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Bills Off-Season 2013 Style (Wilson, Barnett, McGee released, T Jackson re-signed)

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Old
02-15-2013, 12:09 PM
  #851
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Tarvaris Jackson for $4.5M? Mind successfully boggled. With all the salary they're cutting, they either plan to make some BIG offers or we're looking at a very bad season next year.

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02-15-2013, 12:11 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Tarvaris Jackson for $4.5M? Mind successfully boggled. With all the salary they're cutting, they either plan to make some BIG offers or we're looking at a very bad season next year.
That's the price tag??? Wow.

Just means that the loser of the competition for backup between he and Fitz would be cut outright, with ideally a rook winning the job

Or the winner out of TJ/Fitz serving as interim, one year stop gap to EJ Manuel or a different qb not taken in round one.

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02-15-2013, 12:14 PM
  #853
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It's a good move. Especially if Buffalo plans on drafting a QB high in the draft. Let Fitzpatrick and Jackson compete, and the rookie can sit out a year learning. Makes a lot of sense, if they draft a talented QB this year.
Let Fitzpatrick and Jackson compete for what, to see who can possibly do worse? I don't get how it's a good move to allow two bad players the chance to compete at a starting job. I also don't see what any rookie is going to learn sitting behind either of them for a year.

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02-15-2013, 12:16 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
I honestly don't see what Fitzpatrick has to offer at this point. I'm hoping they're just saving face until a March 1 axe job. I'd rather sign Matt Moore to compete. Alex Smith is floating, so this is still a fluid situation.
Alex Smith offer marginally more talent than Fitzpatrick. In the end, Smith is a short term starter. Fitzpatrick is a quality #2 QB on almost every team in the league. That's his role.

Matt Moore played on a team that ran a lot and kept it close to the vest, and made simple plays. In an sort of complicated scheme, like what Hackett intends to run, he's no better than Fitzpatrick, and might be worse.

The best course is to draft a rookie and develop him into the starter. Let Fitzpatrick and Jackson play 1/2. When the rookie is ready, a year or so, cut the QB that's the reserve, and make the starter the backup. How would that work?

Draft Geno Smith (if he falls) or Mike Glennon. Sit for a year, because both have elite talents but neither is ready. Assume Fitzpatrick wins the job. Jackson is his back up for 2013. In 2014, cut Jackson and make Fitzpatrick the backup, and start Smith/Glennon.

Reverse Jackson's and Fitzpatrick's names, and it works the same.

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02-15-2013, 12:20 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Let Fitzpatrick and Jackson compete for what, to see who can possibly do worse? I don't get how it's a good move to allow two bad players the chance to compete at a starting job. I also don't see what any rookie is going to learn sitting behind either of them for a year.
Which rookie QB is ready to play in 2013? Barkley, probably. Jones or Nassib, maybe. Geno Smith, Glennon, and Bray needs at least a year to transition their game to the NFL. So unless you're determined to take Barkley, there's no other surefire guy that can start.

So, what do you do? Sign Jackson and compete him against your current starter. If you draft a rookie high (round 1-2) then what are you really losing? A year? Who cares. You've got your franchise QB. Lots of teams draft QBs high and sit them behind a marginal starter. And it works pretty frequently.

A franchise QB is the true need for Buffalo. No need rushing to upgrade for 2013 - think 2014 through 2024.

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02-15-2013, 12:31 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Which rookie QB is ready to play in 2013? Barkley, probably. Jones or Nassib, maybe. Geno Smith, Glennon, and Bray needs at least a year to transition their game to the NFL. So unless you're determined to take Barkley, there's no other surefire guy that can start.

So, what do you do? Sign Jackson and compete him against your current starter. If you draft a rookie high (round 1-2) then what are you really losing? A year? Who cares. You've got your franchise QB. Lots of teams draft QBs high and sit them behind a marginal starter. And it works pretty frequently.

A franchise QB is the true need for Buffalo. No need rushing to upgrade for 2013 - think 2014 through 2024.
You ditch them both and get Alex Smith. Despite your previous post, Smith is better than Fitzpatrick. You give him the starting job, draft a QB to groom and go from there. There's zero point in having garbage battle garbage to see which one is worse.

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02-15-2013, 12:48 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Which rookie QB is ready to play in 2013? Barkley, probably. Jones or Nassib, maybe. Geno Smith, Glennon, and Bray needs at least a year to transition their game to the NFL. So unless you're determined to take Barkley, there's no other surefire guy that can start.

