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Roster/trade/etc discussion part IV

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Old
02-14-2013, 04:21 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by Jesus Teemu View Post
I think this is the perfect way for Holland to be introduced into a scoring role. Playing with those two should give him a lot of confidence.
That's a two way street. Playing with productive players also carries expectations, and inevitably pressure. He'll have to deal with that sooner or later anyway.

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02-14-2013, 04:45 PM
  #627
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Duckscolorman: #NHLDucks practice lines: Beleskey-Getzlaf-Perry, Ryan-Holland-Selanne, Cogliano-Koivu-Winnik, Maroon-Bonino-Palmieri-Staubitz.

Don't know what it'll take for Palmieri to stick on the 1st
Palmieri has somewhat struggled IMO the past few games. He's not very good at bringing the puck up the ice by himself and he fumbles the puck a lot more than he should. His best asset is his shot but he's going to have to learn to go to the dirty areas. I didn't see as many games last year as this year, but I remember a few comparing him to Perry in some regards. Not sure how much he's changed, but that's very inaccurate based on this season IMO. He's gonna have to forecheck better. Beleskey is the better forechecker and grinder. I liked him on 2nd line.

If Holland struggles, I'd like to see him go to Getz and Perry's wing.

Holland-Getz-Perry
Palmieri-Ryan-Selanne
Winnik-Koivu-Selanne
Beleskey-Bonino-Maroon/Staubitz

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02-14-2013, 05:16 PM
  #628
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just thinking it worth a thougth should we make a serious move for Ryan O'Rielliy from the Avs since he dont want to sign there and solve that second line C spot, Holland + ?

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02-14-2013, 05:29 PM
  #629
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They aren't trading him to a team in the western conference.

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02-14-2013, 05:40 PM
  #630
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Meh, if they get an offer they like they'll do it. It may not be ideal but it's worse business to cut one's customers by half.

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02-14-2013, 05:59 PM
  #631
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Be prepared to wait, then.

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02-14-2013, 06:15 PM
  #632
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I'd like to see us make an offer for ROR. Maybe try and trade them William Karlsson and a 2nd round pick? Not sure if that would get it done or not...I think we have the resources to make a trade

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02-14-2013, 06:17 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
They aren't trading him to a team in the western conference.
They might. Just because ROR wants to go East doesn't mean the Avs have to trade him there. I wouldn't be surprised if he was traded to a Western conference team and then signed there

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02-14-2013, 06:41 PM
  #634
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They might. Just because ROR wants to go East doesn't mean the Avs have to trade him there. I wouldn't be surprised if he was traded to a Western conference team and then signed there
ROR isn't the one that wants to go East. The Avs want to send him there.

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02-14-2013, 06:44 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Palmieri has somewhat struggled IMO the past few games. He's not very good at bringing the puck up the ice by himself and he fumbles the puck a lot more than he should. His best asset is his shot but he's going to have to learn to go to the dirty areas. I didn't see as many games last year as this year, but I remember a few comparing him to Perry in some regards. Not sure how much he's changed, but that's very inaccurate based on this season IMO. He's gonna have to forecheck better. Beleskey is the better forechecker and grinder. I liked him on 2nd line.

If Holland struggles, I'd like to see him go to Getz and Perry's wing.

Holland-Getz-Perry
Palmieri-Ryan-Selanne
Winnik-Koivu-Selanne
Beleskey-Bonino-Maroon/Staubitz
It does seem like Palmieri played his best on that line.

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02-14-2013, 06:51 PM
  #636
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Open question to everyone on the trade boards thread wanting to trade Sbisa + for ROR - what makes anyone think that's a good idea? Fowler may not play again this year, there's no telling with concussions (obviously I hope I'm wrong). The replacements are Guenin (#6-7), Vatanen (not ready, plays a different game regardless), Clark (not ready), Lindholm (also may not play this year, no idea if he's ready). Defense immediately turns into a question mark. It also means that next year there's a shortage of proven players, requiring either Lydman be re-signed or the Ducks roll with multiple youngsters and just hope it all works out. For a guy who wants so much salary that they won't be able to re-sign Ryan (assuming they manage to keep Perry and Getzlaf). I'm just not seeing the upside to trading a roster player for a shiny new toy.

