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Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

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02-15-2013, 09:52 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
This^. these kids have the talent and need to play more, not less. There will always be NHL level growing pains that can only be overcome at the NHL level, even though a lot of minutes at AHL can help. But that is help, not overcome; for that you need pro club minutes.

These are two cornerstones of our future who have demonstrated talent which must be shaped in an ability to excel at NHL. They need to play regularly HERE. The faster they have that full opportunity, the faster they can get past this initial stage pretty much all players experience which they hope to get past by end of their tenure as rookies/sophomores.

They will keep Kreider and still screw around with what shifts, where, etc. to use him, which we should not be surprised with the way Torts juggles lines.

Miller has already mastered the AHL. The only benefit there is more minutes via the first line. But as explained above, he should be here. The chains were relatively off a couple of games, and he excelled. They are now trying to reign him in, and this is the result.

If Slats can make the right deal, a roster spot might be available, and Miller will return sooner than later. If not, they will extend that extra year of ELC eligible status.
Miller hasn't mastered anything in the AHL yet. How can you say something ridiculous like this Bern?

Both him and Kreider both need more seasoning imo.

They need the opposite type of seasoning too. JT needs to work on this conditioning, and strength. Kreider needs to focus on the X's and O's. But they both need more time.

Having a player in the AHL is ideal when they are missing key components in their game. There are much better players in the AHL right now than both Kreider and Miller. They should both be playing 20 minutes a night, fine-tuning their game.

We're not a rebuilding team where we can afford to have players in the line-up that have some voids.

You have to be confident that Hartford's going to prepare these guys for the NHL. Look at our drafting history - look at the success rate of our homegrown players developing into everday NHL players.

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02-15-2013, 10:35 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Miller hasn't mastered anything in the AHL yet. How can you say something ridiculous like this Bern?

Both him and Kreider both need more seasoning imo.

They need the opposite type of seasoning too. JT needs to work on this conditioning, and strength. Kreider needs to focus on the X's and O's. But they both need more time.

Having a player in the AHL is ideal when they are missing key components in their game. There are much better players in the AHL right now than both Kreider and Miller. They should both be playing 20 minutes a night, fine-tuning their game.

We're not a rebuilding team where we can afford to have players in the line-up that have some voids.

You have to be confident that Hartford's going to prepare these guys for the NHL. Look at our drafting history - look at the success rate of our homegrown players developing into everday NHL players.
Kreider can help this team now like he did in the playoffs. His defense has improved IMO. I have a feeling kreider is gonna have a big run this season hopefully when he comes back next game

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02-15-2013, 10:42 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Miller hasn't mastered anything in the AHL yet. How can you say something ridiculous like this Bern?

Both him and Kreider both need more seasoning imo.

They need the opposite type of seasoning too. JT needs to work on this conditioning, and strength. Kreider needs to focus on the X's and O's. But they both need more time.

Having a player in the AHL is ideal when they are missing key components in their game. There are much better players in the AHL right now than both Kreider and Miller. They should both be playing 20 minutes a night, fine-tuning their game.

We're not a rebuilding team where we can afford to have players in the line-up that have some voids.
Who would you suggest replace them? I'd rather have a player or two who can actually impact a game and that have a couple of (relatively minor) holes in their games on my third line than simply plugging it with slugs who won't make as many mental mistakes, but can't impact the game much. At least the guys who get chances while giving a few up can tighten up their defensive games; the slugs aren't ever going to get better offensively.

Also, I would argue that the best contending teams (in any sport), those that figure out a way to contend year after year, do so by breaking in kids gradually on the big league roster and limiting their PT; they do NOT require them to become final, polished products at the next level down before promoting them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
You have to be confident that Hartford's going to prepare these guys for the NHL. Look at our drafting history - look at the success rate of our homegrown players developing into everday NHL players.
Except that I'm not. Yes, we have great success with the players that we draft... and then keep away from HFD (i.e. play in Europe, college, anywhere other than under KG's tutelage). I don't want any prospect with a modicum of offensive skill anywhere near Kenny "I was a borderline 3rd liner and I'll make you become one too if it kills me" Gernander.


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02-15-2013, 11:32 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Miller hasn't mastered anything in the AHL yet. How can you say something ridiculous like this Bern?

Both him and Kreider both need more seasoning imo.

They need the opposite type of seasoning too. JT needs to work on this conditioning, and strength. Kreider needs to focus on the X's and O's. But they both need more time.

Having a player in the AHL is ideal when they are missing key components in their game. There are much better players in the AHL right now than both Kreider and Miller. They should both be playing 20 minutes a night, fine-tuning their game.

We're not a rebuilding team where we can afford to have players in the line-up that have some voids.

