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Ruff Didn't Score Enough: Trades 'n' FAs II

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:33 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by GodHatesBuffalo View Post
As far as I'm concerned Grigorenko is far more valuable than ROR. It's more like: Grigorenko for ROR + avs prospects.
You'd be in the minority there. O'Reilly has proven he's a very good defensive center who can put up 60 points in this league. Grigorenko has proven nothing. Even Grigorenko's ceiling isn't that much higher than what O'Reilly has already done.

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02-14-2013, 04:39 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by GodHatesBuffalo View Post
As far as I'm concerned Grigorenko is far more valuable than ROR. It's more like: Grigorenko for ROR + avs prospects.
I'm concerned about you

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02-14-2013, 04:41 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
You'd be in the minority there. O'Reilly has proven he's a very good defensive center who can put up 60 points in this league. Grigorenko has proven nothing. Even Grigorenko's ceiling isn't that much higher than what O'Reilly has already done.
Yeah, there's no way Grigs has more value than ROR. So, what I'm hearing is Ennis+grigs is highly unlikely even if the avs added a prospect like Elliott or Sgarbossa?

... and since I have your attention what has happened to poor Adam? He looked great in the begining of last year and now he isn't even in the NHL.

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02-14-2013, 04:45 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Yeah, there's no way Grigs has more value than ROR. So, what I'm hearing is Ennis+grigs is highly unlikely even if the avs added a prospect like Elliott or Sgarbossa?

... and since I have your attention what has happened to poor Adam? He looked great in the begining of last year and now he isn't even in the NHL.
Yes, that's brutal.

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02-14-2013, 04:47 PM
  #30
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Its a waste of time discussing Grigorenko in a deal for O'Reilly, it wont happen, I would think the same for Girgensons and Armia if I know DR like I think I do.

Ennis
Sekera
McCabe
McNabb
Pysyk
Picks
Cat

The deal would be a combo of that. I also think that a vet D would be in the deal.

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:51 PM
  #31
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Yeah Adam was huge letdown. He has no defensive awareness and has shown no effort or desire to improve on it. I don't think he has any NHL future as a C, and a marginal chance as an NHL winger if he decides to get some semblance of a work ethic.

As for ROR, is the Avs need for a roster player more prevalent at D or FW? I read that Sherman prefers a roster player in the form of a top six FW, and a top prospect (I assume) at D-man. I figured you might need a roster D-man more since the d-corps seems a bit weaker than FW. Either way though, Buffalo is a team that has a combination in both directions. I really hope something can be worked out.

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02-14-2013, 04:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
Yes, that's brutal.
Yeah, I thought it was a bit much.

I'm not a fan of Armia but a lot of avs fans like this Sekera fella and I honestly haven't been paying much attention to him. How good is he? Ennis + Sekera seems like a deal most fans like but I'm not sure.

The avs need D in a bad way. We basically have 1 good defender and now he's out with a concussion. I wouldn't buy into this rumor of roster player has to be forward or defense. The avs are just so secretive nobody really knows what's going on. IN reality the avs will take the BPA regardless of pos. I prefer a defense man but as long as the forward is good and has great potential(ennis) I'd be happy.

Sucks to hear about Adam tho.

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02-14-2013, 04:59 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Its a waste of time discussing Grigorenko in a deal for O'Reilly, it wont happen, I would think the same for Girgensons and Armia if I know DR like I think I do.

Ennis
Sekera
McCabe
McNabb
Pysyk
Picks
Cat

The deal would be a combo of that. I also think that a vet D would be in the deal.
Ennis
Sekera

McNabb
McCabe
Pysyk

Picks
Adam
other stuff

yea... it's one of the first 2, 1 of the next 3, and then add sweeteners

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02-14-2013, 04:59 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Yeah, I thought it was a bit much.

I'm not a fan of Armia but a lot of avs fans like this Sekera fella and I honestly haven't been paying much attention to him. How good is he? Ennis + Sekera seems like a deal most fans like but I'm not sure.


