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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXXII - Kessel Run Edition

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Old
02-14-2013, 11:48 PM
  #726
Winroba
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No GM is stupid enough to offer sheet him for a 1 year deal.
yeah, but he's not gonna sign anything else unless it's stupidly over the top

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02-14-2013, 11:56 PM
  #727
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Not sure why this "soft" tag is attached to Ribiero...he plays physical, he's chippy and he gets his nose dirty.
Soft meaning he dives worse then Kesler, Dustin Brown and the rest of the Kings put together. He's really easily put off his game especially if things don't go his way. See a game against the Jets this year, he kept whining and whining and whining to the refs all game long about the same call. That's not the type of player you want on your team.

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02-15-2013, 12:03 AM
  #728
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Vermette could be a decent option too for the 3rd line if the Yotes are sliding. He's making 3.75 for 2 more seasons though.

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Old
02-15-2013, 12:07 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I just don't like him. I don't like the way he plays the game, and yes he is a soft player. Hes talented, but like Semin I just don't want him here.
13GP 3G 7A 10Pts 12pim +11

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02-15-2013, 12:10 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
I still think we need another centre, and I'm sure Gillis will target one at the deadline.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows/Kassian
Booth - Kesler - Hansen/Kassian/Burrows
Raymond - Schroeder - Kassian/Hansen
Weise - Lappy - Volpatti

Looks ok for the time being, but given how the team has been constructed you know that the team likes to roll with a LH centreman for side specific defensive zone draws.

Schroeder has been a pleasant surprise, but I don't think he's an ideal option for the rigours of the playoffs in the Western conference - at least not yet.

We've been at our most successful (2011) when we had a premier shutdown 3rd line C, which freed Kesler to play more of a two-way game (while coincidentally scoring 40 goals and winning the Selke). The team went and traded for Pahlson last year as they wanted the same thing.

Not sure who they'd target, but apart from Cullen another player I think that could be had for cheap would be Boyd Gordon (already mentioned I think), as well as Matt Hendricks.
Sorry was bugging me, you are missing Higgins.


Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Higgins - Lappy - Weise/Volpatti

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Old
02-15-2013, 12:59 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Except that all but one of their regular faceoff men have better percentages on the road than at home this season.

Last season there was more of a discrepancy, but regardless, Gomez is head and shoulders the best faceoff man on the team so far. Even if the stats are inflated, he's probably not worse than 55-58% right now if you were to adjust the team's faceoff percentages downward to account.

Yup. He's done above what is expected of him. The same people that were off on him are still off. For a cheap contract, you could do far worse.

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02-15-2013, 01:06 AM
  #732
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I don't think Booth and Kesler mesh well. At least from what we've seen.

Assuming the Sedins stay together (and I think they should be separated 5-on-5) this is what I'd have into the playoffs:

Burrows - Kesler - Hansen (Top ES minutes and playing against the other team's top line)
Sedin - Sedin - Kassian (Kassian creating space for the twins)
Raymond - Schroeder - Booth (Shroeder and Raymond can benefit if Booth can create space)
Higgins - Lappy - Weise (Higgins can move throughout the lineup)

In fact that bottom line can have Raymond and Hansen rotating in place of Weise if the Canucks want to roll with 11 forwards and give Weise just a handful of shifts. That said, Weise is improving and AV needs to stay on him to be physical every night first, and try to score second.

Rough guesses for average TOI:

Kesler should lead the team playing 20 mins per night (including PP and PK)
Sedins should have 18-19 Mins each
Hansen, Raymond and Burrows at ~17-18 mins each
Schroeder, Higgins and Booth at 14-15 minutes depending on PP and PK usage
Lappy at 10-13 minutes
Weise 8-10 minutes

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Old
02-15-2013, 01:20 AM
  #733
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
With a cap of $64M we could ice this roster:

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Burrows
Jensen-Schroeder-Hansen
Volpatti-Lapierre-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Tanev
Garrison-Corrado

Schneider
Lack

And still have just over $5M for a couple spares and to accommodate what we get in a Luongo and Ballard trade. Getting rid of Booth would allow us to target someone line Perry.

This is assuming Schroeder re-signs for $1.25M, Lapierre re-signs for $1.5M, Weise or equivalent is back at $700k, Volpatti or equivalent is here for $600k, and Tanev re-signs for $1.75M.


You're going to have to show me a capgeek verification on that. The past mocks I have seen essentially replace Jensen with Higgins, and leave the team with about 2.5m in space. So a 1.5m change to what you have there. Doing what you did adds 1.5m to 2.5m, resulting in 4m in space, not 5m.

