-term, so not great. But I doubt it will materially impact Karlsson in the long-run. But with the momentum he had and the way he was playing, it could hurt him a bit next year out of the gate. It really does suck and it's ok for us to all feel that way at least for a few days.

For the team, there is really nothing good about this, other than the scenario of getting a lottery pick in a year, where it would be GREAT to get a lottery pick. But it will be hard to really orchestrate that when you are trying to teach a team how to win. MacLean must push the team to come together and have other players step up. But with Cowen already out, this does suck because he would have been a guy that could have really stepped into the void left by Erik (at least partially). Giving Wiercioch a bit more PP time might be a good thing, but I don't see the 25+ minutes a night being spread around as an overly great thing, even if it is good news for Benoit's career in particular.

So if the team does struggle, and we drop out of the playoffs and end up trading Gonchar for a 2nd rounder, and we also drop into the top 5 (when there is seemingly a clear top 6), this could be a good thing I suppose in terms of another quick restock. Getting a Monahen or Lindholm, or even a Nurse, Pulock, Shinkaruk or Nickushin going forward would be pretty exciting.

But the reality is, this team and it's young players would have been better served to make the playoffs again, battle and push an elite opponent and gain experience in being a contender in the longrun. Tough to replace that experience when trying to build a contender.
This is a great post. The only point I would disagree with is top 5 pick. Barring a miracle, we are the team that finishes at the bottom. We lost a defenceman that played half the game and our leading goal scorer.

You cant win if you dont score and we wont score without Erik and Spezza.

Alfie#11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 12:42 PM
  #82
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfie#11 View Post
This is a great post. The only point I would disagree with is top 5 pick. Barring a miracle, we are the team that finishes at the bottom. We lost a defenceman that played half the game and our leading goal scorer.

You cant win if you dont score and we wont score without Erik and Spezza.
We will remain competitive, despite the loss of Karlsson, but no doubt we will lose more than we win going forward, and we are not going to score a ton of goals. There will be some tough nights in terms of scoring chance.

But I still think this team will win 1 in 3 games, and perhaps get 7 or 8 points every 10 games. This will mean we'll fall in teh standings and out of a playoff spot, but I don't think it guarantees we drop into the bottom 5, give we are already 30% into the season. Decent chance though. If we go on a long losing streak, I won't be bemoan it too much. Sucks for Alfie though. Hope he comes back next year.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:01 PM
  #83
Ice-Tray
Registered User
 
Ice-Tray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
I'm sorry, but Karlsson had the potential to become one of the greatest defenseman in the history of the NHL. He was playing the sort of game that no one else has ever done. There is a very real chance he never reaches those heights because he doesn't regain that explosive first step acceleration that he had.

You can go through years of 1st overall picks without getting a guy like that.
You're getting a little panicky here....

RECAP:

Achilles injuries generally have a 100% recovery rate, especially for top athletes getting the best care available, with many having a stronger tendon after rehab. The injury happened to his left leg which is NOT his power leg, or his FIRST STEP leg. His first step acceleration will be just fine (consider two of his first three steps are with his normal power leg, one will be his repaired and likely stronger left).

This is the BEST year to have this injury, given that we are in a shortened season, It could have been much worse having him miss a full season. As it stands he will miss 30 odd games and most likely be back ready to go at the start of next season FULLY HEALED AND REHABBED.

I'm not a tanker, but if this injury had to happen, this is the best case scenario for us. He doesn't miss many games, we are not yet contenders, deep draft coming up, and we are already suffering season ruining injuries to Spezza and Cowan.

Also, we are not losing a season of his prime, we are losing 30 games of him as a 22 year old on the rise. He has a lot more to go before he is in his prime (a few years at least), so relax, we're just not used to his talent level, but there is a lot more room for him to grow as we all know.

Shame for Alfie, though we weren't winning anything this year anyways, shame for Karlsson as he was almost assured to win the Norris again, a shame for us given that he drove the offence a this point, and a shame for the league as he was arguably it's best and most electrifying player. HOWEVER, he will be back and likely more hungry.

Be sad, angry, and irrational if you must, this is understandable, but please, enough with the career ending, seen the best of him, generational talent ruined stuff, it's simply not the case, and there is no history to support that theory, and lots to support the opposite.

