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Old
02-14-2013, 03:26 PM
  #176
Troy McClure
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Ah, that helps.

Well, I hope we see him again this season. There is a bright future with him.

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02-14-2013, 03:27 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Who's to say that Gulutzan won't just play both Benn and Rome and still scratch Larsen?
That's exactly what would happen.

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02-14-2013, 03:31 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
No. He's playing on the first year of his contract this season regardless. He's a late birth so he doesn't get the full 2 years to delay a contract. His late birth also made him eligible to play in the AHL this season.
Oleksiak was drafted out of the NCAA not the CHL so he's been eligible to play in the AHL since he was drafted.

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02-14-2013, 03:52 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Fly Like a C5 View Post
Oleksiak was drafted out of the NCAA not the CHL so he's been eligible to play in the AHL since he was drafted.
That's true. Forgot that detail, but the contract part is accurate. Regardless of where he was drafted, he's playing out the first year of his contract right now.

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02-14-2013, 04:01 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
He really didn't look that good in his last two games. Sending him back so he knows what he needs to work on, can get 20+ minutes and doesn't feel like if he ****s up he'll be scratched isn't a terrible thing. Waiting 20 more games for him to really mature and allow Larsen to be in the lineup nightly is not a bad thing at all.
I agree. Also i think itll be better for him to be an important piece of a winning team. As the natural taught us, losing is a contagious disease. I don't want the crappy and stupid play of the rest of the NHL dmen rubbing off on Oleksiak.

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02-14-2013, 10:51 PM
  #181
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I don't know how anyone that's been *****ing about Larsen not playing see's Oleksiak going down as a bad thing.

I think the majority of us can agree that despite the occasional mistakes he might have made, Oleksiak in the Top 6 right now makes the team better. Developmental-wise, he's going to benefit greatly from playing 20+ minutes a night in every situation. Keeping him in the NHL right now to me is a sign they want to win at all costs. If anything, this move signifies at least in some instances they are going to thing first about the future rather than W's and L's to make a decision. I honestly think Oleksiak would have been fine in the NHL the rest of the year, but I also think he'll develop just as well being a #1 D on the best team in the AHL.

Furthermore, this is the opportunity most people have been screaming about for Larsen .... so be happy, and quit waiting to get exactly what you want. It's not going to happen, but this is about the best case scenario I can think of where Rome still remains in the Top 6 ... which is a goal Gulutzen seems committed to.

Everything Gully has said this year hasn't always added up, but he did say this about Larsen today:

Quote:
Hes a competitive kid, hes worked hard and hes played hard, so hes going to get an opportunity and were going to try to stabalize some pairs here, Gulutzan said.
The only thing I care about this year honestly is the young guys developing, and that happens with them playing games. This is the first time this year every prospect is in a position to do that. How long will that last is anyone's guess. They aren't going to just carry 6 D likely so there's a real possibility Jordie Benn returns. I'll worry about that when he's on the roster, and that hasn't happened yet. With a ton of home games coming up, that move could be delayed.

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02-14-2013, 10:53 PM
  #182
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Thank god.

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Old
02-14-2013, 11:58 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I don't know how anyone that's been *****ing about Larsen not playing see's Oleksiak going down as a bad thing.
?

Everything about this situation has been mishandled from my perspective.

First of all, I didn't think Oleksiak was ready to be called up. I thought the Stars were rushing him. Not anything egregious, but also not optimal.

But if you are going to bring him up, commit to him fully. He wasn't playing so poorly that his play demanded he be removed from the lineup. He was keeping his head above water. You'd rather see him playing better, sure, but for the time being he was doing OK. Now he's been sent down and left to think about what he did or didn't do wrong.

Both Larsen and Oleksiak should have been playing. One's development should not come at the cost of the other's.

I'm not going to celebrate the coach being forced to make the right decisions through attrition of options.

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02-15-2013, 12:22 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Everything Gully has said this year hasn't always added up, but he did say this about Larsen today
Almost everything he has said to the media this year, he's gone and done the complete opposite.

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02-15-2013, 01:58 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
?

Everything about this situation has been mishandled from my perspective.

First of all, I didn't think Oleksiak was ready to be called up. I thought the Stars were rushing him. Not anything egregious, but also not optimal.

But if you are going to bring him up, commit to him fully. He wasn't playing so poorly that his play demanded he be removed from the lineup. He was keeping his head above water. You'd rather see him playing better, sure, but for the time being he was doing OK. Now he's been sent down and left to think about what he did or didn't do wrong.

Both Larsen and Oleksiak should have been playing. One's development should not come at the cost of the other's.