So, what do you do? Sign Jackson and compete him against your current starter. If you draft a rookie high (round 1-2) then what are you really losing? A year? Who cares. You've got your franchise QB. Lots of teams draft QBs high and sit them behind a marginal starter. And it works pretty frequently.

A franchise QB is the true need for Buffalo. No need rushing to upgrade for 2013 - think 2014 through 2024.
I wouldn't take a QB until round 2 at the earliest. LB or CB at 8 seems to just make the most sense..... if everyone thinks these QBs aren't worth drafting than they will fall into the 2nd round easy.

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Old
02-15-2013, 12:53 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
You ditch them both and get Alex Smith. Despite your previous post, Smith is better than Fitzpatrick. You give him the starting job, draft a QB to groom and go from there. There's zero point in having garbage battle garbage to see which one is worse.
Think that'd work for all sides? Works for Buffalo. You think that works for Alex Smith?

Why would Smith go to a team that doesn't envision him as the long term starter? Buddy Nix has bee talking about drafting a QB high in the draft for almost six months now. Why wouldn't Smith just go to Arizona, KC, or somewhere else that might not intend to draft a QB of the future?

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02-15-2013, 12:56 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Think that'd work for all sides? Works for Buffalo. You think that works for Alex Smith?

Why would Smith go to a team that doesn't envision him as the long term starter? Buddy Nix has bee talking about drafting a QB high in the draft for almost six months now. Why wouldn't Smith just go to Arizona, KC, or somewhere else that might not intend to draft a QB of the future?
Smith has the option of being a long term starter anywhere he goes, Buffalo included. None of those teams are going to guarantee he starts for a certain amount of time, nor are any of them going to guarantee they don't draft a QB this year or next. If Smith comes to Buffalo and plays well, he'll start the 2014 season, even if Buffalo drafts a QB in the first round.

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02-15-2013, 01:02 PM
  #860
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A potential trade for Smith most likely precludes taking a QB early in the draft. It doesn't make sense to do both.

And Smith is far superior to Fitzpatrick. That shouldn't need to be pointed out.

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02-15-2013, 01:04 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
A potential trade for Smith most likely precludes drafting a QB in round 1. It doesn't make sense to do both.

And Smith is far superior to Fitzpatrick. That shouldn't need to be pointed out.
No he really isn't. Better yes... far superior no

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02-15-2013, 01:05 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Smith has the option of being a long term starter anywhere he goes, Buffalo included. None of those teams are going to guarantee he starts for a certain amount of time, nor are any of them going to guarantee they don't draft a QB this year or next. If Smith comes to Buffalo and plays well, he'll start the 2014 season, even if Buffalo drafts a QB in the first round.
Don't think like a fan. Think like Alex Smith.

Arizona. Crappy QBs, bad OL. Good HC.
Buffalo. Crappy QBs. GM that's stated he's leaving after he drafts a franchise QB.
Kansas City. Crappy QBs. Great HC. Decent talent.
Jacksonville. Crappy QBs. Bad team. Unproven head coach.
NY Jets. Crappy QB. Pretty decent team. Good HC.

Rank order where you'd like to go.

KC, Jets, Buffalo, Arizona, Jacksonville.

Smith works for Buffalo. Buffalo isn't the best choice for Smith.

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02-15-2013, 01:09 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
A potential trade for Smith most likely precludes taking a QB early in the draft. It doesn't make sense to do both.

And Smith is far superior to Fitzpatrick. That shouldn't need to be pointed out.
Alex Smith got protected in San Francisco. Run first offense, power offensive line, great tight end. Smith was never asked to carry that team. He was protected and never asked to do too much. Interesting that Smith goes out, a talented second year QB that can't anticipate throws comes in, and they go one game farther.

Buffalo isn't trading for Smith. This move pretty much solidifies it. Buffalo's way better off drafting and developing a QB. Smith is what he is. A developed Geno Smith or Mike Glennon is a better QB.

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02-15-2013, 01:10 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Don't think like a fan. Think like Alex Smith.

Arizona. Crappy QBs, bad OL. Good HC.
Buffalo. Crappy QBs. GM that's stated he's leaving after he drafts a franchise QB.
Kansas City. Crappy QBs. Great HC. Decent talent.
Jacksonville. Crappy QBs. Bad team. Unproven head coach.
NY Jets. Crappy QB. Pretty decent team. Good HC.

