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Old
02-14-2013, 08:17 PM
  #576
Tatanik
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Why does population mean so much, when MODO has been so successful in Sweden, when the town it is attached to (Örnsköldsvik), has less than 30,000 inhabitants.

If there is a market for it, hockey will thrive, as it is in Khabarovsk.

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02-14-2013, 08:19 PM
  #577
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In the same interview, Filc also said quite a few not-so-nice things about the KHL, Lev Poprad and Lev Prague.

By the way, in other news from 2 days ago, the Slovak state prosecution launched formal proceedings against former Lev Poprad owners, due to debts from last season that still aren't paid today. No matter what you want to say (and don't even mention that silly excuse, "Lev Prague is a completely different club!"), something like this could never happen in the NHL. If a franchise can't meet its financial obligations, it would be kicked out of the NHL. They couldn't just be resold, change their name slightly, relocate and pretend as if everything was fine.

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02-14-2013, 08:31 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
In the same interview, Filc also said quite a few not-so-nice things about the KHL, Lev Poprad and Lev Prague.

By the way, in other news from 2 days ago, the Slovak state prosecution launched formal proceedings against former Lev Poprad owners, due to debts from last season that still aren't paid today. No matter what you want to say (and don't even mention that silly excuse, "Lev Prague is a completely different club!"), something like this could never happen in the NHL. If a franchise can't meet its financial obligations, it would be kicked out of the NHL. They couldn't just be resold, change their name slightly, relocate and pretend as if everything was fine.
seems you have no idea what and why happened in Lev Poprad.... media does not say everything, there is a "nice" backround which I dont want to reveal.

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02-14-2013, 08:43 PM
  #579
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seems you have no idea what and why happened in Lev Poprad.... media does not say everything, there is a "nice" backround which I dont want to reveal.
Yes, I know, Vorky. As always, you have all the behind-the-scenes information that must remain top-secret and that confirms the KHL's blameless character and 100% clean moral profile, while poor Filc just doesn't know what he's talking about. He just blindly believes whatever he read in a tabloid newspaper, the poor guy.

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02-14-2013, 09:25 PM
  #580
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Yes, I know, Vorky. As always, you have all the behind-the-scenes information that must remain top-secret and that confirms the KHL's blameless character and 100% clean moral profile, while poor Filc just doesn't know what he's talking about. He just blindly believes whatever he read in a tabloid newspaper, the poor guy.
Filc knows what he is talking about. Ask him why his attitude to Lev Prague is so negative. Believe me, not everything was said about Lev Poprad in media.

How is it possible to spend 10 millions euro within 4 months? Who created budget before season? Who was responsible?

I dont believe single word of Mr. Máteffy. You know who he is. The same I dont believe single word of Dennik Sport about this topic. You know why.

I dont believe the story of CKD. People/media blame CKD for Poprad´s failure. Are you sure that CKD had plan to ruin Lev Poprad when they indirectly bought club? There are a debts around 2 millions euro? It would not be a problem for CKD/KHL to pay it. Why to support corruption? Main part of debts is for reconstruction of arena. Right? You know how it works in Slovakia. If a company wants to build something, it must bribe a few people = the construction is overpaid. Who is resposible? Read And be calm, I dont believe everything what is written in the article.

I followed closely this case last year. I was only one who claimed that there was no problem for Lev Praha to join KHL. All media claimed that Lev Praha can not join due to debts. Today you know who was right.

The whole story is typicall for Slovakia. Personal animosity of people behind scenes are presented in media as problem of lets say Lev Poprad. True story as Barney Stinson says.

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02-15-2013, 08:26 AM
  #581
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Norwegian team Stavanger Oilers will join the KHL? The club owner and the club coach wants to, the national team players and coach supports the idea.

Read below.


www.sports.ru - Mats Zuccarello Aasen, "Norwegian club in the KHL - it's real"
http://www.sports.ru/hockey/146716001.html


http://www.aftonbladet.se - Norway dreams of a team in KHL
http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportblade...cle16216085.ab


www.hockeysverige.se - Norwegian team towards KHL-play?
http://www.hockeysverige.se/article/...g-mot-khl-spel

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Old
02-15-2013, 08:29 AM
  #582
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Great news! That would be a real breakthrough for the KHL into Western Europe. Once a Norwegian team joins the KHL, a Swedish team following at some later point in time, would be the next logical step.