Cheers!

Ice-Tray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:02 PM
  #84
Micklebot
Registered User
 
Micklebot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
We will remain competitive, despite the loss of Karlsson, but no doubt we will lose more than we win going forward, and we are not going to score a ton of goals. There will be some tough nights in terms of scoring chance.

But I still think this team will win 1 in 3 games, and perhaps get 7 or 8 points every 10 games. This will mean we'll fall in teh standings and out of a playoff spot, but I don't think it guarantees we drop into the bottom 5, give we are already 30% into the season. Decent chance though. If we go on a long losing streak, I won't be bemoan it too much. Sucks for Alfie though. Hope he comes back next year.
I think you might be a little optimistic with your projection. 7-8 pts per 10 games ends the season with 39-43 pts. That would pace out to 68-74 pts over an 82 game sched, wich historically is good for a top 5 pick. 74 ots was at best the 24th place since the lockout.

Micklebot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:09 PM
  #85
Ice-Tray
Registered User
 
Ice-Tray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Long Username View Post
we just ride it out. with what we have. Get franchise talent , and come back better than ever in september. This season is lost.
Screw that!

I'm firmly entrenched on the side that wants to watch each game hoping to see the boys we have left gut out each game, winning when not expected, and continue to foster a never-say-die mentality. That is the kind of team that wins championships, that's the type of team that makes a lot of noise once they're best players are injected back into the lineup next season. Much of sport is played between the ears, and this team is not about to roll over and give up, so why should we as fans?

Ice-Tray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:27 PM
  #86
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
I think you might be a little optimistic with your projection. 7-8 pts per 10 games ends the season with 39-43 pts. That would pace out to 68-74 pts over an 82 game sched, wich historically is good for a top 5 pick. 74 ots was at best the 24th place since the lockout.
Fair point. But there has typically been a pretty significant clustering in the 20th - 27th range or so. A few wins here or there and you can slide up or down pretty easily. I think the clustering will be even tigher this year and we could easily end up in the 7-11 slot in the draft. I'd obviously much prefer to be top 5, like everyone else.

If we fall out of playoff contention and have another injury or two, the trading of Gonchar would probably really stagnate our scoring. The AHL tandem of Wiercioch and Benoit would basically be our top PP pairing. That might be enough to send us to the top 5. Of course, I also think it's possible if there is another injury or two, that we drop right to the bottom. Top 3 would be a major coup, but I'm just not comfortable going there mentally yet. Give me a week or two.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 02:00 PM
  #87
Micklebot
Registered User
 
Micklebot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
On the positive side:

- We could get a top 5 pick in a shortened season, so at least we don't have to endure a full 82 games of pain.
- Wiercoich gets to develop his PP game. Might be of benefit long term.
- Gonchar will likely be traded at the deadline and return something of value rather than kept for a playoff run (I'd prefer a playoff run though).
- Bishop may get more reps now and hopefully increase his trade value.

That's all I got. Knowing our luck we'll lose the lottery and drop a spot in the draft, all our trade assets will get injured the week of the deadline, and all the vendors Scotia Bank place will loose their liquor licences for selling to minors at 67 games.
I thought of another positive;

Once the initial surge of "did Cooke intend this intentionally" threads, there should be far less Karlsson threads on the main boards degrading into us vs them, and Karlsson is just a 4th fwd mentality, and we get to see whether Methot is the product of Karlsson here.

Micklebot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 02:11 PM
  #88
Security Guard Chang*
Chang's Army
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Greendale
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice-Tray View Post
Screw that!

I'm firmly entrenched on the side that wants to watch each game hoping to see the boys we have left gut out each game, winning when not expected, and continue to foster a never-say-die mentality. That is the kind of team that wins championships, that's the type of team that makes a lot of noise once they're best players are injected back into the lineup next season. Much of sport is played between the ears, and this team is not about to roll over and give up, so why should we as fans?
Yes , I still want them to win and somehow make the playoffs. But at this point it isn't realistic.

Security Guard Chang* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 02:17 PM
  #89
SilverSeven
Registered User
 
SilverSeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,534
vCash: 500
With the way this season is going we will finish last and lose the lottery.

SilverSeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 05:30 PM
  #90
sens2k9
Registered User
 
sens2k9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB View Post
Robert Lang was the last guy I remember with a severed achilles that came back to play. Noew the guy was never a burner before the injury, but I do remember him being slower when he came back.

Anyone else know?
Teemu Selanne had the same injury at the same age
he seems to be doing ok i guess...

edit: Additionally I don't think Murray will make any major moves now, there's really no point. I'm expecting a couple of depth moves just to keep veteran NHL bodies on the roster so we're not expecting kids to lead kids like the Edmonton Oilers have been doing.

sens2k9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 05:40 PM
  #91
inthewings
Registered User
 
inthewings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatWasNoAccident View Post
I'm really sick and tired of hearing this business about "surgery now so in the long term things will be better" in the sense that these situations should be prevented. Ok, say EK does his surgery and his back 100% next season. So what's the next season-ending injury that will be thrown on him? What then - another "surgery now so in the long term thing swill be better"?

This same thing happened with Havlat. 05-06 he had 16 pts in 18 games, then suffered a wrist injury. I recall him speaking with a reporter saying he'd rather get the surgery so he can return and be healthy for the playoffs. Ok, so 64 games down the drain. Is this the acceptable pattern now? Get injured, take the season off, and just play in the playoffs? It's not that I'm blaming EK or Havlat but this concept of "surgery now so it benefits the long-term future" seems the path of least resistance.

I realise nothing can be done about these injuries now that they have happened, but my point is that these situations should be prevented in the first place. I'm not confident that the other players are doing their jobs by pairing up with who they should pair up. Granted the Alfie line was on the ice but I think MacLean could have done a better job managing that situation.
WAT

inthewings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 06:46 PM
  #92
Rumcajs
Registered User
 
Rumcajs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,217
vCash: 500
Most of you should qualify and say that this is the worst "hockey day" in your life.

I would gander that it should be the second worst.

Forgetting 2007?

Rumcajs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 06:50 PM
  #93
Dionysus
Registered User
 
Dionysus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Around the bend
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,194
vCash: 500
Not best for the long term at all. A player at the top of his game, possibly the best in the world, gets his season cut short. Loses a season of development, and the team loses a season of developing a winning culture. Bad all-around. Sets the rebuild back.

Dionysus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 06:53 PM
  #94
Gil Gunderson
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,131
vCash: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
Most of you should qualify and say that this is the worst "hockey day" in your life.

I would gander that it should be the second worst.

Forgetting 2007?
2003 was way worse.

Gil Gunderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 07:06 PM
  #95
source
Registered User
 
source's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
Most of you should qualify and say that this is the worst "hockey day" in your life.

I would gander that it should be the second worst.

Forgetting 2007?
2003 was devastating as well.

source is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 07:07 PM
  #96
SammyTheBull
Registered User
 
SammyTheBull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,517
vCash: 500
The only way to make up for this is drafting between #1-3 and Karlsson recovering 100%.

Ordered Center Ice for the first time, yea it was discounted, to see Karlsson play...

SammyTheBull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 07:38 PM
  #97
derriko
Registered User
 
derriko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 3,038
vCash: 500
I live in Tri-City so if we see a sinking ship I will have 3-4 viewings of Jones by years end and should be able to give a decent scouting report.

derriko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 08:11 PM
  #98
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,641
vCash: 500
I acknowledge that this is coming from someone with over ten thousand posts on a hockey forum, but some of you really need to step the **** back.

Powdered Toast Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 08:21 PM
  #99
swiftwin
#lalala
 
swiftwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Gunderson View Post
2003 was way worse.
Yea, 2003 ruined me for atleast a week.

I'm already feeling alot better about last night, now knowing that its not 100% cut, and that he'll be able to train over the summer, and is very likely not going to have any long-lasting effects. That was my biggest concern.

swiftwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2013, 12:16 PM
  #100
dan1el
Registered User
 
dan1el's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
Most of you should qualify and say that this is the worst "hockey day" in your life.

I would gander that it should be the second worst.

Forgetting 2007?
I knew we were gonna get it handed to us against that 07 Ducks team. We probably would have beat their 03 team IMO. Losing that game 7 to the Devils was the most devastating loss I've ever witnessed.

dan1el is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.