Sucks to hear about Adam tho.
Taking contracts into consideration, Ennis and Sekera are arguably our two most trade-able assets. You're unlikely to get both unless something of good value was coming back from Colorado in addition to O'Reilly.

It's essentially Ennis + One of our good prospects or Sekera + One of our good prospects.

As for Sekera, he's a smooth-skating defenseman that's good in his own end and underrated offensively. Not overly physical but he won't shy away - he'll surprise you by clocking someone every so often. Certainly one of our better d-men.

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02-14-2013, 05:02 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Ennis
Sekera

McNabb
McCabe
Pysyk

Picks
Adam
other stuff

yea... it's one of the first 2, 1 of the next 3, and then add sweeteners
Tough to give up all those pieces. I think it has to be contingent on ROR signing to a long term cap friendly deal. Some suggest he wants 5-6 million a year, he simply isn't worth close to that, especially with the new CBA and cap numbers.

If its true that he wants that much money, we should not even be thinking about going after him.

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02-14-2013, 05:07 PM
  #36
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Foligno + Pysyk

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Old
02-14-2013, 05:21 PM
  #37
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Try Staffy + 2nd and a Pardy (;

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Old
02-14-2013, 05:25 PM
  #38
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Our defense has become such a question mark that I'd rather give up Ennis + d-man prospect, than Sekera + forward prospect. Sekera is actually one of our two best d-men along with Ehrhoff, with Myers falling back into "potential" mode (with an established star contract). With holes to fill after Regehr and Leopold (hopefully) get traded or walk, I have some pretty low expectations while Pysyk, McNabb, and McCabe develop. Next season the d-corps looks like...

Sekera - xxxxx
Ehrhoff - Sulzer (if he re-signs)
Weber - Myers
Brennan

Buffalo needs a top pairing quality d-man, and that's even if Myers gets his head on straight.

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Old
02-14-2013, 05:35 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loods View Post
Taking contracts into consideration, Ennis and Sekera are arguably our two most trade-able assets. You're unlikely to get both unless something of good value was coming back from Colorado in addition to O'Reilly.

It's essentially Ennis + One of our good prospects or Sekera + One of our good prospects.

As for Sekera, he's a smooth-skating defenseman that's good in his own end and underrated offensively. Not overly physical but he won't shy away - he'll surprise you by clocking someone every so often. Certainly one of our better d-men.
Sekera sounds really good and he's still very young. Who does he compare to? Marc Staal?

Ennis+Sekera and a pick for ROR and Elliott? Elliott is one of our top prospects but he's been struggling this year and is injured right now but he has a lot of potential. A lot of avs fans will probably hate this deal but I think it's solid.

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02-14-2013, 05:36 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
Tough to give up all those pieces. I think it has to be contingent on ROR signing to a long term cap friendly deal. Some suggest he wants 5-6 million a year, he simply isn't worth close to that, especially with the new CBA and cap numbers.

If its true that he wants that much money, we should not even be thinking about going after him.
Was Mike Richards (5.75) worth it to LA?
Was Patrice Bergeron (5.0) worth it to Boston?

Carolina thinks Jordan Staal (6.0) is worth it...
Vancouver believed Ryan Kesler (5.0) was worth it...

If you are trading the types of assets we are talking about, it's because you believe that O'reilly is a legit franchise shutdown center. And those guys get paid 5.0 - 6.0

If you don't believe O'reilly is a truly elite shutdown top 6 center... then you shouldn't be talking about trading for him.

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02-14-2013, 05:44 PM
  #41
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I've been browsing various forums out of curiosity. Not really interested in discussing the subject overall, but where the hell is the $6M figure coming from? This is the second time I've seen it and I don't understand why.

