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Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:22 PM
  #276
SnowblindNYR
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What's with all the stuff about Richards not being about to play with Gaborik? He played his best hockey as a Ranger with Gaborik on his wing.

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02-14-2013, 04:22 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Nyrfan25 View Post
A leap ?
You don't like him since you think he won't become a 40 goal scorer !

lol
its amazing lol

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02-14-2013, 04:22 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I'm not suggesting handing him any role.

I'm suggesting putting him with the right kind of players.

You can't ask a guy who has never been the one to control the puck on his own, to suddenly do it now.

If you want him to use one of his two biggest assets (skating and shooting) more consistently, then you need a guy who can get him the puck on a consistent basis.

You stick him with guys who are not that kind of player, and stick him in a defensive role, you are not going to get the most out of him. Plain and simple.

Been saying this since we drafted him. He excels on the rush, and he excels at getting the puck around the net. Look where he scores. Rush. Net.

A coach needs to maximize EACH player's strengths.

Call it a role, call it what ever you want. I'm not looking at it from a line-1 to line-4 perspective. I'm looking at as a lineup, a full bench of players. Finding the combinations that work. Finding the balance that works.

This is a problem with Tortorella. Forcing things. Forcing forcing forcing.

Right now the only clear natural, unforced chemistry in the forward lines, despite winning three in a row, is Hagelin-Stepan-Nash.

Richards-Gaborik does not work. Gaborik on the left does not work. It took an injury to Callahan for Tortorella to finally stop forcing the Stepan-Callahan thing to work.

Kreider needs a guy like Richards.

If the staff doesn't want to get Kreider to score goals, then trade him.

They want to develop a scoring winger they need to put him with a guy who can get him the puck.

Richards is struggling right now too. Gaborik refuses to move his feet. Tortorella said as much yesterday.

Give Richards a kick in the ass, too, by putting a fast skating winger on his side, who can shoot.

Process process process.

If the process includes forcing a player to toil in a role that has nothing to do with his skill set, then maybe the "process" needs to be re-evaluated.

"We want the player to develop the right way." Well, guess what, what they're doing isn't the right way for this player.

And folks wonder why we haven't been able to develop a scoring winger. The Rangers are chicken **** to "hand" a larger role to any young forward, unless they are mostly devoid of any natural offensive skills. Stepan is the only young forward in memory, that was allowed to play above the third line, that is a skilled offensive forward. Maybe other then Prucha, who didn't last.

If the player is on the roster, give him the ****ing opportunity. Otherwise, don't have him.

His defensive play has not been bad. At all. He has had enough sense to cover for pinching defensemen. He Skates hard. He backchecks. Picks up open men on the backcheck. He's a +4 over the last 4 games. Now, allow his offensive skills to come out. They won't with no one to pass him the puck.

A line of Kreider-Richards-Callahan would work.

Instead we can continue to beat the limp horse that's Richards-Gaborik. It hasn't worked.
SSM with a veery good post. Hardly the 1st or last time

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:24 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
SSM with a veery good post. Hardly the 1st or last time
I agree SSM makes a lot of good points

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:25 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Outside of one nice rush and shot against Brodeur in garbage time, Kreider has done nothing to earn a permanent top 6 spot.

I, for one, am thankful we have a coach that makes players earn that privilege rather than handing it to them because of upside, potential, whatever.
If Gaborik and Staal could finish gimme chances he'd have 4 points in 4 games since coming up.

Also I like how you say it was garbage time, first of all when was he put with Richards? That's a legit question, I missed half the game. Second, did Brodeur stop playing because it was garbage time? It wasn't even garbage time. Teams have come back from 3-0 down in the 3rd before. See: Tuesday. Don't pretend like it's impossible that it'd happen to the Devils.

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02-14-2013, 04:28 PM
  #281
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Kreider needs to earn his spot ion the top-6. He hasn't. I thought he's looked very unimpressive out there, not nearly as good as he could look. He needs to assert himself a LOT more. No BS about 'linemates', it's not like he was playing with crap.

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:30 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
If Gaborik and Staal could finish gimme chances he'd have 4 points in 4 games since coming up.

Also I like how you say it was garbage time, first of all when was he put with Richards? That's a legit question, I missed half the game. Second, did Brodeur stop playing because it was garbage time? It wasn't even garbage time. Teams have come back from 3-0 down in the 3rd before. See: Tuesday. Don't pretend like it's impossible that it'd happen to the Devils.
Whats the ol' saying about politics? If you dont have an argument, make it about small things?

Sorry my garbage time reference has made for such a talking about. Kreider had a nice rush and shot with 13 minutes left in regulation, down 3-0.

Anyway, back to a real issue. That accounted for about 33% of the moment where Kreider has truly stuck out this season. He needs to do it more, and he needs to do it more consistently.

Handing him better linemates is almost never the answer.