I'm not going to celebrate the coach being forced to make the right decisions through attrition of options.
I don't know about Oleksiak not knowing what he did or didn't do wrong. A simple conversation from the coach saying "hey you did a good job, we aren't sending you down because you were playing badly, we just think it would be good for you to play more down there and get top minutes which will help you when you get back" would be fine.

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02-15-2013, 03:00 AM
  #186
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You guys are way overthinking this. It's all political. Jamie is the biggest guy on the team, and therefore the primary consumer of steak. If they send him down it just means more steak for everyone else. This is what happens when Brenden Morrow is your captain.

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02-15-2013, 08:44 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
I'm not going to celebrate the coach being forced to make the right decisions through attrition of options.
You're making a bold and likely false assumption here. Oleksiak wasn't demoted to force Gully to do anything. We have nothing to indicate that is the case.

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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I think the majority of us can agree that despite the occasional mistakes he might have made, Oleksiak in the Top 6 right now makes the team better. Developmental-wise, he's going to benefit greatly from playing 20+ minutes a night in every situation. Keeping him in the NHL right now to me is a sign they want to win at all costs. If anything, this move signifies at least in some instances they are going to thing first about the future rather than W's and L's to make a decision. I honestly think Oleksiak would have been fine in the NHL the rest of the year, but I also think he'll develop just as well being a #1 D on the best team in the AHL.
Bringing Oleksiak up was great for this team and for him. It let him see the differences between the AHL where he was playing well and the NHL. Without the real training camp and preseason, Oleksiak was not able to even get a taste of how much stronger and faster NHL players are. He came up and played a pretty limited role -- not a lot of minutes and no meaningful special teams play.

Now, Oleksiak has seen the NHL, and he has also seen that he can keep up. It should be a huge confidence boost. He will be able to go back to the AHL, play huge minutes, and play special teams minutes all while knowing that he has what it takes.

This call up had to accelerate his growth. If calling him up meant Larsen got scratched a few games, I'm entirely indifferent. Between the two, Oleksiak's development takes priority every time, but it was a short interruption for Larsen. Larsen will now get a bunch of playing time, and his development is no worse for wear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
The only thing I care about this year honestly is the young guys developing, and that happens with them playing games.
Not me. I'm tired of playing for two years from now. Not saying Cup or bust or anything like that, but I also don't want the team to give away games all to let some kids get extra playing time.

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02-15-2013, 09:29 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Not me. I'm tired of playing for two years from now. Not saying Cup or bust or anything like that, but I also don't want the team to give away games all to let some kids get extra playing time.
I think we might actually agree here. I didn't mean they have to be playing in the NHL. Like I've said before, I just want prospects in meaningful games somewhere.

With Larsen, likely because of his waiver status, that means the NHL. With the rest though, I'm not saying you have to flood the NHL team with prospects, but if they are in the NHL, they should never (or to be fair let's say rarely) should be getting scratched. If they aren't ready for full-time NHL duty, send 'em back down.

I'm not asking for them to give up on the season and look only toward the future. All I'm asking for is they try and make the best decisions for the prospects development rather have a win at all cost mentality, development be damned. That means playing IMO. I don't care how many times Gulutzan says it, I don't buy (and I don't think any reasonable person would either) that healthy scratches and watching games helps young players get better at hockey.

I'd love young guys getting bigger roles in Dallas because I do believe they could still win and possibly make the playoffs with them. That would obviously be my first wish, but I can live with them playing major minutes on a great AHL team too.

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02-15-2013, 09:34 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
?

Everything about this situation has been mishandled from my perspective.

First of all, I didn't think Oleksiak was ready to be called up. I thought the Stars were rushing him. Not anything egregious, but also not optimal.

But if you are going to bring him up, commit to him fully. He wasn't playing so poorly that his play demanded he be removed from the lineup. He was keeping his head above water. You'd rather see him playing better, sure, but for the time being he was doing OK. Now he's been sent down and left to think about what he did or didn't do wrong.

Both Larsen and Oleksiak should have been playing. One's development should not come at the cost of the other's.

I'm not going to celebrate the coach being forced to make the right decisions through attrition of options.
Apparently you aren't going to celebrate anything which is fine, but you're never going to get exactly what you want.

If you can't celebrate a good move even if it isn't your definition of perfection, you're always going to be disappointed and pissed off. That's not what am I'm looking for when I watch hockey.

I'm not going to argue what you're saying because I agree Larsen shouldn't have been the guy coming out for Oleksiak, but I am going to be happy when the situation has been corrected.

I don't have a crystal ball either, and even though this scenario does seem likely, I'm not going to get pissed off about Jordie Benn potentially pushing out Larsen until it happens.