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Old
02-14-2013, 06:15 PM
  #42
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I do Sekera and Girgensons for ROR

V-H-P
Foligno-ROR-Ott
Ennis-Grigorenko-Stafford
Gerbe-Hecht-Kaleta

Grig line gets sheltered minutes in the Ozone, ROR line gets large amount of D starts and VHP equal starts

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Old
02-14-2013, 06:43 PM
  #43
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My gut feeling is that the Leafs get him for Gardiner. I'll cry.

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Old
02-14-2013, 07:04 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
you would give up one of Monahan, Lindholm, Barkov, Jones, MacKinnon or Drouin in a package for RoR? This could be our first top 5 pick in 10 years I would not want to move it when the top 6 is looking extremly good. Too me it isn't worth it, I would move the pick for RoR if it were outside of the top 6 or so if I had to.
False choice. I think if they got O'Reilly, there wouldn't be a top-6 pick. Heck, even if we don't get ROR, we still may not pick in the top-6 if a few of these guys get their heads out of their *****. Then we're picking #12 again and we're analyzing Darnell Nurse v. Ryan Pulock, and we don't have O'Reilly.

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Old
02-14-2013, 07:09 PM
  #45
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False choice. I think if they got O'Reilly, there wouldn't be a top-6 pick. Heck, even if we don't get ROR, we still may not pick in the top-6 if a few of these guys get their heads out of their *****. Then we're picking #12 again and we're analyzing Darnell Nurse v. Ryan Pulock, and we don't have O'Reilly.
Very good point. A lot of guys are playing below their potential right now. Not to mention O'Reilly makes us significantly better in an area we specifically need

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02-14-2013, 07:13 PM
  #46
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Any interest in Tallinder?

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Old
02-14-2013, 07:17 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Avs fan here, We were discussing Ennis and a few people mentioned he had suffered a concussion before now I'm a big fan of this kid and watch the Sabres quite a lot but I never heard of this concussion issue, so my question is, has he suffered a concussion before and if he has , how bad was it?

Also would you guy be down for Ennis+grigs for ROR and a prospect?
Absolutely not. That's a potential 1C + a 2nd liner (LW or C) for a better 2C. (Similar point production to Ennis but more size and obviously better defensive chops.)

I think a deal with Buffalo begins with one of: Sekera/Ennis
Then add one of: McNabb/Pysyk/McCabe/Catenacci?
And maybe some extra sweeteners: picks, lower tier prospects (Adam, Gauthier-Leduc, etc.)

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Old
02-14-2013, 07:17 PM
  #48
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Any interest in Tallinder?
Some. Gerbe + 2014 4th? (We traded our 2013 4th with Gaustad for Nashville's 2012 1st.)

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Old
02-14-2013, 07:22 PM
  #49
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O'Reilly's father criticized the Av's front office today on Twitter.


http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...twitter/12578/

In response to a person tweeting him today, probably over a question of “Will Ryan be back with the Avs?”, @coachbri1 said this: “sorry the ave’s (sic) don’t want him or place value on what he brings. They practice external control boss management.”

A little later, he also tweeted this, unprompted: “Sure he loved it there and thought the fans were the best. So many great players the ave’s dump because of their management style $$$$$.”

Please don't let him go to Toronto Darcy

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Old
02-14-2013, 07:23 PM
  #50
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Doubtful. Sounds like Colorado fans perceive that they have a real physicality problem in that conference, and they often get pushed around--sound familiar? Hishon hit notwithstanding, McNabb makes a lot more sense for them.
I think Colorado would reverse the roster player / prospect from the order we'd like it. Buffalo's deep in defensive prospects, but that's also where Colorado has some talent as well. From their perspective, getting a defenseman as the roster player and a forward as the prospect may make more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jame View Post
Ennis
Sekera

McNabb
McCabe
Pysyk

Picks
Adam
other stuff

yea... it's one of the first 2, 1 of the next 3, and then add sweeteners
Armia and Girgensons are probably in that second group as well.

If I were Colorado, I'd ask for Sekera and either Armia or Girgensons.

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