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What to do about the blueline?

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Old
02-15-2013, 08:23 AM
  #1
alphafox
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What to do about the blueline?

Ok, I know we just got everyone back and healthy and I know we have to have players available for call up in the event of injury, however given the play of Erixon and Goloubef, as well as Coach Richards quote "The young guys have played well enough to stay in the lineup," I believe that by the trade deadline we will have some major decisions to make. So...Who is/are the best guy(s) for us to tradeot ?

JMFJ: NOT HAPPENING. PERIOD. In all seriousness the guy leads the NHL in ice time and has been good-great most of the season. I know he gets alot of passes from people (myself included), but the fact is he has been phenomenal for us both on ice and in the room.

Wiz: Obviously the guy carrying the biggest contract, and at least a tad bit overpaid. However, he brings grit and hard work every night and that big right handed shot really makes a huge difference to our power play. Could fetch a high price on the trade market, but cap issues might mean he's more valuable to us staying on the team.

Tyutin/Nikitin: I'll handle these guys together, because quite frankly if we deal one of them we should probably deal both (Not something I'm necessarily arguing against). Tyutin is currently our points leader and Nikitin has been better than average since coming to the team last year. The problem lies in the fact that as soon as one defensive partner is on the IR the other's game suffers considerably. Add to that the obvious value in prospects and picks we could get for either one of them and do we really want to lock ourselves into a D pairing like that as we move forward?

Aucoin: Should be gone. IMO he's already been surpassed by Moore and Erixon, maybe even Goloubef. Trading him for picks will only improve our team both in the short term and the long term.

I haven't included the young guys like Moore, Erixon, Goloubef, and Savard because they are the guys pushing to make the lineup, and their stepping up is the only reason for this thread.

What do you guys think?

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:02 AM
  #2
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I'd prefer to carry them all and let on-ice play sort 'em out.

It's a likely strength. Let's take advantage in gameplay and leave the trade market to itself. Forwards are the fastest draft-to-productive-play asset anyways.

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02-15-2013, 09:08 AM
  #3
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Injuries happen. They will need them all. Depth is a good problem to have.

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:49 AM
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Here is my take on the blue line from another thread.

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I am not sure we are even that desperate to move a d-man at this point. Sure we have some options but none of the young guys have stood out enough to force the front offices hands.

Probably the first real move we'll want to consider is what to do with Aucoin. I'm not even sure Moore has played well enough to unseat either Golo or Erixon. I would like to see those three rotate around when Moore comes back.

The question really will be, are any of the top four on defense not playing the right? At least the right way from JK and JD's perspective? I would say that you have a couple of guys in that top four that probably make more mistakes than they should at their salary.

At this point I would say that Murray is going to need a hell of a camp to even be considered next season. If I was GM I would be going into next season thinking there is no rush and let him get his game back after the injury. Too many of our young players are playing at a NHL level to worry about it.

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02-15-2013, 09:50 AM
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CapnCornelius
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If you can get rid of his contract, you trade Tyutin at the deadline. JJ/Wiz are the #1 pair in the short term. Tyutin could yield a good pick/prospect if someone is willing to accept his contract.

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:52 AM
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Trading Wiz is the default stance I hear from the advocates of change. The problem with that is simple, we searched high and low for a good right handed shot, and now we have a guy that a pretty decent all around defenseman with a great right handed shot. I can't see moving him.

Murray is still 2+ years away from cracking the top 2 pairings, and Moore will see alot of ice time back filling injuries above him. I'm fine with keeping this group together (minus Aucoin) for now.

We finally have a strong unit on the back end, lets enjoy it for a few years.

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02-15-2013, 09:55 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
If you can get rid of his contract, you trade Tyutin at the deadline. JJ/Wiz are the #1 pair in the short term. Tyutin could yield a good pick/prospect if someone is willing to accept his contract.
I know Tyutin is the whipping boy of some. For quite a while. I'm not sure that he is at the top of my list, if a move is to be made. To me it is any interesting decision with Wiz and Tyutin. Wiz is no more a #2 than Tyutin is.

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02-15-2013, 10:09 AM
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Not necessarily advocating this but ask the question, what could you get for the Tyutin/Nikitin pair traded together?

