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Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

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02-14-2013, 07:39 PM
  #301
NYRangers723
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Originally Posted by GhostOfSeanAvery View Post
I love the reasoning being that Kreider "didn't do a lot." He might be able to do more if he played more than 6 minutes a night.
I agree. Imagine if he played with nash he would have 6 or 7 goals

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02-14-2013, 07:50 PM
  #302
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SSM has been in love with Kreider since the second he got drafted.

It sure is a difficult way to judge someone's play objectively at the NHL level.

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02-14-2013, 07:53 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
SSM has been in love with Kreider since the second he got drafted.

It sure is a difficult way to judge someone's play objectively.
so is hate. Between you and kershaw im not sure which is the captain in that territory lol

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02-14-2013, 07:55 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
so is hate. Between you and kershaw im not sure which is the captain in that territory lol
Players needs to prove themselves at this level, period.

Theres this prevailing thinking of the player Kreider COULD BE, thats not currently rooted in reality. Theres not one iota of hate about it.

I dont hate Kreider, Torts doesnt hate Kreider - he just needs to play better.

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02-14-2013, 07:58 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Players needs to prove themselves at this level, period.

Theres this prevailing thinking of the player Kreider COULD BE, thats not currently rooted in reality. Theres not one iota of hate about it.

I dont hate Kreider, Torts doesnt hate Kreider - he just needs to play better.
Why do you keep mentioning reality. We all know the reality dude lol. I never said Kreider was great this year. In fact i have said many many times that he needs to step it up. However i feel that he will get better by playing. Its not liek he has been terrible he hasnt but you have to keep playing him and testing him in bigger situations to see how he reacts. The playoffs was a perfect example and he did real well

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02-14-2013, 08:00 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Why do you keep mentioning reality. We all know the reality dude lol. I never said Kreider was great this year. In fact i have said many many times that he needs to step it up. However i feel that he will get better by playing. Its not liek he has been terrible he hasnt but you have to keep playing him and testing him in bigger situations to see how he reacts. The playoffs was a perfect example and he did real well
If you were accepting reality, you guys wouldnt be making excuses about how Kreider wasnt being handled right when he was playing.

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02-14-2013, 08:02 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you were accepting reality, you guys wouldnt be making excuses about how Kreider wasnt being handled right when he was playing.

Excuses? Im not making excuses. In fact i said in ENGLISH that he has to step it up didnt I?

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02-14-2013, 08:07 PM
  #308
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I like the player, that means I'm not objective?

He wasn't scratched because he was bad defensively. He was scratched because Boyle needed to play and Kreider didn't "do enough". He's bring over coached.

He's concerned with assignments. That's why he looks "tentative". Has anyone here tried to impress by doing something, but had to constantly worry they missed their assignment? It doesn't exactly give you the confidence to just go for it. Complicated systems are not easy for rookies to learn.

Kreider was far more effective in the playoffs because the coaching staff took a "hands off" approach and allowed him to just play.

In the offensive zone, he's even looking around making sure he's got his assignment down instead of attacking the net. Like he should be doing. Why?.Because if he loses his assignment and the opposition transitions up the ice, Kreider gets benched.

How do you build confidence like that? Its incredibly difficult. I went through it as a young defenseman in a ccomplicated system. With complex set plays. Rather then just playing. Rushing the puck like I was able to do, I was constantly being force fed systems and assignments and benched if I missed one. I can relate to this situation.

Give the kid a situation he can play his game and succeed in. He needs a center that can get him the puck. Like a broken record.

He won't ever be selke material. Stop it. What he can be however is a 30 goal scorer. Allow him to develop that way. He isn't lazy. No need to worry about that. He's not a prima. He's not high maintenance.

Feed him the puck.

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02-14-2013, 08:09 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I like the player, that means I'm not objective?

He wasn't scratched because he was bad defensively. He was scratched because Boyle needed to play and Kreider didn't "do enough". He's bring over coached.

He's concerned with assignments. That's why he looks "tentative". Has anyone here tried to impress by doing something, but had to constantly worry they missed their assignment? It doesn't exactly give you the confidence to just go for it. Complicated systems are not easy for rookies to learn.