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02-15-2013, 09:00 AM
  #583
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Great news! That would be a real breakthrough for the KHL into Western Europe. Once a Norwegian team joins the KHL, a Swedish team following at some later point in time, would be the next logical step.
I have no idea if it is possible, I support it.

Just imagine, now guys from Norway play for swedish clubs because of better league. What would happen if Stavanger joined KHL? Many of them would sign at home. Of course, we have to consider long-term deals with swedish clubs. Still, it would hit Elitserien.. therefore logical step as you wrote

Are there any real steps? Like Gdansk did...

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02-15-2013, 10:41 AM
  #584
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tell us what should KHL do? Yes, local government or russian companies support clubs and will do that. But what to do?

1.to pay less money to players? RESULT: exodus of top players, no foreigners. No chance to keep Kuznetsov, Tarasenko until their 22

2. to share revenue from broadcasting rights? Will happen soon, dont worry.

Btw, how do you want to earn/increase money from tv deals if you dont have top players? Is anybody outside Sweden interested in Elitserien? Not.

3.Clubs/regions have been investing into arenas, building new one. Huge lost of money. You know, good tv product needs modern arenas, so you have to invest.

4.Imagine there is not KHL TV. How do you want to sell the product? KHL have spent a lot of money to develop KHL TV. Waste of money?

Tell us, what should KHL do? I have no idea. As I know KHL has been in phase 1 - investing and developing the product. Therefore losing money. Nobody knows what will be after 20 years, but we know for sure this (as example): Torpedo will have new arena for 15 000, there is a chance to triple revenues from ticketing (now they have arena for 5 600). Do you think that this extra money will not help Torpedo?

And now imagine better international calendar (WHC in february, no EHT). That means cca 70 games in regular season instead of 52 (btw, KHL had 56 games in RS in past, why not now?). So more home games, more money.

If I remember Slovan´s average ticket (after auction saga) was around 20 euro. Tickets for QF (pack of 2 or 3 home games) is € 49 and more (dont count fanclub - € 30). It is only for holders of season tickets, the rest must buy singel ticket at auction.

now math..lets say single ticket in RS costs 20 euro, in play-off 30 euro.

20x26 (home games in regular season)x10 055 (sold out)=5 228 600
30x2 (home games in play-off)x10 055 (sold out)=603 300

Right? Correct me if wrong. So it is almost 6 mil euro from ticketing for Slovan this season (+/-). Budget was declared at 10 mil. euro. If Slovan makes 2nd round of PO, ticketing will be 6,5-7 mil euro. Not so bad. Plus prize money for making 2nd round. Imagine money from KHL for tv rights (1 mil euro?? more? less?). Merchendising (no idea)?

I hope my math is right, it is too late here.
Your reference to new arenas reminded me of another source of revenue to mitigate the cost of financial losses during the season. When a KHL owner invests in building a new arena, or remodeling and modernizing an existing one, they usually retain all or at least a percentage of the ownership of the building (the same around the World). So that means that revenues derived from things like rock concerts or other exhibitions that are distinct from hockey operations flow to the owner. When you think about it, there are other ways that KHL owners can solidify their stance in addition to ticket and merchandizing revenues.

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02-15-2013, 10:45 AM
  #585
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I have no idea if it is possible, I support it.

Just imagine, now guys from Norway play for swedish clubs because of better league. What would happen if Stavanger joined KHL? Many of them would sign at home. Of course, we have to consider long-term deals with swedish clubs. Still, it would hit Elitserien.. therefore logical step as you wrote

Are there any real steps? Like Gdansk did...
The Norwegian team gave the Russians their toughest opposition in the 2012 WC. I totally agree that it would be a big impetus to Sweden entering a team in the league, which in turn would no doubt prompt entry of a Finnish team right behind.

