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02-15-2013, 11:32 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
And I would be willing to bet large amounts of money that you may have misread or made a mistake or misunderstood something in that rule book, no matter how well you know that rule book.
It doesn't matter if he isn't intimately familiar with the CBA. He isn't paid to know it and use it daily. Unlike a certain other GM who clearly isn't that strong on the CBA.

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02-15-2013, 11:45 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It doesn't matter if he isn't intimately familiar with the CBA. He isn't paid to know it and use it daily. Unlike a certain other GM who clearly isn't that strong on the CBA.
Wait, what? The poster said he is charged at his job in enforcing a company rule book. I said that I would bet that he has made mistakes, misread, or misinterpreted the rule book at some point (like everyone else on the planet who has made a mistake in their job).

You have to understand what I am saying. People point to his CBA foibles and act like it is a travesty and he should be fired immediately and that any other person would be in another job. I have said before that sports is not comparable to other jobs, but assuming that it is, I don't think that people automatically lose their jobs for what could be called a comparable mistake. I have seen it, I have done it, and I am sure others have seen and done it. If you make a mistake, you make a mistake. If your history is that you have not otherwise been successful at your job, you will probably lose your job. If your history is that you have been successful, mistakes are forgiven. Homer has made mistakes regarding the CBA. The mistakes have been minimal in both number and impact. His track record is positive overall.

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02-15-2013, 11:52 AM
  #78
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good. this team isn't winning anything this year so why blow it up

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02-15-2013, 12:28 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Wait, what? The poster said he is charged at his job in enforcing a company rule book. I said that I would bet that he has made mistakes, misread, or misinterpreted the rule book at some point (like everyone else on the planet who has made a mistake in their job).

You have to understand what I am saying. People point to his CBA foibles and act like it is a travesty and he should be fired immediately and that any other person would be in another job. I have said before that sports is not comparable to other jobs, but assuming that it is, I don't think that people automatically lose their jobs for what could be called a comparable mistake. I have seen it, I have done it, and I am sure others have seen and done it. If you make a mistake, you make a mistake. If your history is that you have not otherwise been successful at your job, you will probably lose your job. If your history is that you have been successful, mistakes are forgiven. Homer has made mistakes regarding the CBA. The mistakes have been minimal in both number and impact. His track record is positive overall.
Whoops, missed the earlier post.

As for Homer's mistakes...can you name another GM who has clearly made more? I don't think any other GM has had more mistakes on his watch, unless it's in a small market and gets no attention. He struggles with the CBA, as well as managing the cap...which is part of the CBA. The cap issues aren't minor in the slightest and have a huge impact.

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02-15-2013, 12:39 PM
  #80
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@TheFourthPeriod: O'Reilly 'sweepstakes' are picking up, plenty of interest from the likes of TOR, BUF, PHI, NYI and others, but still nothing seems imminent

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02-15-2013, 12:52 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Whoops, missed the earlier post.

As for Homer's mistakes...can you name another GM who has clearly made more? I don't think any other GM has had more mistakes on his watch, unless it's in a small market and gets no attention. He struggles with the CBA, as well as managing the cap...which is part of the CBA. The cap issues aren't minor in the slightest and have a huge impact.
No I don't know of any other GMs that have misinterpreted or misunderstood the CBA. But again, Homer's mistakes relating to the CBA, are not as big a deal as you would make them out to be. If they lost the rights to Giroux because of it, ok get rid of him. But that isn't the case. The Flyers got hamstrung with the Pronger deal and they lost out on Hyka. The Pronger deal has not had any seriously negative effects that I can surmise (please, correct me if I am wrong) and the Hyka mishap is another non-issue. What other misunderstanding of the CBA happened (not saying nothing else occurred, but I just can't remember anything else atm).

Cap management is not a misunderstanding or misreading of the CBA. They are two completely different things. Homer's cap management has not been an issue for several years. While we are all familiar with the infamous David Sloane PTO, what other issues have their been? I understand you want the team to have $25 million in cap space at the deadline every year, but there is nothing wrong with being at the cap limit if the team is competitive.

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02-15-2013, 01:13 PM
  #82
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Homer's Cap management was an issue only last offseason. When we didn't have enough cap space to sign Bryz and fill the other roster spots. It's an issue right now, while we have a huge chunk tied up in D and underwhelming results compared to teams spending less.

Losing 5 million every offseason because of Pronger's contract is a big problem. That's an entire roster player they're unable to pursue each year, because he burns up the offseason cushion. That mistake is problematic every offseason.