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02-15-2013, 01:33 AM
  #734
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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Mason Raymond ($3.000m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.025m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.300m) / Dale Weise ($0.777m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Alexander Edler ($5.000m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.688m) / Chris Tanev ($1.650m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,759,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $541,000
------




That's a roster made to retain most of the pieces here for amounts discussed. Essentially the same team, but with Ballard and Luongo dealt without salary coming back.

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Old
02-15-2013, 01:57 AM
  #735
vanuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Mason Raymond ($3.000m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.025m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.300m) / Dale Weise ($0.777m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Alexander Edler ($5.000m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.688m) / Chris Tanev ($1.650m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,759,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $541,000
------




That's a roster made to retain most of the pieces here for amounts discussed. Essentially the same team, but with Ballard and Luongo dealt without salary coming back.
This would seem to make sense. If Raymond keeps up his pace (likely won't) he's easily worth 3M at least.

That Higgins - Lapierre - Weise line could be a secondary checking line that can also play as well. A lot of options for AV.

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:05 AM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
This would seem to make sense. If Raymond keeps up his pace (likely won't) he's easily worth 3M at least.

That Higgins - Lapierre - Weise line could be a secondary checking line that can also play as well. A lot of options for AV.


With a 22 man roster, you can even replace 1 player on that roster with Eller and have an even better team. It just so happens he's being rumoured in talks around the league - per the main T&R thread.

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:12 AM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
I don't think Booth and Kesler mesh well. At least from what we've seen.
Thought they looked like a great line when Kassian played his way onto it last season and given Kassian's emergence , i see that line being very good.

Booth and Kesler both like to shoot. Kassian is a rare playmaking winger.

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:24 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
With a 22 man roster, you can even replace 1 player on that roster with Eller and have an even better team. It just so happens he's being rumoured in talks around the league - per the main T&R thread.
Don't think we'll be seeing that 22 man roster though. Gillis loves his 8th dmen. Also think you're being a little generous with that raise to Tanev. If Alzner gets a 2 year bridge deal at $1.285 million per year in a $64 million dollar cap I doubt Tanev gets more than that. Defensive defensemen going into their second contract (not arbitration eligible IIRC) have little to no leverage.

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:26 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by pseudonymous01 View Post
Thought they looked like a great line when Kassian played his way onto it last season and given Kassian's emergence , i see that line being very good.

Booth and Kesler both like to shoot. Kassian is a rare playmaking winger.

IMHO Kesler is at his best when he is a defensive beast, taking the puck away and scoring on counterattacks, or by being a forechecking machine. Having a line with him, Hansen and Burrows makes the most sense to me, given that he will get the tough defensive assignments as long as Henrik and JS are the other centers.

If Kesler plays well defensively, his offense will take care of itself. He's at his worst when he's trying to be Mr. Offense.

Plus, neither Booth or Kassian are at par with Burrows and Hansen defensively. Especially not Booth. A line of Burrows-Kesler-Hansen would be very tough to play against and would have to be our "go-to" line against the other team's top line. I think Hansen is really stepping up this year and deserves to play top 6 minutes.

I also think two creative passing guys like Raymond and JS would benefit Booth. In any event, IMO Booth is not good enough to be playing more minutes than Hansen and Raymond, and perhaps even Higgins - who could slot into JS or Kesler's line in a heartbeat.

And I really want to see Kassian prevent the Sedins from taking cheapshots by opposing d-men.

Nice to have depth, isn't it!

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:29 AM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Mason Raymond ($3.000m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.025m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.300m) / Dale Weise ($0.777m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Alexander Edler ($5.000m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.688m) / Chris Tanev ($1.650m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,759,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $541,000
------




That's a roster made to retain most of the pieces here for amounts discussed. Essentially the same team, but with Ballard and Luongo dealt without salary coming back.
I like the forwards but I don't think we should be putting Connauton into the sixth defenseman spot. Everything I have read has said that he has had an awful year on the wolves. I doubt he could be a decent seventh defenseman never mind a sixth.

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02-15-2013, 02:32 AM
  #741
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Originally Posted by CanadianPirate View Post
I like the forwards but I don't think we should be putting Connauton into the sixth defenseman spot. Everything I have read has said that he has had an awful year on the wolves. I doubt he could be a decent seventh defenseman never mind a sixth.
Agree about Connauton. Ideally we can get a good young D on an ELC back in a Luongo/Ballard trade.

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02-15-2013, 03:02 AM
  #742
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Don't think we'll be seeing that 22 man roster though. Gillis loves his 8th dmen. Also think you're being a little generous with that raise to Tanev. If Alzner gets a 2 year bridge deal at $1.285 million per year in a $64 million dollar cap I doubt Tanev gets more than that. Defensive defensemen going into their second contract (not arbitration eligible IIRC) have little to no leverage.