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02-14-2013, 07:09 PM
  #637
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I would trade Sbisa for o'reiley (sp). Sbisa seems to be held back in the brain department, and reaching potential without that component isnt exactly a likely proposition. That isn't to say he will be a bad player, but I think he'll be a number four, maybe three.

ROR's don't generally get traded. He's smart, he's one of the most dedicated, and plays the games most important position outside of in the net, and also the toughest to replace/inherit. I make that trade without thinking twice, frankly.

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02-14-2013, 07:17 PM
  #638
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So then, as to the question of the defense? And the team salary structure?

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02-14-2013, 07:23 PM
  #639
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I would want to know more about the issues ROR has with the Avs. If it's personal and once he leaves everything is fine, then OK I could be interested. But if he is going to be a problem anywhere he goes (of course he and the team will deny he would be) then I don't want him at any price. BM needs to have a good read on that before engaging in any trade talks. He also needs to resolve Perry and Getz first. It would be a slap in the face to those two to put them aside and focus on another team's problem child first.

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02-14-2013, 07:33 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
So then, as to the question of the defense? And the team salary structure?
It would hurt, and I agree somewhat that with the construct of the present team the trade isn't ideal, but the value is too hard for me to pass up if my opinion of Sbisa is accurate.

Truthfully, I'd rather have Ryan's salary at the center position, so I'd look to trade him if/when the twins are locked up. If they aren't, then the salary problem is moot. Defensemen are easier to draft/sign, so that isn't a huge concern to me.

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02-14-2013, 07:41 PM
  #641
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Not only that, but a trade of ryan for a stud dman would do the trick as well. Cheap wingers, money down the middle and top four. That sounds like a better business plan to me.

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02-14-2013, 07:48 PM
  #642
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So, in potentially Selanne's last year, when the team is in 2nd in the league, and your two best players unsigned UFA's, you trade the guy you just publicly assured you wanted on the team, dismantle the defense and completely retool the 2nd line mid season?

Seems like a good way to miss the playoffs and have ROR as your 1C next year to me.

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02-14-2013, 08:23 PM
  #643
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Open question to everyone on the trade boards thread wanting to trade Sbisa + for ROR - what makes anyone think that's a good idea? Fowler may not play again this year, there's no telling with concussions (obviously I hope I'm wrong). The replacements are Guenin (#6-7), Vatanen (not ready, plays a different game regardless), Clark (not ready), Lindholm (also may not play this year, no idea if he's ready). Defense immediately turns into a question mark. It also means that next year there's a shortage of proven players, requiring either Lydman be re-signed or the Ducks roll with multiple youngsters and just hope it all works out. For a guy who wants so much salary that they won't be able to re-sign Ryan (assuming they manage to keep Perry and Getzlaf). I'm just not seeing the upside to trading a roster player for a shiny new toy.

I just threw it out there as a value proposal, and they said that theyd want Fowler+ and that was the end of it. Id only propose it IF Fowler is back and healthy anyways, so right now its a moot point. And with the way we are playing right now, Im not making a trade of any sorts.

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02-14-2013, 08:27 PM
  #644
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
So, in potentially Selanne's last year, when the team is in 2nd in the league, and your two best players unsigned UFA's, you trade the guy you just publicly assured you wanted on the team, dismantle the defense and completely retool the 2nd line mid season?

Seems like a good way to miss the playoffs and have ROR as your 1C next year to me.
I trade Sbisa for ROR. If that's 'dismantling the defense', then dismantle has been having parties I've not been invited to.

Second, no, I wouldn't trade Ryan during the year, I trade him in the offseason depending on what happens with the other two, as previously stated. If ROR signed for 4.5 then that would be an addition of what, two million this year? Doesn't seem crazy.

Successful teams have made much larger trades than a 5th defenseman for a second line center.

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02-14-2013, 08:35 PM
  #645
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Moving Ryan is a big mistake IMO. Even if Getz and perry re-sign. Like it or not, Ryan is going to become extremely vital to our success, whether its at wing or center. This is if Selanne ever retires.

I have always thought Sbisa was overrated here. I like how the team is seeing what holland can do cause If they are considering going for RoR, I'd imagine he's part of the deal. Sbisa to me isn't top pair potential. He just seems to lack confidence and complete awareness of a top defenseman. Does it hurt the defense? Yeah it does, but Sbisa is also currently our 5th defenseman so it doesn't hurt it severely IMO. I should also point out that I don't believe fowler will miss entire season and I don't move Sbisa until fowler returns. So yeah it hurts the defensive depth, but we have A LOT of money invested in our defense. Basically one of Vatanen, Lindholm, or Lovejoy would have to be a full time bottom pairing defenseman and believe one is capable of doing it. Plus the difference of Sbisa and one of the three is greatly made up for by the offense with the addition to the top six.

