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Old
02-15-2013, 07:42 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Madevilz View Post
Id rather keep Eller than DD.
Once Galchy gets more comfortable in the NHL, Top 2 C are already filled with Plekanec. DD doesn't fit on the 3rd line, but Eller sure could.
DD can fit any line you put him in. Once Galchenyuk becomes Top-6 experience, Pleky can still be a very reliable defensive C for years to come with DD doing his thing.

I don't understand why people keep bashing on him. You say he isn't Top-6 material unless he has sheltered minute/top wingers. And THEN you say he doesn't fit on a 3rd line.

Gee. If I didn't knew any better, I'd suspect most of you think he should just NOT PLAY in the NHL. Hang his skates and do something else with his life.

DD has played great for us; and came out stronger of every slump he went through. This slump is no different; he's showing signs of trying harder than ever against much stronger opposition than last year.

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02-15-2013, 07:45 AM
  #202
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Wouldn't mind seeing him moved, he as like 50 points in 175-180 games.
Not good numbers for the first or second line and he's to soft for the 3th
or fourth line. Rather he'd be replaced with more toughness . Look at
the halak trade as a missed opportunity, halak's stock was very high at the
time.

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Old
02-15-2013, 07:48 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by e46330ivs View Post
I think pretty much everyone agrees that Plekanec is probably one of the best second line centre in the league, he's 1a/1b on our team though, so stop laughing at yourself.
One of the best.......I certainly wouldn't go that far. He is a legitimate 2nd line center but there are quite a few other ones that I would prefer......especially at playoff time.

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02-15-2013, 07:51 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
People complain about Plekanec in the playoffs? Beggars can't be choosers.The Habs have to get there first and with their leaky D and tendency to take penalties they need Plekanec night in, night out, to qualify. As for his offensive playoff performance, doesn't that also reflect what his line mates contribute? Is it fair to expect him to be Mario or Sidney or Evgeny?

As for Eller, please remind me of the great forwards he regularly plays with.
Instead of making excuses for Eller, why not actually look at the real reasons that he doesn't get extended looks in the top six. He is on his 3rd coach in Montreal who doesn't seem to have confidence in him in that role.

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02-15-2013, 07:56 AM
  #205
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It is almost hilarious how so many have annointed RoR as potential saviour of the franchise. If anyone's value has been blown out of proportion it is his. And while everyone is running around in circles drooling about him they forget exactly where he would fit into the lineup unless a bunch of other moves are made. At this point Eller knows his role and is a team player. O'Reilly, with the stance he has taken, has shown who he puts first. I wonder how that would fit with Therrien's philosophy.

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02-15-2013, 07:59 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
It is almost hilarious how so many have annointed RoR as potential saviour of the franchise. If anyone's value has been blown out of proportion it is his. And while everyone is running around in circles drooling about him they forget exactly where he would fit into the lineup unless a bunch of other moves are made. At this point Eller knows his role and is a team player. O'Reilly, with the stance he has taken, has shown who he puts first. I wonder how that would fit with Therrien's philosophy.
I am sure we could get something really juicy for Eller + Kaberle. Better than a side-move like O'Reilly.

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02-15-2013, 08:01 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
why?
Why from a Montreal POV?

I see Brassard as more skilled and more likely to develop into a productive top 2 line player than Eller.

Right now i'm far from convinced that DD has a longterm future with the Habs. I'm not ready to give Galchenyuk top 2 line responsibilities and i dont think Eller has what it takes to play on the top 2 lines.

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02-15-2013, 08:01 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
It is almost hilarious how so many have annointed RoR as potential saviour of the franchise. If anyone's value has been blown out of proportion it is his. And while everyone is running around in circles drooling about him they forget exactly where he would fit into the lineup unless a bunch of other moves are made. At this point Eller knows his role and is a team player. O'Reilly, with the stance he has taken, has shown who he puts first. I wonder how that would fit with Therrien's philosophy.
Have you ever seen O'Reiily play???

He is great at both ends of the ice and plays a gritty game to boot. He is the closest thing to a sober Mike Richards that you will find. Colby Armstrong knows his role as well, should we keep Armstrong over O'Reilly as well?