You have to be confident that Hartford's going to prepare these guys for the NHL. Look at our drafting history - look at the success rate of our homegrown players developing into everday NHL players.
If we had good options to replace Miller and Kreider I would definitely agree with you. Or if they were hurting the team defensively. But there's no evidence that they are hurting the team. And their replacements are not going to be great shakes. So, I'm an advocate of having both continue to work on their games at the NHL level.

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02-15-2013, 11:34 AM
  #330
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If we had good options to replace Miller and Kreider I would definitely agree with you. Or if they were hurting the team defensively. But there's no evidence that they are hurting the team.
They are both stapled to the bench for the 3rd period of tight games. What more evidence do you need that theres still a lot of trust to develop with the coaching staff?

And if thats going to be the expectation, how does it help their development?

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02-15-2013, 11:37 AM
  #331
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I am curious as to what evidence of hurting the team defensively would look like.

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02-15-2013, 11:37 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
They are both stapled to the bench for the 3rd period of tight games. What more evidence do you need that theres still a lot of trust to develop with the coaching staff?

And if thats going to be the expectation, how does it help their development?
My big concern.

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02-15-2013, 11:39 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
They are both stapled to the bench for the 3rd period of tight games. What more evidence do you need that theres still a lot of trust to develop with the coaching staff?

And if thats going to be the expectation, how does it help their development?
Look that's up to Torts. He may a little more of a sample of both players before he plays them in defensive situations. They will have to defend to his satisfaction during the first 50 minutes of the game before he trusts them to protect a lead. But that doesn't mean they are better off in Hartford. I assume the coaching is better up here. So, if they are not hurting the team and there isn't anyone knocking the door down, I would like them to remain, learn and improve.

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02-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I like the player, that means I'm not objective?

He wasn't scratched because he was bad defensively. He was scratched because Boyle needed to play and Kreider didn't "do enough". He's bring over coached.

He's concerned with assignments. That's why he looks "tentative". Has anyone here tried to impress by doing something, but had to constantly worry they missed their assignment? It doesn't exactly give you the confidence to just go for it. Complicated systems are not easy for rookies to learn.

Kreider was far more effective in the playoffs because the coaching staff took a "hands off" approach and allowed him to just play.

In the offensive zone, he's even looking around making sure he's got his assignment down instead of attacking the net. Like he should be doing. Why?.Because if he loses his assignment and the opposition transitions up the ice, Kreider gets benched.

How do you build confidence like that? Its incredibly difficult. I went through it as a young defenseman in a ccomplicated system. With complex set plays. Rather then just playing. Rushing the puck like I was able to do, I was constantly being force fed systems and assignments and benched if I missed one. I can relate to this situation.

Give the kid a situation he can play his game and succeed in. He needs a center that can get him the puck. Like a broken record.

He won't ever be selke material. Stop it. What he can be however is a 30 goal scorer. Allow him to develop that way. He isn't lazy. No need to worry about that. He's not a prima. He's not high maintenance.

Feed him the puck.
Agree wholeheartedly. The biggest issue I have with Torts and the Rangers in general is their refusal to live and die with some mistakes that younger players will make in defensive responsibilities on the ice. It's why I won't be surprised when they send Miller down before sunday's game.
Miller and Kreider should be getting 12-15 minutes a game on a consistent basis because they have more ability and creativity in their pinkie fingers than Boyle will ever see in his life!

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02-15-2013, 12:02 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Look that's up to Torts. He may a little more of a sample of both players before he plays them in defensive situations. They will have to defend to his satisfaction during the first 50 minutes of the game before he trusts them to protect a lead. But that doesn't mean they are better off in Hartford. I assume the coaching is better up here. So, if they are not hurting the team and there isn't anyone knocking the door down, I would like them to remain, learn and improve.
Kreider at age 21 and an ELC thats already ticking? Yes, let him learn up here.

Miller at age 19? Nope. Let him play 20 mins a night in Hartford.

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02-15-2013, 12:05 PM
  #336
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I am curious as to what evidence of hurting the team defensively would look like.
John Tortorella said that he moved Miller to the wing because he was struggling with the defensive coverage down low.

I think for Bard to recognize a defensive lapse, it'd have to involve Miller collapsing on the ice, ******** himself, and letting his man score.

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02-15-2013, 12:06 PM
  #337
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Agree wholeheartedly. The biggest issue I have with Torts and the Rangers in general is their refusal to live and die with some mistakes that younger players will make in defensive responsibilities on the ice. It's why I won't be surprised when they send Miller down before sunday's game.
Miller and Kreider should be getting 12-15 minutes a game on a consistent basis because they have more ability and creativity in their pinkie fingers than Boyle will ever see in his life!
But in a 1 goal game in the last ten minutes, do you really want Miller and Kreider there, or Boyle?

At least with Boyle, you know neither side is likely scoring.

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02-15-2013, 12:07 PM
  #338
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The Whale have a 3 game weekend, no? If Miller was being sent down, wouldn't it have happened by now...?