Next year:

JJ Murray
Wiz Moore
Goloubef Erixon

Savard/Holden/Prout/Weber

Too thin??

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:16 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
Not necessarily advocating this but ask the question, what could you get for the Tyutin/Nikitin pair traded together?
No idea.

Quote:
Next year:

JJ Murray
Wiz Moore
Goloubef Erixon

Savard/Holden/Prout/Weber

Too thin??
Way too soon for that.

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:21 AM
  #10
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This question becomes even bigger should the CBJ draft Seth Jones....

As mentioned above, who fits the mold and who doesn't. I don't think Aucoin makes it through the season. He has some value to the CBJ but maybe more to a playoff bound team looking for a bottom pair guy for stability. If he could fetch a 3rd I'd be ecstatic. Not likely but who knows.

To me, it seems the defense is just starting to get organized (even with injuries). Our overall play appears to be better and guys seem to be growing into their roles. The transition game would probably look even better with some skill up front. The call ups have shown they can play in the NHL but they aren't going to unseat a top 4 guy at this time. I'm sure a decision will need to be made at some point with guys in the top 4. Nikitin is going to need re-signed after next year and that could create additional challenges if Wiz, JJ or Tyutin isn't moved.

I like Tyutin and think as a #3 he is settling in very well. He may garner the highest return (besides JJ who shouldn't be moved in my opinion). I think the upcoming guys have a better shot at replacing him than Wiz. I also think Wiz's contract is a hindrance and his game isn't as well rounded. He has different intagibles than Toots. Nikitin...he's just starting to scratch the surface it woudl seem. A late bloomer and not really a lot of NHL experience yet.

Certainly an intriguing situation. When has the CBJ ever had a position of relative strength like this. Certainly we can still use upgrades and may have them in the young guys. Interesting to watch going forward

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:30 AM
  #11
CapnCornelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I know Tyutin is the whipping boy of some. For quite a while. I'm not sure that he is at the top of my list, if a move is to be made. To me it is any interesting decision with Wiz and Tyutin. Wiz is no more a #2 than Tyutin is.
The difference is that Wiz and Johnson are clearly the #1 pair. Tyutin and Nikitin are not.

Call him a whipping boy if you like, but that contract is not helpful long term. He's a year older than Wiz with an extra year of term on his deal.

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:31 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
If you can get rid of his contract, you trade Tyutin at the deadline. JJ/Wiz are the #1 pair in the short term. Tyutin could yield a good pick/prospect if someone is willing to accept his contract.
It helps that he's your whipping boy.

Don't see any reason to do anything yet. There's nothing wrong with having depth. If a player pushes a vet, great, maybe he pushes the vet out of a spot or down the lineup and when that day comes, make a move. I don't think that day has come yet.

Some seem to want to handle depth like it's a wad of money burning a hole in their pocket. Save it, spent it on what you need when you need it, I say...

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
The difference is that Wiz and Johnson are clearly the #1 pair. Tyutin and Nikitin are not.
From my perspective it is equally clear they shouldn't be. I'm not sure I get your point to be honest. Can JMFJ not play with another partner? Has Wiz's play justified his salary?

Pairings can change. I would have thought the objective would be to keep the best players that fit in with the proposed team identity.

If you want to discuss the players, individually, I am up for it. But what you offered up here? I don't see how it's a talking point.

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:36 AM
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I make two assumptions with the following post:
1. We are not going to the playoffs this year and the front office knows it.
2. The front office is in the mood to deal some current assets for picks and prospects at the deadline.

On Offense-
I could see them moving Brassard and or Umberger

On Defense-
I could see them moving Tyutin. It's not that Tyutin is paid too much, it's that his deal is too long. I don't see JD wanting to keep Tyutin that long with so many prospects in the pipeline. Don't get me wrong, Tyutin would be difficult to replace in the near term, but long term, it makes sense.

Nikitin is also a likely trade candidate, especially if Tyutin is gone. JD obviously didn't think too much of him in STL or he wouldn't have traded him. I would think Nikitin would bring a decent return on the open market considering his contract.

I could also see them moving Savard in the right deal. It's clear he's been passed in the eyes of the coaching staff and front office or he wouldn't have been sent back down. I would think Savard could be a good sweatener in a deal involving Brassard or Umberger.

