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Old
02-14-2013, 11:16 PM
  #576
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rThings are heating up again.

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02-14-2013, 11:23 PM
  #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no name View Post
There is little chance Bernier warns a firt round pick in this draft. This draft has been called the best in ten years and its loaded with north american goalies better than Bernier when he was drafted. Berniers stock has fallen since then.
Uh, what? There is not a single goalie as coveted as much as Bernier was in his draft in this draft. Fucale, Comrie, Martin, bunch of meh goalie prospects. Don't see any of them as 1st rounders. Bernier was a rare speciman when he was drafted, which is why no other goalie has gone higher than him since 06, when he was drafted. Obviously his value is not going to be judged by that though, a lot has changed since 06, but if Bernier was in this draft there would be no question who the top goaltending prospect would be, it would be Bernier by a mile.

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02-14-2013, 11:25 PM
  #578
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rThings are heating up again.
well its - 12 where i am right now some heat would be apprecaited lol i somehow dont think ur talking that thou

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02-14-2013, 11:38 PM
  #579
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rThings are heating up again.
Tonellisghost for a 5th.

His character is bad for the team..

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02-15-2013, 12:28 AM
  #580
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Tonellisghost for a 5th.

His character is bad for the team..
Deal!!!


Sucker

A 5th would be overpayment. Have you seen my knees? And I wouldn't pass an MRI at this point.

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02-15-2013, 12:31 AM
  #581
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
Tonellisghost for a 5th.

His character is bad for the team..
Worth fifth overall even with his barbie doll knees

Every team would love r o r on their third line. If Ryan wanted that he'd be playing in the NHL

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02-15-2013, 07:43 AM
  #582
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I sure would like Ryan O on the kings. Maybe Stoll a prospect and a pick?

Stoll, a 2nd and Vey? Toffoli? King?

ROR as a #3 is a sick idea.
That for an RFA that still could hold out or possibly sign an offer sheet with another team? No thanks. I'd rather the Kings just offer sheet him and give up the picks if they want him. Another question would be, do the Kings have the room to fit another possible high priced d-man in under the cap with Quick's extension kicking in next year? Seems like they'd have to give up future assets as well to get him and I'm no posisitive it'd be worth it...

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02-15-2013, 09:27 AM
  #583
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
That for an RFA that still could hold out or possibly sign an offer sheet with another team? No thanks. I'd rather the Kings just offer sheet him and give up the picks if they want him. Another question would be, do the Kings have the room to fit another possible high priced d-man in under the cap with Quick's extension kicking in next year? Seems like they'd have to give up future assets as well to get him and I'm no posisitive it'd be worth it...
You'd make the trade contigent on him signing a contract first.

Secondly, ROR has turned down a reported 5 year, $17 million deal, so a cap hit of $3.4 million. The compensation on a $3.4 million offer is a 1st and a 3rd, and he wants more than that. I'd rather send them Stoll and a 2nd and King, as HTK stated. To me, that's a steal for ROR.

Thirdly, to sign ROR to an offer sheet, we must have those draft picks in this years draft. We don't, COlumbus has our first, so we couldn't offersheet him even if we wanted too.

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02-15-2013, 09:58 AM
  #584
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When is the trade deadline this season?

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:59 AM
  #585
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I'd never throw a vey/Toffoli with a second for ROR. A top 6 player and a second in a deep draft is robbery.

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02-15-2013, 10:02 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
You'd make the trade contigent on him signing a contract first.

Secondly, ROR has turned down a reported 5 year, $17 million deal, so a cap hit of $3.4 million. The compensation on a $3.4 million offer is a 1st and a 3rd, and he wants more than that. I'd rather send them Stoll and a 2nd and King, as HTK stated. To me, that's a steal for ROR.

Thirdly, to sign ROR to an offer sheet, we must have those draft picks in this years draft. We don't, COlumbus has our first, so we couldn't offersheet him even if we wanted too.
Unless the rules on that have changed I thought it was the soonest pick in the next 2 years regarding RFA offer sheets. The Kings don't have their 1st this year so it would be next years 1st and this years 3rd in the example you gave.

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02-15-2013, 10:22 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
I'd never throw a vey/Toffoli with a second for ROR. A top 6 player and a second in a deep draft is robbery.
Since neither has played an NHL game, it's rather hard to call them a top 6 player. At the same age we called Loktionov a top 6 player. How's that working out? ROR is the proven top 6 player, hence he'll cost a fair bit.