Like I said previously, it is a moot point as MB won't trade for a player with the same demands that he just denied from Subban.

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02-15-2013, 08:03 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Why from a Montreal POV?

I see Brassard as more skilled and more likely to develop into a productive top 2 line player than Eller.

Right now i'm far from convinced that DD has a longterm future with the Habs. I'm not ready to give Galchenyuk top 2 line responsibilities and i dont think Eller has what it takes to play on the top 2 lines.
You sir, are correct on every point that you just made imo.

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02-15-2013, 08:04 AM
  #210
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You gotta give something to get something.

If Eller is on the block, I hope there is a very specific role, player and salary that they are trying to fill. If it is just a flushing of Eller for the sake of flushing him, then it is a Houle-style move.

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Old
02-15-2013, 08:08 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
The problem with Plekanec in the playoffs is not so much that he disappears as it is that he doesn't raise his level of play and doesn't get involved physically.

He is a professional who brings a solid consistent effort throughout the regular season but everything is ramped up in the playoffs and he doesn't rise to meet that new level of intensity. Markov also suffers from the same problem as neither player is very emotional and they just keep chugging along at their regular pace.

There is a reason that players like Bolland abd J.Staal still thrive offensively in the playoffs while playing against the opponents top lines and that is intensity and a balls to the wall attitude. This just isn't in Plekanec's game as he is very robotic in nature and doesn't respond either negatively or positively to his surrounding environment.
Bolland and Staal don't have to be top guys during the regular season so they have more in the tank to "step up" at playoff time.

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02-15-2013, 08:10 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
DD can fit any line you put him in. Once Galchenyuk becomes Top-6 experience, Pleky can still be a very reliable defensive C for years to come with DD doing his thing.

I don't understand why people keep bashing on him. You say he isn't Top-6 material unless he has sheltered minute/top wingers. And THEN you say he doesn't fit on a 3rd line.

Gee. If I didn't knew any better, I'd suspect most of you think he should just NOT PLAY in the NHL. Hang his skates and do something else with his life.

DD has played great for us; and came out stronger of every slump he went through. This slump is no different; he's showing signs of trying harder than ever against much stronger opposition than last year.
I think sometimes people are too quick to bash him because of the staunch support he gets because he's French. It's wrong. The problem is the lack of balance of our lineup with him in it.

Plekanec isn't a defensive 3rd center. He's miles ahead of DD. This is kind of what bothers people. DD doesn't deserve to be on the top two lines over Plekanec yet people suggest it because of who DD is.

It's fine putting DD on the second line but right now it's a toss up with Eller based on play this year.

Gally shouldn't be there yet. He should be the third line center.

People need to stop their unwavering support for any player. It makes no sense to support a player unequivocally because of his language. Language doesn't speak on the ice.

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Old
02-15-2013, 08:13 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Why from a Montreal POV?

I see Brassard as more skilled and more likely to develop into a productive top 2 line player than Eller.

Right now i'm far from convinced that DD has a longterm future with the Habs. I'm not ready to give Galchenyuk top 2 line responsibilities and i dont think Eller has what it takes to play on the top 2 lines.
Brassard is already 25 and is a fringe top 6 guy making 3.2 mil a year. Unless he has some epiphany and suddenly becomes a much better player, he is not a guy I'd give much for in a trade. The type of player you can get on the UFA market.

I don't agree he is more skilled and has more upside than Eller offensively PLUS Eller is bigger and better defensively...plus much better cap hit and 2 years younger.

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02-15-2013, 08:17 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Brassard is already 25 and is a fringe top 6 guy making 3.2 mil a year. Unless he has some epiphany and suddenly becomes a much better player, he is not a guy I'd give much for in a trade. The type of player you can get on the UFA market.

I don't agree he is more skilled and has more upside than Eller offensively PLUS Eller is bigger and better defensively...plus much better cap hit and 2 years younger.
Totally agree, no way am I interested in a Eller for Brassard trade.

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02-15-2013, 08:18 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
One of the best.......I certainly wouldn't go that far. He is a legitimate 2nd line center but there are quite a few other ones that I would prefer......especially at playoff time.
Count them there arent that many, which is why I said ONE of the best not the best, and I disagree about playoffs I feel he's underated come playoff time, when you take into account the role he plays.