Kreider was far more effective in the playoffs because the coaching staff took a "hands off" approach and allowed him to just play.

In the offensive zone, he's even looking around making sure he's got his assignment down instead of attacking the net. Like he should be doing. Why?.Because if he loses his assignment and the opposition transitions up the ice, Kreider gets benched.

How do you build confidence like that? Its incredibly difficult. I went through it as a young defenseman in a ccomplicated system. With complex set plays. Rather then just playing. Rushing the puck like I was able to do, I was constantly being force fed systems and assignments and benched if I missed one. I can relate to this situation.

Give the kid a situation he can play his game and succeed in. He needs a center that can get him the puck. Like a broken record.

He won't ever be selke material. Stop it. What he can be however is a 30 goal scorer. Allow him to develop that way. He isn't lazy. No need to worry about that. He's not a prima. He's not high maintenance.

Feed him the puck.
Dont bother dude he is a smartass who jumps to conclusions.

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02-14-2013, 09:11 PM
  #310
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"Give a 'perennial' 40 goal scorer slack"?

No.

When a player is paid like a leader he needs to be a leader. When a player is relied on to be your best player, he better be your best player.

Slack?

If resting on laurels is your bag, I can reference you to the 98-2004 vacation resort Rangers.

Plain and simple, Gaborik's play is inexcusable. He has one point in seven games. He doesn't skate. Tortorella agrees.

http://snyrangersblog.com/2012-13-pl...-carl-hagelin/

Kreider's defense has been bad? I swear to God some have either never played before or never coached before. Kreider, a rookie 21 year old has not been "bad" defensively. He's been OK. He's learning. He's starting to read plays and cover missed assignments by other players. He's been good in the neutral zone. He hasn't hurt the team at all. Certainly not enough to warrant a scratch. Certainly not enough to warrant not getting a chance to have a player next to him that can get him the puck when he's wide ****ing open in the high slot or coming down the wing on the transition.

The expectation level for Gaborik shouldn't be high? But for a 21 year old rookie they should be astronomical?

Kreider should be playing with a center that can get him the puck. Plain and simple. Let him play and learn. There will be growing pains.

Can't punish him by taking him out of the lineup or benching him EVERY mistake he makes. Hagelin took stupid penalty after stupid penalty and was awarded time with Nash and he took off.

Gaborik scores tonight against the Islanders. Second point in 8 games.

Double standards everywhere.

****ing blow a 2 goal lead against this bottom feeding team. So glad a promising young scoring winger was scratched. Totally worth it.

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02-14-2013, 09:20 PM
  #311
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The way Kreider and Miller are being thrown to the wolves right now is bringing back some bad memories.

They have to work through it no doubt. I get that the NYR in win-now in a short season, but I can't see how this helps their confidence or "learning".

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02-14-2013, 09:26 PM
  #312
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Welp, I think it's safe to say that Kreids will be playing next game, no?

The only question is who sits. Boyle was actually one of the team's better forwards in all 3 periods IMO, so it ain't him.

Maybe Richards...? (I'm only half kidding.)

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02-14-2013, 09:28 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Welp, I think it's safe to say that Kreids will be playing next game, no?

The only question is who sits. Boyle was actually one of the team's better forwards in all 3 periods IMO, so it ain't him.

Maybe Richards...? (I'm only half kidding.)
Im not a Boyle fan but i give the dude credit he played very good. Miller hasnt impressed me. he has gotten ALOT of leeway so i think its time to send him down and let him grow more.

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02-14-2013, 09:38 PM
  #314
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If they opt to send them back to Hartford, so be it. At least they'll play.

Tortorella will shorten the bench no matter who he has in the lineup. Its incredibly frustrating. In the NHL in 2013 you need FOUR lines.

Either play them or send them back.

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02-14-2013, 09:43 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Welp, I think it's safe to say that Kreids will be playing next game, no?

The only question is who sits. Boyle was actually one of the team's better forwards in all 3 periods IMO, so it ain't him.