My biggest issue aside from Fowler's injury is Ryan at center. Personally i think he's done well there, and I'd like to see him get more time. If he continues to do well, I look for another impact winger or possibly just a rental where I don't have to move Sbisa. However if bb is already taking Ryan out of the spot, then maybe his mind is made up.

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02-14-2013, 08:46 PM
  #646
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Production. He's a -3 with no points in his last 5 games.
And Beleskey has 1 goal in 12 games this season. The first line IMO has looked much better with Palmieri on it than Beleskey.

Sometimes I wonder if Palmieri kicked Boudreau's dog or something. He's not getting the minutes I think he's earned and is always the first to be moved even when he looks good in his role.

As for Sbisa for ROR I would do it. We'd have to add but I doubt it's too much. I don't think it weakens the defensive group that much - Sbisa is only really playing a #5 role for us so far this season. If Fowler is out the whole year I might hesitate but I'm hoping that's not the case.

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02-14-2013, 08:55 PM
  #647
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I trade Sbisa for ROR. If that's 'dismantling the defense', then dismantle has been having parties I've not been invited to.

Second, no, I wouldn't trade Ryan during the year, I trade him in the offseason depending on what happens with the other two, as previously stated. If ROR signed for 4.5 then that would be an addition of what, two million this year? Doesn't seem crazy.

Successful teams have made much larger trades than a 5th defenseman for a second line center.
My concerns are that there's currently a #7 playing the #6. So there will instead be a #7 at the #5, an AHL at the #6, and (the real rub) one #2 and 3 #3-4's playing the 1-4. Teams that trade their #5 and do well generally have a legitimate top pairing - the Ducks have a bunch of overachievers and old men. What happens if Souray falls off after 20 games like he did in Dallas? What happens if/when another defenseman gets injured? At this point I believe Fowler plays when he actually plays, and his conditioning will be pretty poor for a while.

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02-14-2013, 09:00 PM
  #648
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My concerns are that there's currently a #7 playing the #6. So there will instead be a #7 at the #5, an AHL at the #6, and (the real rub) one #2 and 3 #3-4's playing the 1-4. Teams that trade their #5 and do well generally have a legitimate top pairing - the Ducks have a bunch of overachievers and old men. What happens if Souray falls off after 20 games like he did in Dallas? What happens if/when another defenseman gets injured? At this point I believe Fowler plays when he actually plays, and his conditioning will be pretty poor for a while.
If Souray or any of the other top four guys bomb then the team is screwed regardless. It's not as if Sbisa, playing as he is, steps in and saves the day.

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02-14-2013, 09:05 PM
  #649
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And Beleskey has 1 goal in 12 games this season. The first line IMO has looked much better with Palmieri on it than Beleskey.

Sometimes I wonder if Palmieri kicked Boudreau's dog or something. He's not getting the minutes I think he's earned and is always the first to be moved even when he looks good in his role.

As for Sbisa for ROR I would do it. We'd have to add but I doubt it's too much. I don't think it weakens the defensive group that much - Sbisa is only really playing a #5 role for us so far this season. If Fowler is out the whole year I might hesitate but I'm hoping that's not the case.
I'm not saying Beleskey is any kind of answer but Palmieri is certainly less physical. With the number of comebacks the Ducks have pulled off with the line juggling its honestly hard to criticize Boudreau. And there's no reason to think he's kicked Boudreau's dog, he just isn't performing. A rookie isn't going to be allowed to hang out on a top line all the time if he's not doing anything, but he gets put back in the top 6 the next game repeatedly, so it's not like he's stayed in the doghouse. He's 9th in TOI for forwards - whose ice time would you cut to give him more?

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02-14-2013, 09:08 PM
  #650
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If Souray or any of the other top four guys bomb then the team is screwed regardless. It's not as if Sbisa, playing as he is, steps in and saves the day.
Sbisa is eating 19:25 in ice time every night. Take that out and you have to either replace it with AHL guy or significantly increase the old guys' ice time - increasing fatigue, increasing mistakes as they play past where they should and making an injury more likely.

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