Rank order where you'd like to go.

KC, Jets, Buffalo, Arizona, Jacksonville.

Smith works for Buffalo. Buffalo isn't the best choice for Smith.
Kc has no interest in Smith and I'm not sure you can say the Jets are a decent team.... their defense is about to lose a lot of parts and their offense has nothing special..... besides it isn't like Smith will get to choose where he does (SF will trade him)

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02-15-2013, 01:13 PM
  #865
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I don't want Alex Smith. He is turning 29 in a few months, so his prime of his career will be over shortly.He has never thrown for 20 Tds in a season.Thrown for 3000+ yards just once. He has a sub 60% career completion percentage. I'd rather draft a QB for the future (either Nassib or Geno Smith) and stick with them. If Alex Smith gets cut then sure I wouldn't mind signing him, but no way in hell should we give up any draft pick for him. He looked good for 1 and a half years but that was all due to his elite defense on his team. Kaepernick came in and looked far better with the same team.

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02-15-2013, 01:22 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Kc has no interest in Smith and I'm not sure you can say the Jets are a decent team.... their defense is about to lose a lot of parts and their offense has nothing special..... besides it isn't like Smith will get to choose where he does (SF will trade him)
How do you know KC has no interest? Reid hasn't had a rookie QB as his bonafide starter since McNabb was a rookie. He's worked with Kolb and Foles, but only due to injury. When McNabb slowed down, he brought in Vick.

Geno Smith isn't really worth the 1st overall pick. Why wouldn't he trade for Smith, then draft BPA, and get a second round QB? That's been Reid's MO with Kolb and Foles anyway.

Sure, Smith gets no say in where he goes. But you think SF is going to dump him ingloriously?

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02-15-2013, 01:22 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Don't think like a fan. Think like Alex Smith.

Arizona. Crappy QBs, bad OL. Good HC.
Buffalo. Crappy QBs. GM that's stated he's leaving after he drafts a franchise QB.
Kansas City. Crappy QBs. Great HC. Decent talent.
Jacksonville. Crappy QBs. Bad team. Unproven head coach.
NY Jets. Crappy QB. Pretty decent team. Good HC.

Rank order where you'd like to go.

KC, Jets, Buffalo, Arizona, Jacksonville.

Smith works for Buffalo. Buffalo isn't the best choice for Smith.
What is the point of this? Does Smith have a no trade clause? Unless he gets released, none of it matters. And you should stop reading so much into Nix's comments.

Their best option is to upgrade the veteran starter (Smith over Fitzpatrick) and select a better QB prospect in a better draft class down the line. All of this year's QBs have major flaws and none of them are likely to have an impact this season.

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02-15-2013, 01:29 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Don't think like a fan. Think like Alex Smith.

Arizona. Crappy QBs, bad OL. Good HC.
Buffalo. Crappy QBs. GM that's stated he's leaving after he drafts a franchise QB.
Kansas City. Crappy QBs. Great HC. Decent talent.
Jacksonville. Crappy QBs. Bad team. Unproven head coach.
NY Jets. Crappy QB. Pretty decent team. Good HC.

Rank order where you'd like to go.

KC, Jets, Buffalo, Arizona, Jacksonville.

Smith works for Buffalo. Buffalo isn't the best choice for Smith.


How about

Buffalo: Very good O-Line, excellent running backs with good pass catching abilities. Good #1 receiver, lack of WR depth, awful defense

Buffalo makes a lot of sense for Alex. Not to mention it's much more likely that he's traded (in which he'll have no say) than for SF to release him. He obviously has value so they'll just trade him and get assets back.

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02-15-2013, 01:29 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
What is the point of this? Does Smith have a no trade clause? Unless he gets released, none of it matters. And you should stop reading so much into Nix's comments.

Their best option is to upgrade the veteran starter (Smith over Fitzpatrick) and select a better QB prospect in a better draft class down the line. All of this year's QBs have major flaws and none of them are likely to have an impact this season.
When has Nix spoken to the media and said anything completely 180 from his intentions? He talked about adding a waterbug RB. He talked about strengthening the defense. He poo-pooed the 2012 DE class. Almost everything he says has some indication as to where the team is actually going.