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02-15-2013, 12:08 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Kreider at age 21 and an ELC thats already ticking? Yes, let him learn up here.

Miller at age 19? Nope. Let him play 20 mins a night in Hartford.
Miller can get more ice time but not the best teaching available. Plus who do we replace him with? I really don't want two 4th lines.

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02-15-2013, 12:13 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
John Tortorella said that he moved Miller to the wing because he was struggling with the defensive coverage down low.

I think for Bard to recognize a defensive lapse, it'd have to involve Miller collapsing on the ice, ******** himself, and letting his man score.
thanks for the vote of confidence dipwad. Without Torts making that statement you would have no idea if JT was playing up to the coach's expectations defensively. If I had read Torts' statement then I could make a pompous, insulting statement like you chose to make. I'm sure you and -31- know what Hank is doing when the Rangers are attacking because you two seem to know what's going on away from the puck even if its' not on TV.

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02-15-2013, 12:17 PM
  #341
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I'm sure you and -31- know what Hank is doing when the Rangers are attacking because you two seem to know what's going on away from the puck even if its' not on TV.
They normally show the whole defensive zone on the broadcasts I watch. If they don't on the broadcasts you watch, it explains so much.

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02-15-2013, 12:17 PM
  #342
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thanks for the vote of confidence dipwad. Without Torts making that statement you would have no idea if JT was playing up to the coach's expectations defensively. If I had read Torts' statement then I could make a pompous, insulting statement like you chose to make. I'm sure you and -31- know what Hank is doing when the Rangers are attacking because you two seem to know what's going on away from the puck even if its' not on TV.
Yes, I couldnt tell that Miller was struggling down low - its not like the camera is on the entire zone in those situations. What a strange argument to attempt to make.

Look, you've made it abundantly clear that you dont give a **** about the defensive side of the puck, and it looks like you wont make the effort to learn any time soon. Thats your choice.

The rest of us will just have to deal with your ignorant arguments, I guess.

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02-15-2013, 12:19 PM
  #343
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Miller can get more ice time but not the best teaching available. Plus who do we replace him with? I really don't want two 4th lines.
Miller down, one of Haley/Palmieri/Ferreiro/Mashinter up (preferably Mashinter as he can drop the gloves). Miller looked good but needs to spend time in the AHL. Both Kreider/Miller should be playing not riding pine. Neither should be on the 4th line either.

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Kreider - Richards - Gaborik
Pyatt - Boyle - Callahan
Asham - Halpern - Powe
extra guy

That 3rd line would be a total ***** to play against. Plus lets everyone play on their preferred wing. Why is this so hard Torts?!?

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02-15-2013, 12:22 PM
  #344
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At least with Boyle, you know neither side is likely scoring.
Awesome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
thanks for the vote of confidence dipwad. Without Torts making that statement you would have no idea if JT was playing up to the coach's expectations defensively. If I had read Torts' statement then I could make a pompous, insulting statement like you chose to make. I'm sure you and -31- know what Hank is doing when the Rangers are attacking because you two seem to know what's going on away from the puck even if its' not on TV.
Look at how Miller's huffing and puffing on the bench. Kid looks gassed. He's also struggling to get his ass off the ice when his shift is up which makes him a liability.

And, personally, I know exactly what Hank's doing when the Rangers are attacking, because I'm at the game. I can see

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02-15-2013, 12:22 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Oh Thats Nashty View Post
Miller down, one of Haley/Palmieri/Ferreiro/Mashinter up. Miller looked good but needs to spend time in the AHL. Both Kreider/Miller should be playing not riding pine. Neither should be on the 4th line either.

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Kreider - Richards - Gaborik
Pyatt - Boyle - Callahan
Asham - Halpern - Powe
extra guy

That 3rd line would be a total ***** to play against.
I agree. The first two lines have speed and scoring. The third line has toughness and the 4th line has been good latey also

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02-15-2013, 12:32 PM
  #346
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#NYR Chris Kreider has been sent back to AHL. Will play tonight for CT Whale. Team wants him to play rather than sit and watch
Well that is that......

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02-15-2013, 12:33 PM
  #347
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I'll be blown away if Kreider is sent down and Miller stays up.

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02-15-2013, 12:35 PM
  #348
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I'll be blown away if Kreider is sent down and Miller stays up.
Good timing on this post!

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02-15-2013, 12:35 PM
  #349
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I'll be blown away if Kreider is sent down and Miller stays up.
I am wondering if both players get sent down. Honestly, they both look like they need time down there. Let them play together and get some chemistry then bring them back up.

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02-15-2013, 12:36 PM
  #350
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Good timing on this post!
Well that should help Hartford for a bit. Kreider should go down and play better than he had. Eminger down there too. Maybe Slats wants the Whale to make the playoffs?

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