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02-15-2013, 11:08 AM
  #586
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Aftonbladet mentions economy as the biggest hurdle for the team. E.g. Stavanger's arena holds only 2500.

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02-15-2013, 11:08 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Your reference to new arenas reminded me of another source of revenue to mitigate the cost of financial losses during the season. When a KHL owner invests in building a new arena, or remodeling and modernizing an existing one, they usually retain all or at least a percentage of the ownership of the building (the same around the World). So that means that revenues derived from things like rock concerts or other exhibitions that are distinct from hockey operations flow to the owner. When you think about it, there are other ways that KHL owners can solidify their stance in addition to ticket and merchandizing revenues.
I am not so sure about it. How does it work in Russia? As I know, Arena Omsk is owned or co-owned now by Avangard Omsk (Abramovich was previous owner or co-owner. I am not sure). All new arenas under construction are funded by local government, maybe clubs will have some share here. I am sure, clubs wont have 100%. Of course, change can come like in case of Arena Omsk. Slovan Bratislava is not owner of Slovnaft Arena as well. Another situation can be in Donetsk, club will buy its own arena.

IMO KHL leadership wants clubs to be owners of arenas. Why? Because of schedulling. Now clubs have problem because hockey is not no.1 priority in all arenas. Listen to Shalaev videa about schedulling. KHL has XY days to play hockey (the rest are NT breaks) and some clubs can not play home games during ALL of this XY days because of concerts/exhibitions. As I remember leader is SKA with above 20 days when they can not play at home during this regular season. Imagine, we have 6 moths of regulars season (sept-feb), approximatelly 20 days are free days (NT breaks), almost one free week around Silvester. So, regular season can be played during 5 months and SKA is not able to play home matches above 20 days of those 5 months. Yeap, I would not want to be a person who makes KHL´s calendar.

Quote:
The Norwegian team gave the Russians their toughest opposition in the 2012 WC. I totally agree that it would be a big impetus to Sweden entering a team in the league, which in turn would no doubt prompt entry of a Finnish team right behind.
domino effect

btw, I sent PM

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02-15-2013, 12:27 PM
  #588
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The Norwegian team gave the Russians their toughest opposition in the 2012 WC. I totally agree that it would be a big impetus to Sweden entering a team in the league, which in turn would no doubt prompt entry of a Finnish team right behind.
That had more to do with Russian team's attitude. I also think Swedes could not care less what Norwegians do with their hockey clubs. There's no domestic money nor fan interest in Sweden nor Finland to start a KHL club. Clubs are also a bit reluctant to hand over the control of their clubs to Russian state sponsored companies (which is why Espoo Blues had no interest in KHL ultimately).


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02-15-2013, 08:31 PM
  #589
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That had more to do with Russian team's attitude. I also think Swedes could not care less what Norwegians do with their hockey clubs. There's no domestic money nor fan interest in Sweden nor Finland to start a KHL club. Clubs are also a bit reluctant to hand over the control of their clubs to Russian state sponsored companies (which is why Espoo Blues had no interest in KHL ultimately).
I don't think so. The Swedes are always very alarmed when KHL teams sign all their top players. This trend would only continue with the Stavanger Oilers playing in KHL. Not only Norwegians would play in this team but also a lot of other top talent that is lost for Elitserien then. Same would be the case with Gdansk who for sure would sign lots of foreigners.

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02-16-2013, 05:48 AM
  #590
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so, I don't get, does anyone here think that the players currently playing for Dinamo Riga would stay in a so-called Latvian league? like before, when they played all over Europe or the players who are not good enough for DR now playing in every possible European dweller leagues?

KHL has a tone of issues, but it surely is easy to blaim someone for giving your country a chance to see a lot of decent teams and players.
No, no, no- nobody is thinking that Dinamo Riga players would stay in Latvian league. That's crazy. The only problem with Dinamo Riga for some people probably is that it also attracts a lot of local money (which there isn't that much anyway). About a third from RD budget comes from local sponsors, that means about 5 million USD and in future this will only increase. Some people believe that it would be better that this money would be freed up and invested in regional hockey clubs to make maybe not a very strong league but like a Danish one who would then export the talents to North American development system (like Bjorkstrand at the moment) or big leagues in the region- Elitserien, SM Liiga, KHL (through VHL)...