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02-14-2013, 04:32 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Kreider needs to earn his spot ion the top-6. He hasn't. I thought he's looked very unimpressive out there, not nearly as good as he could look. He needs to assert himself a LOT more. No BS about 'linemates', it's not like he was playing with crap.
Unimpressive. Thats a good word for it.

This goes beyond points and goals scored, as most things do in this sport and a lot of people love to ignore. This is about Kreider focusing on the details and playing harder. That should be done every shift of every game no matter who your linemates are.

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02-14-2013, 04:32 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Kreider needs to earn his spot ion the top-6. He hasn't. I thought he's looked very unimpressive out there, not nearly as good as he could look. He needs to assert himself a LOT more. No BS about 'linemates', it's not like he was playing with crap.
I think Kreider looked bad the first 3 games but since returning he has been better. I dont think he is 100% yet in his ankle bone chips can take a while i had teh same injury in high school. My biggest problem with Torts is taht he hasnt really given the kid a chance to play through things. Lets be fair its not like he has been a liability. he hasnt turned the puck over and he hasnt allowed goals while he is on the ice. i think his defense and passing has been better. he really should ahve about 4 or 5 assists

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:33 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Whats the ol' saying about politics? If you dont have an argument, make it about small things?

Sorry my garbage time reference has made for such a talking about. Kreider had a nice rush and shot with 13 minutes left in regulation, down 3-0.

Anyway, back to a real issue. That accounted for about 33% of the moment where Kreider has truly stuck out this season. He needs to do it more, and he needs to do it more consistently.

Handing him better linemates is almost never the answer.
You completely ignore that he should have 4 points in the last 4 games. Even if you include points they should have had, who would have better production in the last 4 games than that? I can think of only Hags and Nash. If he's making things happen when he's not playing great what happens if he plays better and gets better linemates?

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02-14-2013, 04:35 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
You completely ignore that he should have 4 points in the last 4 games. Even if you include points they should have had, who would have better production in the last 4 games than that? I can think of only Hags and Nash. If he's making things happen when he's not playing great what happens if he plays better and gets better linemates?
I apologize for completely ignoring your alternate reality. I will try to be better next time.

As I said, Kreider's issues go far beyond points scored anyway.

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:37 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I apologize for completely ignoring your alternate reality. I will try to be better next time.

As I said, Kreider's issues go far beyond points scored anyway.

I dont have a problem with you being critical. I never said Kreider was a 1st liner this year he needs work but it seems like you never have anything positive about the kid. I mean even in terms of upside. Maybe Im wrong and If i am i apologize but maybe it seems like he isnt one of your favorites rangers?

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02-14-2013, 04:40 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
I dont have a problem with you being critical. I never said Kreider was a 1st liner this year he needs work but it seems like you never have anything positive about the kid. I mean even in terms of upside. Maybe Im wrong and If i am i apologize but maybe he seems liek he isnt one of your favorites rangers?
Hes played less than 30 games as a Ranger. I dont know how anyone could be amongst a "favorite Ranger" with such inexperience. I've seen plenty of other people fall in love with a rookie with no experience, but I never could.

More importantly, being critical of a player and wanting them to prove themselves first is far too often mistaken for "hate." I have no reason to hate or dislike Kreider, just like I have no reason to like him.

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:43 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hes played less than 30 games as a Ranger. I dont know how anyone could be amongst a "favorite Ranger" with such inexperience. I've seen plenty of other people fall in love with a rookie with no experience, but I never could.

More importantly, being critical of a player and wanting them to prove themselves first is far too often mistaken for "hate." I have no reason to hate or dislike Kreider, just like I have no reason to like him.

I dont think we have to worry about you liking him i doubt that will happen lol

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Old
02-14-2013, 06:07 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I apologize for completely ignoring your alternate reality. I will try to be better next time.

As I said, Kreider's issues go far beyond points scored anyway.
My alternate reality. Ok, you're talking about him being invisible which is not seen in stats I'm telling you about the chances he created which is not seen in stats. What's the problem?

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02-14-2013, 06:08 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
My alternate reality. Ok, you're talking about him being invisible which is not seen in stats I'm telling you about the chances he created which is not seen in stats. What's the problem?

There are some who just dont liek him which is crazy since all Rangers fan should love having young talent with such high ceilings

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02-14-2013, 06:12 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
There are some who just dont liek him which is crazy since all Rangers fan should love having young talent with such high ceilings
You can be excited about his future prospects while still being realistic about his current limitations.

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02-14-2013, 06:20 PM
  #293
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You can be excited about his future prospects while still being realistic about his current limitations.
I dont think he has gotten a fair shot yet this season

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02-14-2013, 06:32 PM
  #294
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I dont think he has gotten a fair shot yet this season
Neither do I.

Not saying Tortorella hates the kid, but he clearly has issues with his defense or lack there of.

It's defense first when it comes to this coach. That's why Miller is seemingly already a favorite.