Smith makes $8.5 million in 2013. Think that Smith doesn't have a say? Which team is taking that on? If SF wants to trade him to Jacksonville, all he has to do to block the deal is have his agent say he refused to restructure. No team is taking on that contract without thinking he's the starter. So, Smith can play into where he goes.

Geno Smith and Mike Glennon have elite tools but aren't ready to play in 2014... agree. So we shouldn't draft them? You've got a 2013 mindset on how to build the team.

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02-15-2013, 01:33 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Don't think like a fan. Think like Alex Smith.

Arizona. Crappy QBs, bad OL. Good HC.
Buffalo. Crappy QBs. GM that's stated he's leaving after he drafts a franchise QB.
Kansas City. Crappy QBs. Great HC. Decent talent.
Jacksonville. Crappy QBs. Bad team. Unproven head coach.
NY Jets. Crappy QB. Pretty decent team. Good HC.

Rank order where you'd like to go.

KC, Jets, Buffalo, Arizona, Jacksonville.

Smith works for Buffalo. Buffalo isn't the best choice for Smith.
Alright, I'll think like Alex Smith:

Where am I going to get a chance to play while making the most money?

Buffalo can certainly fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
I don't want Alex Smith. He is turning 29 in a few months, so his prime of his career will be over shortly.He has never thrown for 20 Tds in a season.Thrown for 3000+ yards just once. He has a sub 60% career completion percentage. I'd rather draft a QB for the future (either Nassib or Geno Smith) and stick with them. If Alex Smith gets cut then sure I wouldn't mind signing him, but no way in hell should we give up any draft pick for him. He looked good for 1 and a half years but that was all due to his elite defense on his team. Kaepernick came in and looked far better with the same team.

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02-15-2013, 01:34 PM
  #871
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
When has Nix spoken to the media and said anything completely 180 from his intentions? He talked about adding a waterbug RB. He talked about strengthening the defense. He poo-pooed the 2012 DE class. Almost everything he says has some indication as to where the team is actually going.

Smith makes $8.5 million in 2013. Think that Smith doesn't have a say? Which team is taking that on? If SF wants to trade him to Jacksonville, all he has to do to block the deal is have his agent say he refused to restructure. No team is taking on that contract without thinking he's the starter. So, Smith can play into where he goes.

Geno Smith and Mike Glennon have elite tools but aren't ready to play in 2014... agree. So we shouldn't draft them? You've got a 2013 mindset on how to build the team.
None considering San Francisco will release him prior to April 1 instead of paying him. Therefore, his current contract means nothing unless someone trades for him prior.

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02-15-2013, 01:37 PM
  #872
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Alright, I'll think like Alex Smith:

Where am I going to get a chance to play while making the most money?

Buffalo can certainly fit.
Smith in under contract. No team is shelling out $8.5M next season unless they're committed to him as their starter. Sound like Doug Marrone wants an open competition at the position.

It's not about how much money Smith makes in 2013. He's in for his current contract. It's where can he go and be successful enough to get his next contract. You think Smith would rather come to Buffalo over KC and Andy Reid? Really?

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02-15-2013, 01:38 PM
  #873
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None considering San Francisco will release him prior to April 1 instead of paying him. Therefore, his current contract means nothing unless someone trades for him prior.
It's a possibility.

If you're in to be successful and make money in the long run, do you go play for first time HC Doug Marrone? Or Andy Reid? Where do you think you'll be more successful?

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02-15-2013, 01:40 PM
  #874
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It's a possibility.

If you're in to be successful and make money in the long run, do you go play for first time HC Doug Marrone? Or Andy Reid? Where do you think you'll be more successful?
If Mario Williams will come here under Chan Gailey, they won't have an issue signing Alex Smith. It'll be about money and opportunity to play, just like it always is.

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02-15-2013, 02:27 PM
  #875
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If Mario Williams will come here under Chan Gailey, they won't have an issue signing Alex Smith. It'll be about money and opportunity to play, just like it always is.
Money? Agree. Opportunity? Nix wants to draft a long term QB in the draft before he leaves.

Here's another angle:

Smith sucked in SF before Harbaugh came on board. Harbaugh installed a West Coast offense with a power run game. He called more runs than passes his last two years, with lots of multiple tight end sets.

Marrone wants to install the Saints offense, which combines WCO and downfield passing in the Erhardt-Perkins style. It's a passing offense.

Smith's never had success in a passing offense, not even in college. Square peg, round hole?

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