Of course it's bullsh** as if one day there was no Dinamo, these 5 million dollars magically would not just transfer to local small hockey clubs. Therefore it's not some kind of money that Dinamo Rīga has stolen from hockey environment, it's the money that the club has attracted and in big part because it's a big club and can offer benefits for this sponsorship that small Latvian league teams would never offer....

The underlying issue is not that people want Dinamo Riga players to play in the local league. Better level local league, as they say, is needed not to miss all the potential talents Latvia might have, because at the moment there are only two hockey pyramids in Latvia - Dinamo Rīga system (SK Rīga teams -> Juniors in MHL B and current Latvian league -> HK Rīga -> (Liepājas Metalurgs) -> Dinamo Rīga) and Liepājas Metalugs (LM youth teams -> LM in MHL B and Latvian league-> LM in BOL -> (Dinamo Rīga). People believe that it's not enough and youngsters from other hockey schools never have opportunity to develop as they might even lack a team in Latvian league. Of course Latvian league and all the (few) talents we have are scouted well by Dinamo and Liepājas Metalurgs, so I do not see a problem there but some believe that Latvia has so many hockey talents that are missed every day that we'd pobably be a medal contender if they all had a chance to develop at normal level....

So the issue is not primarily with Dinamo Rīga, only with money it attracts from local sponsors as some people think it would be more wisely spent on youth and regional hockey development but, of course, there's no guarantee that if Dinamo did not exist even 10% of this money would go there....

I personally believe that a stronger Latvian league (6-7 teams of Liepāja Metalurgs current level) and Dinamo Rīga system do not exclude each other and in future, better economic climate, it would be an ideal situation in Latvian hockey- in the even of collapse of Dinamo Rīga we could at least ''retreat'' to the local league, as some kind of structure for youth development, but some people think that Dinamo Riga and local league exclude each other and there will never be one if another is existing.

Partially i understand the fears of people like Namejs because if Dinamo Rīga collapses, then with it all the youth hockey structure in Riga collapses. Ok maybe MHL club can survive, but without Dinamo there's no pyramid top in Riga and Liepāja alone cannot take on all the talent that's in Latvia. But that's the current situation and hopefully with economy improving, the situation will improve too.

In short, this is not an issue concerning already established players. Nobody would want to see them in Latvian league. This is an issue regarding prospects and mostly those prospects that are outside of Dinamo or Liepāja system, in regions, that people feel in current situation cannot deveop as there are only few really good development opportunities (either you get into HK Rīga or Liepājas Metalurgs MHL B team, otherwise you do not have a room to grow in Latvia as a youngster). Also we have a ton of prospects that play abroad that might indicate this. Consider HK Riga in MHL if it had Lipsbergs, Jevpalovs, Rosinskis and Kulda (1994) from CHL leagues, Bļugers (1994) from NCAA, Girgensons (well, he'd probably be already in Dinamo or Liepāja) 1994 and Pelšs (1992) in AHL, Kļaviņš in Elitserien (1993), Andersons in Switzerland juniors/NLA (1993), Koļesņikovs is in Norvegian league (1992), Zuševics in EBEL (1994) etc. You Russians have a problem with youngsters leaving to CHL to develop when 1 or 2 top talents from an MHL team of some town leave. We have all our top prospects of the age from Riga abroad..... except Bukarts. I've written a lot already but under all these issues it's the same old ''CHL (or in this case maybe not CHL, but any foreign league a player must go to for development) ruins talents'' discussion you have regarding Russian talents. People believe that if better development opportunities (and more of them) would exist in Latvia, less talents would leave.... People leave HK Riga too but at least for CHL leagues or other MHL clubs and equivalent, but so many promising talents go to develop in Norway or Austria.... Not because they will learn better hockey there but just because they have better conditions and bigger certainty about their development there.