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02-15-2013, 08:19 AM
  #216
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I do not support DD because he speaks french. I support because he hasn't shown a ceiling yet. Every year he starts struggling because he faces harder opposition, and every year he ups his game one notch higher to compete.

I never said DD should be ahead of Plek! If anything, long-term, DD should be an effective 3rd line D who helps our rookie wingers develop.

It's just that I feel selling DD right now would result in underpayment, while Eller seems to provoke interest. You sell what's hot (in the market) at the moment when you can afford it; it's good business practice.

Where DD keep pushing his game ever higher, Eller seemed to have hit walls in his development at multiple occasion. He's doing very well at the moment, and I hope he keeps proving himself time and again, possibly with higher and higher opposition, better and better wingers.

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Old
02-15-2013, 08:20 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Bolland and Staal don't have to be top guys during the regular season so they have more in the tank to "step up" at playoff time.
That is hogwash.

They all play comparable minutes and both Staal and Bolland play a far more physical game than Plekanec.

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02-15-2013, 08:27 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by e46330ivs View Post
Count them there arent that many, which is why I said ONE of the best not the best, and I disagree about playoffs I feel he's underated come playoff time, when you take into account the role he plays.
He has been an absolute non factor in the playoffs. Koivu played the exact same role as Plekanec and he still produced in the playoffs. Plekanec just simply doesn't raise his game with the rest of the league in the playoffs.


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02-15-2013, 08:32 AM
  #219
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I hope we keep Eller, and just give him more TOI with better linemates on an ongoing basis...

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02-15-2013, 08:32 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
He has been an absolure non factor in the playoffs. Koivu played the exact same role as Plekanec and he still produced in the playoffs. Plekanec just simply doesn't raise his game with the rest of the league in the playoffs.
My exact point on Plekanec... Just cant be counted on in big games.

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02-15-2013, 08:33 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
That is hogwash.

They all play comparable minutes and both Staal and Bolland play a far more physical game than Plekanec.
Hogwash is to ignore the impact of playing on a team behind the likes of Crosby/malkin or toews/Kane/hossa, vs being the #1 target of the opposition.

As much as bolland & stall may be used by their teams vs the oppositions best, the opposite isn't true.

Plekanec, for the past several years, has been the habs #1 C, on top of being the guy used vs the oppositions best, he's also been the target the the oppositions best defence most of the time.

The notion that he doesn't "elevate his game" is pure BS. One look at his consistently high level of play with the Czech squad (amazing what he can do with some talented linemates, isn't it) shows that the guy can compete well in clutch situations.

Like koi I before him, he's simply never been adequately surrounded with the habs to be that effective come playoff time.

He's not an elite guy who will create his own offence regardless of linemates & fwd depth, sure, but that's a far cry from labelling him the way you are.

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02-15-2013, 08:33 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
That is hogwash.

They all play comparable minutes and both Staal and Bolland play a far more physical game than Plekanec.
Not on this planet.

Bollard last year played 16:30, most years he is averaging 17:30.
Staal had a career high of 21:21 in 10-11 but he only played 42 games. 20:03 last year but only played 62 games. Leaves a lot more gas in the tank.

Plekanec has been over 20 minutes the last 3 years plus he has only missed 10 games the last 5+ years.

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02-15-2013, 08:36 AM
  #223
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My exact point on Plekanec... Just cant be counted on in big games.
Then why is he the #1 guy in ice time up front for any big game?

You should tell our last 5 coaches because he has been THE go to guy among forwards.

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02-15-2013, 08:39 AM
  #224
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Then why is he the #1 guy in ice time up front for any big game?

You should tell our last 5 coaches because he has been THE go to guy among forwards.
You both are right. Pleks is our best center as a whole, but he also has been disappointing in playoffs. He is better at defense than offense.

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02-15-2013, 08:39 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
He has been an absolute non factor in the playoffs. Koivu played the exact same role as Plekanec and he still produced in the playoffs. Plekanec just simply doesn't raise his game with the rest of the league in the playoffs.
Plek has a reduced offensive production but plays his best defensively responsible hockey in the playoffs. Like the guy you quoted said, he's massively under rated in that regard.

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