Revised:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Mason Raymond ($3.000m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.051m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($2.400m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.100m) / Dale Weise ($0.701m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Alexander Edler ($5.000m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Chris Campoli ($0.700m) / Chris Tanev ($1.250m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.600m) / Kevin Connauton ($0.688m)
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,708,500; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $591,500
------



Fits everyone in and gives a few some extra money. 23 man roster.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:04 AM
  #743
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No GM is stupid enough to offer sheet him for a 1 year deal.
Not a comparable but St. Louis offer sheeted Bernier just to piss Gillis off.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:06 AM
  #744
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Mike Ribeiro would be swell. Gives Booth/Raymond somebody to play with, and takes some burden off of both Kesler + Henrik. It's really too bad that Booth/Raymond don't work with the Sedin's as it would give AV more options.

Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - David Booth
Mason Raymond - Mike Ribeiro - Jannik Hansen
Alexandre Burrows - Ryan Kesler - Zack Kassian
Chris Higgins - Maxim Lapierre - Dale Weise
Volpatti/Schroeder

Too many guys with similar skill sets competing for the same roles.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:19 AM
  #745
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Not a comparable but St. Louis offer sheeted Bernier just to piss Gillis off.
I believe it was a retaliatory move in response to Gillis sending an offer sheet to Backes.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:22 AM
  #746
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Originally Posted by Edler Von Gud View Post
Rather just offer sheet him...if you piss off a divison rival so what not like we make many deals with them anyway. I'm actually shocked no team has gone this route yet.
Nobody has done this because it's stupid and exactly what the Avs would want to happen.


See the Shea Weber case for a recent example.


If a team OfferSheets ROR the Avs just match and they've got him bound to a contract and he has to report to the team. If the offer sheet is in excess of the ~$5 ROR wants...it's huge ridiculous compensation and the Avs just walk away with an enormous haul of picks to continue their rebuild with...out of a 2nd rounder. Either way, they win.

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02-15-2013, 03:39 AM
  #747
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Vermette could be a decent option too for the 3rd line if the Yotes are sliding. He's making 3.75 for 2 more seasons though.
Heck, Vermette would be a decent option for the 2nd line LW too, in addition to potentially being among the best '3rd line Centers' in the league. He's a 2nd line center on a lot of teams, but he can also play very well as a winger and his style of play would probably complement Kesler's game better than Booth honestly. There's not really much of a size drop off, he's a great skater, and Vermette is no stranger to going to the net to score goals. Worlds above Booth defensively. And i think Vermette's passing and vision on the ice are better than what Booth brings to the table.

Vermette is also a very good LH faceoff guy and can play PK or PP and look quite at home on either.

$3.75M is a very very good deal for what he can offer. I'm still mad Gillis didn't go after him last year instead of Pahlsson at the deadline...especially given that the price for Vermette was so pathetic. I was harping on that all season, and it didn't happen.

A 2nd, 5th and McBackup the AHL goaltender?

One of Gillis' biggest misses imo.

But i don't see Phoenix letting Vermette go at this point, so it's basically a moot point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
IMHO Kesler is at his best when he is a defensive beast, taking the puck away and scoring on counterattacks, or by being a forechecking machine. Having a line with him, Hansen and Burrows makes the most sense to me, given that he will get the tough defensive assignments as long as Henrik and JS are the other centers.

If Kesler plays well defensively, his offense will take care of itself. He's at his worst when he's trying to be Mr. Offense.

Plus, neither Booth or Kassian are at par with Burrows and Hansen defensively. Especially not Booth. A line of Burrows-Kesler-Hansen would be very tough to play against and would have to be our "go-to" line against the other team's top line. I think Hansen is really stepping up this year and deserves to play top 6 minutes.

I also think two creative passing guys like Raymond and JS would benefit Booth. In any event, IMO Booth is not good enough to be playing more minutes than Hansen and Raymond, and perhaps even Higgins - who could slot into JS or Kesler's line in a heartbeat.

And I really want to see Kassian prevent the Sedins from taking cheapshots by opposing d-men.

Nice to have depth, isn't it!
Agreed on Kesler being at his best neutralizing other top offensive players. It just seems to get him so much more engaged in the game and Kesler is the type of player who absolutely feeds off that engagement. I think building our lines around that sort of premise is definitely the best way to go.

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02-15-2013, 04:19 AM
  #748
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Heck, Vermette would be a decent option for the 2nd line LW too, in addition to potentially being among the best '3rd line Centers' in the league. He's a 2nd line center on a lot of teams, but he can also play very well as a winger and his style of play would probably complement Kesler's game better than Booth honestly. There's not really much of a size drop off, he's a great skater, and Vermette is no stranger to going to the net to score goals. Worlds above Booth defensively. And i think Vermette's passing and vision on the ice are better than what Booth brings to the table.