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02-16-2013, 07:55 AM
  #591
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I don't think so. The Swedes are always very alarmed when KHL teams sign all their top players. This trend would only continue with the Stavanger Oilers playing in KHL. Not only Norwegians would play in this team but also a lot of other top talent that is lost for Elitserien then. Same would be the case with Gdansk who for sure would sign lots of foreigners.
That hasn't been exactly happening lately. The players prefer to stay at home. There's more Finns in KHL than Swedes.

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02-16-2013, 11:09 AM
  #592
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Aftonbladet mentions economy as the biggest hurdle for the team. E.g. Stavanger's arena holds only 2500.

Economy will be the biggest hurdle, but Stavanger is probably the only city in Norway that could pull this off. Sponsoring a KHL team could be of intrest for some of the Oil comanies that operate out of Stavanger. For example Statoil that are doing buisness in Russia and has its headquarters in Stavanger.

And DNB Arena holds 4750 people.

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02-16-2013, 11:12 AM
  #593
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That hasn't been exactly happening lately. The players prefer to stay at home. There's more Finns in KHL than Swedes.
i think that's beause more swedes got the NA route too. I'd like CSKA to go for Soderberg, but he seems not willing to leave SWE even for NHL..

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02-16-2013, 11:13 AM
  #594
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And DNB Arena holds 4750 people.
Does the city have another bigger arean? Any plan to build? 4750 woudl be ok for start, like Donbass/Minsk

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02-16-2013, 12:31 PM
  #595
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I am not so sure about it. How does it work in Russia? As I know, Arena Omsk is owned or co-owned now by Avangard Omsk (Abramovich was previous owner or co-owner. I am not sure). All new arenas under construction are funded by local government, maybe clubs will have some share here. I am sure, clubs wont have 100%. Of course, change can come like in case of Arena Omsk. Slovan Bratislava is not owner of Slovnaft Arena as well. Another situation can be in Donetsk, club will buy its own arena.

IMO KHL leadership wants clubs to be owners of arenas. Why? Because of schedulling. Now clubs have problem because hockey is not no.1 priority in all arenas. Listen to Shalaev videa about schedulling. KHL has XY days to play hockey (the rest are NT breaks) and some clubs can not play home games during ALL of this XY days because of concerts/exhibitions. As I remember leader is SKA with above 20 days when they can not play at home during this regular season. Imagine, we have 6 moths of regulars season (sept-feb), approximatelly 20 days are free days (NT breaks), almost one free week around Silvester. So, regular season can be played during 5 months and SKA is not able to play home matches above 20 days of those 5 months. Yeap, I would not want to be a person who makes KHL´s calendar.


domino effect

btw, I sent PM
I don't know any specific arrangements that exist between KHL owners and local or regional governments. Even if they didn't provide funds to build or renovate their arenas, KHL owners have a lot of leverage as the main tenants of the buildings. Often, revenues and ownership rights for the venues are negotiated at the time the building is leased to the team. Since many local and regional governments don't have, or don't want to spend the resources to pay full cost of building and/or modernizing the buildings, they are willing to negotiate with owners to have a share of the proceeds from other events, such as rock concerts and so on. But I don't have any specific details on actual arrangements.

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02-16-2013, 12:33 PM
  #596
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Does the city have another bigger arean? Any plan to build? 4750 woudl be ok for start, like Donbass/Minsk
DNB Arena opened in October 2012 and is the biggest in Stavanger.

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02-16-2013, 12:34 PM
  #597
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I dont know as well, would be great if it worked like you said

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thx

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02-16-2013, 12:49 PM
  #598
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Btw what about population of Stavanger?

Here is a list of NHL (Wild does not play at Minneapolis) and KHL

copyright to dene/webhokej24.sk/blog (according to law, I have to add this info if I want to use pic)

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02-16-2013, 12:59 PM
  #599
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Btw what about population of Stavanger?
The Stavanger region has about 350 000 people.

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02-16-2013, 01:09 PM
  #600
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The Stavanger region has about 350 000 people.
that would be the smallest city (dont count Chekhov, Khanty-Mansiysk). On the other hand, I can imagine that there are similar/bigger cities next to Stavanger. Am I right? Plus roads/railways are great, I would say. You know, if people from other cities would like to watch KHL.

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