I remember a Tortorella interview prior to the start of the season. He was asked what he did during the lockout. He said he watched the Whale a lot, but had to stop because "I started to form opinions about certain players".
Not certain he was referring to Kreider but it's possible

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02-14-2013, 06:35 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Neither do I.

Not saying Tortorella hates the kid, but he clearly has issues with his defense or lack there of.

It's defense first when it comes to this coach. That's why Miller is seemingly already a favorite.



I remember a Tortorella interview prior to the start of the season. He was asked what he did during the lockout. He said he watched the Whale a lot, but had to stop because "I started to form opinions about certain players".
Not certain he was referring to Kreider but it's possible
There is no question he dislikes Kreider. The funny thing is that his defense has gotten better. The poor kid is really sacrificing to be better defensive player but he cant catch a break with Torts. Eve last year Kreider was a main reason we got past ottawa and torts never really gave the kid credit. I mean i like Miller but he has had a lot of lapses yet Torts gives him a pass. My fear is that Torts will push to trade him and he will end up on boston or jesey and he will become the player we all think he can be

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02-14-2013, 06:40 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
There is no question he dislikes Kreider. The funny thing is that his defense has gotten better. The poor kid is really sacrificing to be better defensive player but he cant catch a break with Torts. Eve last year Kreider was a main reason we got past ottawa and torts never really gave the kid credit. I mean i like Miller but he has had a lot of lapses yet Torts gives him a pass. My fear is that Torts will push to trade him and he will end up on boston or jesey and he will become the player we all think he can be
Torts is just showing him tough love. No way we're trading him either, given our cap situation.

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02-14-2013, 07:01 PM
  #297
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Good first period by Boyle IMO.

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02-14-2013, 07:32 PM
  #298
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"Give a 'perennial' 40 goal scorer slack"?

No.

When a player is paid like a leader he needs to be a leader. When a player is relied on to be your best player, he better be your best player.

Slack?

If resting on laurels is your bag, I can reference you to the 98-2004 vacation resort Rangers.

Plain and simple, Gaborik's play is inexcusable. He has one point in seven games. He doesn't skate. Tortorella agrees.

http://snyrangersblog.com/2012-13-pl...-carl-hagelin/

Kreider's defense has been bad? I swear to God some have either never played before or never coached before. Kreider, a rookie 21 year old has not been "bad" defensively. He's been OK. He's learning. He's starting to read plays and cover missed assignments by other players. He's been good in the neutral zone. He hasn't hurt the team at all. Certainly not enough to warrant a scratch. Certainly not enough to warrant not getting a chance to have a player next to him that can get him the puck when he's wide ****ing open in the high slot or coming down the wing on the transition.

The expectation level for Gaborik shouldn't be high? But for a 21 year old rookie they should be astronomical?

Kreider should be playing with a center that can get him the puck. Plain and simple. Let him play and learn. There will be growing pains.

Can't punish him by taking him out of the lineup or benching him EVERY mistake he makes. Hagelin took stupid penalty after stupid penalty and was awarded time with Nash and he took off.

Gaborik scores tonight against the Islanders. Second point in 8 games.

Double standards everywhere.

****ing blow a 2 goal lead against this bottom feeding team. So glad a promising young scoring winger was scratched. Totally worth it.

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02-14-2013, 07:35 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
"Give a 'perennial' 40 goal scorer slack"?

No.

When a player is paid like a leader he needs to be a leader. When a player is relied on to be your best player, he better be your best player.

Slack?

If resting on laurels is your bag, I can reference you to the 98-2004 vacation resort Rangers.

Plain and simple, Gaborik's play is inexcusable. He has one point in seven games. He doesn't skate. Tortorella agrees.

http://snyrangersblog.com/2012-13-pl...-carl-hagelin/

Kreider's defense has been bad? I swear to God some have either never played before or never coached before. Kreider, a rookie 21 year old has not been "bad" defensively. He's been OK. He's learning. He's starting to read plays and cover missed assignments by other players. He's been good in the neutral zone. He hasn't hurt the team at all. Certainly not enough to warrant a scratch. Certainly not enough to warrant not getting a chance to have a player next to him that can get him the puck when he's wide ****ing open in the high slot or coming down the wing on the transition.

The expectation level for Gaborik shouldn't be high? But for a 21 year old rookie they should be astronomical?

Kreider should be playing with a center that can get him the puck. Plain and simple. Let him play and learn. There will be growing pains.

Can't punish him by taking him out of the lineup or benching him EVERY mistake he makes. Hagelin took stupid penalty after stupid penalty and was awarded time with Nash and he took off.

Gaborik scores tonight against the Islanders. Second point in 8 games.

Double standards everywhere.

****ing blow a 2 goal lead against this bottom feeding team. So glad a promising young scoring winger was scratched. Totally worth it.

You are definetly one of the smarter posters on here i agree with you

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02-14-2013, 07:36 PM
  #300
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I love the reasoning being that Kreider "didn't do a lot." He might be able to do more if he played more than 6 minutes a night.

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