Secondly, outside of rare cases such as 2003 and 1979, or weak cases like 1996, all drafts tradiaationally pan out to be average. Every second year the draft class is supposed to be either great or weak, deep or shallow. But most pan out to to be the same. Even those which are deep, that depth doesn't extend into the mid-2nd round very often. In most drafts, the success rate of a 2nd round pick is about 20-30 per cent (that the player will play the equivalent of two full NHL seasons).

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02-15-2013, 10:31 AM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
Unless the rules on that have changed I thought it was the soonest pick in the next 2 years regarding RFA offer sheets. The Kings don't have their 1st this year so it would be next years 1st and this years 3rd in the example you gave.
Barring any changes, the are the same as the last CBA. Here's a breakdown on the rules:

http://thehockeywriters.com/2011-12-...nsation-rules/

Quote:
Clubs owing one (1) draft selection must have it available in the next draft.
Clubs owing two (2) draft selections in different rounds must have them available in the next draft.
Clubs owing three (3) draft selections in different rounds must have them available in the next draft.
Clubs owing two (2) draft selections in the same round, must have them available in the next three (3) drafts.
Clubs owing three (3) draft selections in the same round must have them available in the next four (4) drafts, and so on.
When a Club owes two (2) or more draft selections in the same round, the signing Club does not elect the years in which such selections shall be awarded to the Prior Club; rather, the selections next available will be transferred to the Prior Club (i.e., a Club that owes two (2) selections has them available in the next two (2) drafts –that is when they are transferred).
So, assuming the compensation for ROR comes in as a 1st and a 3rd, it'd be "Clubs owing two (2) draft selections in different rounds must have them available in the next draft." In other words, a 1st and a 3rd for the 2013 NHL Entry Draft. Since draft picks also have to be the ones granted to the team by the league (AKA your own draft picks, not another teams' first) we are ineligible to sign an RFA offer sheet for someone requiring a 1st as compensation.

If somehow ROR gets offer over $5 million per season, then the compensation would rise to a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, but once again: "Clubs owing three (3) draft selections in different rounds must have them available in the next draft." We are out of that bidding as well, once again due to our missing first.

The only way we could RFA offer sheet ROR is to offer enough to warrant "Clubs owing two (2) draft selections in the same round, must have them available in the next three (3) drafts."

According to the current seasons RFA scale found here: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/20...e-offer-sheets To get ROR we'd need to offer a salary worthy of two firsts, a 2nd and a 3rd, which would require an offer of at least $6,728,781 annually, or enough to make him basically equal in pay to Kopitar.

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:35 AM
  #589
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Since neither has played an NHL game, it's rather hard to call them a top 6 player. At the same age we called Loktionov a top 6 player. How's that working out? ROR is the proven top 6 player, hence he'll cost a fair bit.

Secondly, outside of rare cases such as 2003 and 1979, or weak cases like 1996, all drafts tradiaationally pan out to be average. Every second year the draft class is supposed to be either great or weak, deep or shallow. But most pan out to to be the same. Even those which are deep, that depth doesn't extend into the mid-2nd round very often. In most drafts, the success rate of a 2nd round pick is about 20-30 per cent (that the player will play the equivalent of two full NHL seasons).
You can't say that Loktionov doesn'thave what it takes to pplay top 6 just because he didn't play on our top 2 cause we had no room. I'd still wouldn't give up Toffoli and a second. Stoll and Toffoli is more fair.

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02-15-2013, 10:44 AM
  #590
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
You can't say that Loktionov doesn'thave what it takes to pplay top 6 just because he didn't play on our top 2 cause we had no room. I'd still wouldn't give up Toffoli and a second. Stoll and Toffoli is more fair.
I'm not saying Loki doesn't have it, I'm saying look at what his trade value is.

The proven guy (in this case ROR) is obviously more valueable than the unproven guy (Vey/Toffoli/Loki/etc.)

I'm not arguing with you if you want to give up a Toffoli or whatever to get ROR, but if you want ROR that's the price tag. The notion of getting ROR for Stoll, a 2nd and someone like Vey or King is underpaying market value wise. Toffoli may have the right value, depending on how Colorado thinks of him, but when it comes to trade value, prospects typically have the lowest actual value in trades, even less than draft picks. Loki was a prime example, so is the trade deadline.