Edit: It's hard to consider Hyka a non-issue, when it's a symptom of a larger disorder. That's a forward prospect our depleted pool needs. We don't have him as an option because Homer didn't know the rules. It's a GM's job to put the team in the best position to succeed, and misunderstanding the rules doesn't help improve the team's position. Missing out on decent prospects does not improve the team's position.

Edit 2: The cap is part of the league structure defined by the CBA. It's a part of the CBA. It's a part of the league. Holmgren often struggles to operate within the structure of the CBA.


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02-15-2013, 01:17 PM
  #83
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Barry Hanrahan is our assistant GM and is our capalogist. He is responsible for making sure the team can fit under the cap. Now I am not blaming him for all the mistakes, but we should definitely think about getting a new assistant GM to handle the cap.

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02-15-2013, 01:18 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
@TheFourthPeriod: O'Reilly 'sweepstakes' are picking up, plenty of interest from the likes of TOR, BUF, PHI, NYI and others, but still nothing seems imminent
Surprised to see the NYI on this list.

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02-15-2013, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Barry Hanrahan is our assistant GM and is our capalogist. He is responsible for making sure the team can fit under the cap. Now I am not blaming him for all the mistakes, but we should definitely think about getting a new assistant GM to handle the cap.
I don't know why he still has a job. Once again, that falls upon Holmgren. How often does a guy need to fail to correct/aid you until you let him go?

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02-15-2013, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I don't know why he still has a job. Once again, that falls upon Holmgren. How often does a guy need to fail to correct/aid you until you let him go?
I completely agree. I would have fired him after the Pronger situation. We need to get someone in here that actually knows what they are doing. I have no clue why Homer or Snider even haven't let him go.

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02-15-2013, 01:25 PM
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The Pronger situation was an unacceptable mistake. Screwing up Talbot's contract, which came down to simple math very clearly defined in the CBA should have been the final straw.

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02-15-2013, 01:37 PM
  #88
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Can't we just buy out Pronger like habs did with Gomez? if we can i think we should.. its not like hes helping us in any way..

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02-15-2013, 01:38 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by hedba View Post
Can't we just buy out Pronger like habs did with Gomez? if we can i think we should.. its not like hes helping us in any way..
Can't buy someone out on IR

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02-15-2013, 01:50 PM
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Can't buy someone out on IR
**** that then, put him on ice anyways and then buy out

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02-15-2013, 02:14 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Homer's Cap management was an issue only last offseason. When we didn't have enough cap space to sign Bryz and fill the other roster spots. It's an issue right now, while we have a huge chunk tied up in D and underwhelming results compared to teams spending less.
How is his cap management an issue right now? Just because a team spends to the cap does not mean the GM is doing something wrong. There is a lot of money in the team's defense, I agree, and if everyone was healthy I don't hink anyone would be complaining. Surely you can't be upset with Timonen, Coburn, Schenn, AND Grossman's contracts? They aren't playing great, that doesn't mean Homer has bad cap management. Mez is probably making a little too much, but again, if he was healthy no one would be complaining that he is slightly overpaid. As far as Bryz is concerned, it is debatable whether or not those trades were made to make room for Bryz, or to simply improve the team in general.

Quote:
Losing 5 million every offseason because of Pronger's contract is a big problem. That's an entire roster player they're unable to pursue each year, because he burns up the offseason cushion. That mistake is problematic every offseason.
I don't remember this being an issue last offseason when the team tried to sign all three of the biggest free agents. But yeah, I guess if Pronger's contract wasn't there they could have tried to sign them harder...

Quote:
Edit: It's hard to consider Hyka a non-issue, when it's a symptom of a larger disorder. That's a forward prospect our depleted pool needs. We don't have him as an option because Homer didn't know the rules. It's a GM's job to put the team in the best position to succeed, and misunderstanding the rules doesn't help improve the team's position. Missing out on decent prospects does not improve the team's position.
You are right, and like I said, the minimal impact it had (has) on this team is forgivable. Yes it would be better to have Hyka available to call up to play two games and some day maybe be a third or fourth line winger. But when you have Wellwood, Akeson, McGinn, Noebels, Cousins, etc., the impact is not great. Unless of course you are insinuating that Hyka is going to be more than that, which is what leads me to criticize people for overreating certain prospects.

Quote:
Edit 2: The cap is part of the league structure defined by the CBA. It's a part of the CBA. It's a part of the league. Holmgren often struggles to operate within the structure of the CBA.
He doesn't have perfect cap management skills. That doesn't mean he is misunderstanding the CBA. If you are going to say his cap management abilities goes to his understanding of the CBA because the cap is in the CBA, then I would say about 25 GMs don't understand the CBA because they make bad trades, signings, etc. that show their struggles to operate within the structure of the CBA. Come on.

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