Vermette is also a very good LH faceoff guy and can play PK or PP and look quite at home on either.

$3.75M is a very very good deal for what he can offer. I'm still mad Gillis didn't go after him last year instead of Pahlsson at the deadline...especially given that the price for Vermette was so pathetic. I was harping on that all season, and it didn't happen.

A 2nd, 5th and McBackup the AHL goaltender?

One of Gillis' biggest misses imo.

But i don't see Phoenix letting Vermette go at this point, so it's basically a moot point.


Maybe Gillis didn't feel Vermette was worth a top 60 pick? It all comes down to what they value Gillis places on those picks. When they dealt a 2nd and 3rd for Bernier, they thought they could develop his into a top6 PWF... a notoriously hard position to fill. With Vermette, it's dealing a top60 pick for a 3rd line C _here_... and a rather expensive 3C at that. I can see how that isn't worth it to them.


When you say Vermette's play would compliment Kesler better, do you mean by placing him at LW? I've seen him play quite a bit. I was a fan since is OTT days, but he plays like a C, not a LW. That's his natural position. So are you proposing Kesler move to wing?


The difference with Booth is acquisition cost. Booth went for peanuts. A 2nd, by comparison, is worth a lot more. Booth also plays much heavier than Vermette does. Vermette is more in the mould of Raymond, than he is Booth. Likely, a player that gets cancelled along the walls. If not handed an abundance of minutes, he's likely to be a .5 PPG player. Maybe 45~points over 82 games. If Booth gives you a .5 PPG pace, playing the more natural LW position, with the style change, coupled with the much lower acquisition cost, I still go with Booth.


Now, in addition to Booth, he would have been decent pick-up. But it probably costs this team a Higgins/Raymond in the process. Where as now, you could maintain a roster with both even after a cap drop.

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Old
02-15-2013, 04:42 AM
  #749
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Soft meaning he dives worse then Kesler, Dustin Brown and the rest of the Kings put together. He's really easily put off his game especially if things don't go his way. See a game against the Jets this year, he kept whining and whining and whining to the refs all game long about the same call. That's not the type of player you want on your team.
So the definition of "soft" now means someone who dives? Guess Kesler and Brown are soft players too if that's the case.

Plus your hyperbole is pushing epic proportions by suggesting he dives more than Brown and the rest of the Kings. Yes, he's been known to dive but so have Kesler, Burrows and the Sedins.

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02-15-2013, 05:01 AM
  #750
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Maybe Gillis didn't feel Vermette was worth a top 60 pick? It all comes down to what they value Gillis places on those picks. When they dealt a 2nd and 3rd for Bernier, they thought they could develop his into a top6 PWF... a notoriously hard position to fill. With Vermette, it's dealing a top60 pick for a 3rd line C _here_... and a rather expensive 3C at that. I can see how that isn't worth it to them.


When you say Vermette's play would compliment Kesler better, do you mean by placing him at LW? I've seen him play quite a bit. I was a fan since is OTT days, but he plays like a C, not a LW. That's his natural position. So are you proposing Kesler move to wing?


The difference with Booth is acquisition cost. Booth went for peanuts. A 2nd, by comparison, is worth a lot more. Booth also plays much heavier than Vermette does. Vermette is more in the mould of Raymond, than he is Booth. Likely, a player that gets cancelled along the walls. If not handed an abundance of minutes, he's likely to be a .5 PPG player. Maybe 45~points over 82 games. If Booth gives you a .5 PPG pace, playing the more natural LW position, with the style change, coupled with the much lower acquisition cost, I still go with Booth.


Now, in addition to Booth, he would have been decent pick-up. But it probably costs this team a Higgins/Raymond in the process. Where as now, you could maintain a roster with both even after a cap drop.
Sure Gillis may not have felt like Vermette was worth a top-60 pick...but that doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake. I would've made the deal without blinking, and suggested it constantly at the time.

I'd trade Mallet, a 5th and whatever scrap AHL goaltender (Climie?) or similar substitute spare part for Vermette every single day of the week and i'd be thrilled each time i did it.

And by fitting better than Booth at LW i mean just that...Vermette is a natural C and that's where i see him fitting best on this team. But he would have added value as a LW where he also plays much more naturally than most Centers do. It even goes back to his days in Ottawa's cup run when they went to the finals with him playing mostly as a 2nd line LW to Fisher. And imo, Fisher has a lot of similarities to Kesler. They're both gritty two-way shooting centers...I think Vermette would fit well with Kesler as well. And Vermette's best year came playing center to a shooter in Nash as well. He's not a pure 'playmaker' passing type player, but he's much closer to than Booth, and he doesn't give up that much in the 'drive the net' department when he's playing wing, and is motivated.

It would've given this team a lot of very interest options...

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