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:37 AM
  #15
Jaxs
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It is a nice position to be in on the back end.

Wiz, Tyutin, and Aucoin have NMC, with Wiz and Tyutin also having modified NTC. I can't find out what the modifiers are on Cap Geek in regards to Tyutin and Wiz's contracts.

If there is a home run offer near the deadline, of course one of these guys are dealt. I'm just not sure if those contracts, especially Wiz's, can be justified by another GM. Aucoin will not fetch much.

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02-15-2013, 10:41 AM
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Stretch Factor
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Does anyone know if Aucoin has a No Movement Clause? I thought I remembered reading that when he was signed.

If he doesn't, I could see them trading him for a late draft pick.

EDIT- Thanks JAXS

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02-15-2013, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch Factor View Post
Does anyone know if Aucoin has a No Movement Clause? I thought I remembered reading that when he was signed.

If he doesn't, I could see them trading him for a late draft pick.

EDIT- Thanks JAXS
Correct. I think the NMC is there more to protect him from being put on waivers and sent to the AHL.

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02-15-2013, 10:52 AM
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One of the statements I remember JD making when he first came on board was to the effect that you determine what assets you have that you can use and which ones you can turn into other assets.

I think there are going to be additional moves. As has been put forth any number of times the over riding criteria seems to be "playing the right way". The trick is determining just exactly how that is judged and applied.

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02-15-2013, 10:55 AM
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CapnCornelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
From my perspective it is equally clear they shouldn't be.
Speaking of whipping boys...

JJ and Wiz lead the team in average time on ice. This seems to never get accounted for by those who want to start pointing fingers their way. Johnson playing 28 plus minutes a game is pretty ridiculous and gives you a pretty good idea that the coaching staff doesn't share your perspective.

Having Wiz, Johnson and Tyutin all signed long term is not going to help during a multi-year rebuild. Of the three, Johnson probably has a the highest value...but he's also the least likely get traded. Tyutin has higher value than Wiz because he has a lower dollar amount on his contract and statistically is having a good year. It's a numbers game and you get more for Tyutin than Wiz.

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02-15-2013, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Speaking of whipping boys...
False statement. I am conceding that Wiz and Tyutin are part of the same conversation. My issue with Wiz has always been his contract and role.

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Old
02-15-2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
Not necessarily advocating this but ask the question, what could you get for the Tyutin/Nikitin pair traded together?
A lot. I don't know that we've seen an actual pairing get traded as part of a deal, but a team that's thin on depth going into a stretch drive would probably be willing to part with significant assets, as in multiple first-round picks.

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02-15-2013, 11:04 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Correct. I think the NMC is there more to protect him from being put on waivers and sent to the AHL.
Yes, this is correct.
http://www.capgeek.com/faq/what-s-th...TC-and-NMC.php
A no-trade clause means a player cannot be traded without his consent. Consent is not required for waivers for assignment to the minors.

A no-move clause means a player cannot be traded, waived for a claim by another team, or assigned to the minors without his consent. This does not protect the player from a buyout.

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Old
02-15-2013, 11:05 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
A lot. I don't know that we've seen an actual pairing get traded as part of a deal, but a team that's thin on depth going into a stretch drive would probably be willing to part with significant assets, as in multiple first-round picks.
Not sure I completely agree with this.

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Old
02-15-2013, 11:06 AM
  #24
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Re-visiting my earlier question of trading the Tin/Tin pair...

What if you could pry Eberle and a pick out of EDM?

OR

Silfverberg ++ out of Ottawa?

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Old
02-15-2013, 11:11 AM
  #25
blahblah
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
Re-visiting my earlier question of trading the Tin/Tin pair...

What if you could pry Eberle and a pick out of EDM?

OR

Silfverberg ++ out of Ottawa?
I don't think you will ever see the pair moving as a unit. I suppose we can dream about it, but we aren't deep enough to consider it. I am not sure any of us are qualified to suggest what the other team would give up or what JK/JD would be interested it.

I would save give us time to get some history with these two before we really spend too much time considering it. We don't have enough history to make a reasonable hypothesis.

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