Maybe Richards...? (I'm only half kidding.)
I'd be shocked if Miller is still here on Sunday.

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02-14-2013, 09:46 PM
  #316
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I'd be shocked if Miller is still here on Sunday.
He should be sent down IMO. He played badly last game and he got another chance tonight. He is only 19 let him develop his game more. As for Kreider all i ask is for Torts to give the kid at least a couple of legit chances like he did in the playoffs. if he fails fine then maybe he should be benched but if
he plays well then we have another scoring threat. But you gotta give him a chance

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02-14-2013, 10:51 PM
  #317
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Miller was completely non-existent tonight. Wow. Guess he should go back down to Connecticut to refine his game a bit. Not ready.

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02-14-2013, 10:54 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Miller was completely non-existent tonight. Wow. Guess he should go back down to Connecticut to refine his game a bit. Not ready.
For once i agree with you. He has been non-existent the last few games. He is only 19 so no big deal he will get better. Now that Boyle is back its probbaly time for him to go down

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02-14-2013, 11:00 PM
  #319
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Miller got Kreider's spot tonight. I think Millers definitely going down.

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02-14-2013, 11:15 PM
  #320
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I said this in the GDT but i'll say it again here as it's kinda relevant

On the reason for scratching Kreider:

"I'm reading into this as giving JT his last game before they send him back down, and giving Boyle a game to re-assimilate into the lineup

But that's just me "

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02-15-2013, 07:25 AM
  #321
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The way Kreider and Miller are being thrown to the wolves right now is bringing back some bad memories.

They have to work through it no doubt. I get that the NYR in win-now in a short season, but I can't see how this helps their confidence or "learning".

This^. these kids have the talent and need to play more, not less. There will always be NHL level growing pains that can only be overcome at the NHL level, even though a lot of minutes at AHL can help. But that is help, not overcome; for that you need pro club minutes.

These are two cornerstones of our future who have demonstrated talent which must be shaped in an ability to excel at NHL. They need to play regularly HERE. The faster they have that full opportunity, the faster they can get past this initial stage pretty much all players experience which they hope to get past by end of their tenure as rookies/sophomores.

They will keep Kreider and still screw around with what shifts, where, etc. to use him, which we should not be surprised with the way Torts juggles lines.

Miller has already mastered the AHL. The only benefit there is more minutes via the first line. But as explained above, he should be here. The chains were relatively off a couple of games, and he excelled. They are now trying to reign him in, and this is the result.

If Slats can make the right deal, a roster spot might be available, and Miller will return sooner than later. If not, they will extend that extra year of ELC eligible status.

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02-15-2013, 07:46 AM
  #322
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gonna bet Miller is scratched next game with Kreider in

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02-15-2013, 07:48 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Miller was completely non-existent tonight. Wow. Guess he should go back down to Connecticut to refine his game a bit. Not ready.
to the kids defense if we went with this theory then players would be demoted after a few blah games, kid did have 2 good games before 2 whatever games

I do agree he may site one though or go down for a bit more. Reality is he is going over 5 games this yr cause the team will likely need him too given the depth in the bottom 6

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02-15-2013, 08:50 AM
  #324
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Miller was completely non-existent tonight. Wow. Guess he should go back down to Connecticut to refine his game a bit. Not ready.
Do you think Travis Hamonic believes that? Boyle played a good game for himself. But when you play on a line with Boyle it's tough sledding offensively. So, if you are questioning JT's offensive game based on last night that isn't fair. I saw him win several board battles, rescue pucks in the D zone and create breakouts and play a patient game in general. He wasn't dynamic but I'm guessing Torts is in his head like he was in Kreider's head and he's starting to play a little more tentative than I would like.

So, if Torts is not going to let him or Kreider "play" they should send them both down, recall Haley and go from there. I didn't like our lack of toughness last night outside of Ash standing up to Boulton. So, Haley (and his pesty ways) would be refreshing. We have too many choir boys right now.

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02-15-2013, 08:52 AM
  #325
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I would actually be in favor of seeing Mashinter at some point.

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