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02-15-2013, 11:12 AM
  #591
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Uh, what? There is not a single goalie as coveted as much as Bernier was in his draft in this draft. Fucale, Comrie, Martin, bunch of meh goalie prospects. Don't see any of them as 1st rounders. Bernier was a rare speciman when he was drafted, which is why no other goalie has gone higher than him since 06, when he was drafted. Obviously his value is not going to be judged by that though, a lot has changed since 06, but if Bernier was in this draft there would be no question who the top goaltending prospect would be, it would be Bernier by a mile.
There was just some draft analyst on The Point and he was just asked about Berniers value. I pretty much scribed exactly what he said. He said Bernier's value is dim due to there being 2 North American goalies who are graded higher than Bernier upon being drafted and one neck and neck. He said you can make an argument that bernier is developed and could possibly step in now but questions have been raised if Bernier can be a starter in the NHL.

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02-15-2013, 11:18 AM
  #592
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You'd make the trade contigent on him signing a contract first.

Secondly, ROR has turned down a reported 5 year, $17 million deal, so a cap hit of $3.4 million. The compensation on a $3.4 million offer is a 1st and a 3rd, and he wants more than that. I'd rather send them Stoll and a 2nd and King, as HTK stated. To me, that's a steal for ROR.

Thirdly, to sign ROR to an offer sheet, we must have those draft picks in this years draft. We don't, COlumbus has our first, so we couldn't offersheet him even if we wanted too.
I don't think we'll see him for two years. I heard he signed a 2 year 13 million dollar contract playin alongside his brother. Playing with his brother has been a dream of his.

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02-15-2013, 11:20 AM
  #593
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There was just some draft analyst on The Point and he was just asked about Berniers value. I pretty much scribed exactly what he said. He said Bernier's value is dim due to there being 2 North American goalies who are graded higher than Bernier upon being drafted and one neck and neck. He said you can make an argument that bernier is developed and could possibly step in now but questions have been raised if Bernier can be a starter in the NHL.
Bernier won't have the same value as any draft eligible goalie. It's two totally different markets. A draft eligible goalie is someone a team picks up looking to fill a hole they may have in 3-6 years time (or maybe even more). Bernier is someone a team will pick up in hopes he can become a starter immediately or next season.

Odds are the two markets will involve two totally different teams as well. For example, the Rangers won't trade for Bernier as they have Lundqvist, but they may draft a goalie since Lundqvist is 31 next month and, assuming it takes four years for the guy they draft to reach the NHL full time and another two years as a backup, when he's ready to be a starter, Lundqvist would be 37 and on his way out in all likelihood.

You can't compare the trade value of a kid in his draft year with a guy like Bernier. It's apples and oranges.

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02-15-2013, 11:22 AM
  #594
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I don't think we'll see him for two years. I heard he signed a 2 year 13 million dollar contract playin alongside his brother. Playing with his brother has been a dream of his.
Who?

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02-15-2013, 11:40 AM
  #595
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I don't think Dean starts actively drafting and/or trading for talented young centers until all of Kopitar/Richards/Carter are north of 30 and we're looking at a rebuild in the near future.

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02-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #596
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Who?
Thanks for clarifying the compensation rules first off.

No name is talking about ROR, he signed in the KHL to play alongside his borther who was playing there. Last I had heard ROR was injured and had terminated his contract in the KHL though, but that was like at least a week ago I thought...

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02-15-2013, 11:48 AM
  #597
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Thanks for clarifying the compensation rules first off.

No name is talking about ROR, he signed in the KHL to play alongside his borther who was playing there. Last I had heard ROR was injured and had terminated his contract in the KHL though, but that was like at least a week ago I thought...
Three weks ago actually, that's why I was confused.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl...0344--nhl.html

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02-15-2013, 12:17 PM
  #598
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Secondly, outside of rare cases such as 2003 and 1979....

....the next one is 2015!!!

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02-15-2013, 12:22 PM
  #599
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Forget about Ryan O'Reilly. The Avs are rumored to be asking for a top six forward and a top prospect, two items the Kings can't afford to offer, especially for another center. Where are you going to play him? On the 3rd or 4th line? Up front, the Kings need wingers who can create offense, not more centers.

And I would think that Dean Lombardi's concern right now is shoring up his defense. They're healthy up front and have plenty of bodies on offense. The same can't be said about their patchwork defense with three regulars now out of the lineup.

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02-15-2013, 12:27 PM
  #600
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If the Islanders are willing to part with Grabner, I wouldn't mind Dean looking into that. Give them Stoll++. Grabner would be a good fit for us because of his speed and offensive instincts that can counter our offensively stagnant system. I think we are at the point defensively where we can afford to get a couple of these guys who just want to score goals and have the ability to do it single handedly.

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