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02-15-2013, 09:35 AM
  #190
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Young players need to play, but I'm not too worried about guys getting called up for a short stretch and mostly being scratched. Even if they don't play in a lot of games, there is some benefit to having them practice with the team, travel with the team, participate in the video review and game prep, and go through warmups with the team. Learning how to be a pro is part of player development.

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:20 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Not me. I'm tired of playing for two years from now. Not saying Cup or bust or anything like that, but I also don't want the team to give away games all to let some kids get extra playing time.
I don't see them as mutually exclusive. I don't care who plays in this lineup this isn't a playoff team because of the defense. So if the kids get more minutes and an opportunity to learn as they go great. I just don't think relying on the vets is going to be enough. You don't want to hear the refrain 2 more years, well at least this team has a direction now. The last four years have been flat out rudderless.

Quite frankly no one has called them out but Eriksson-Roy-Ryder has been a major disappointment. I'm ready for Ryder to go. He's made some nice plays but he's not the future of this club and a good return would be very helpful. It also makes way for Reilly or Fraser. I'm also still waiting for someone to convince me that Roy is a good long term option that Dallas should bank say 5 for $25 million on. That seems extremely risky and if there's any chance they can get O'Reilly for Larsen +Smith/Faska/Ritchie or whichever non Oleksiak/Nemeth prospect they want then fine.

Despite the goals he scored in Calgary Morrow is still a black hole offensively and passing to him means more offensive chances die than become good scoring opportunities.

Smith-Eakin-whoever

Have all struggled, which is part of player development and part just not getting the breaks yet. They're a decent line that's probably going to become a good line but not in the next 34 games.

Nystrom-Fiddler-Garbutt

Can't be your most consistent line, night in and night out, especially when you consider how bad the defense has played. Basically I just can't see the playoffs but do see another 9th-11th finish, missing out yet again on a top five pick and the playoffs. Anyone truly see it with this schedule remaining and how they've played so far?

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02-15-2013, 10:39 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post

Not me. I'm tired of playing for two years from now. Not saying Cup or bust or anything like that, but I also don't want the team to give away games all to let some kids get extra playing time.
This never actually happened.

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02-15-2013, 11:52 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I don't see them as mutually exclusive. I don't care who plays in this lineup this isn't a playoff team because of the defense. So if the kids get more minutes and an opportunity to learn as they go great. I just don't think relying on the vets is going to be enough. You don't want to hear the refrain 2 more years, well at least this team has a direction now. The last four years have been flat out rudderless.

Quite frankly no one has called them out but Eriksson-Roy-Ryder has been a major disappointment. I'm ready for Ryder to go. He's made some nice plays but he's not the future of this club and a good return would be very helpful. It also makes way for Reilly or Fraser. I'm also still waiting for someone to convince me that Roy is a good long term option that Dallas should bank say 5 for $25 million on. That seems extremely risky and if there's any chance they can get O'Reilly for Larsen +Smith/Faska/Ritchie or whichever non Oleksiak/Nemeth prospect they want then fine.

Despite the goals he scored in Calgary Morrow is still a black hole offensively and passing to him means more offensive chances die than become good scoring opportunities.

Smith-Eakin-whoever

Have all struggled, which is part of player development and part just not getting the breaks yet. They're a decent line that's probably going to become a good line but not in the next 34 games.

Nystrom-Fiddler-Garbutt

Can't be your most consistent line, night in and night out, especially when you consider how bad the defense has played. Basically I just can't see the playoffs but do see another 9th-11th finish, missing out yet again on a top five pick and the playoffs. Anyone truly see it with this schedule remaining and how they've played so far?
I agree with a whole damn lot in this post.

I'm going to say that right now Smith is holding Eakin back, and in a pretty damn big way. He does all of the little things right, and yeah everybody knows that. The kid hasn't done anything though other than making small, clean plays. Eakin steps up, creates his own chances, and is accountable in all three zones. Reilly needs to be sent down for Fraser. Eakin needs somebody who can finish what he creates. I think Fraser is at the point where he can do that now.

For the record, I'm not saying Smith sucks. He's a very impressive player. Is he NHL quality right now? Nope, his stats and on-ice performance show it clearly.


So I agree on trading anybody who isn't Oleksiak/Nemeth for some big help, but whats makes you confident in O'Reilly? I'd like to bring him in, but on a #1C role with Benn on the wing. Are you seeing him as a better #2 than Roy, or are you just unsure about Roy's health, etc...?

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02-15-2013, 12:14 PM
  #194
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I like Oleksiak, and I think that he would've been fine staying in Dallas for the rest of the season & his career. But I think that big picture, what the Stars did with him is correct.

My theory is this.. If you have top prospects that are working hard & playing well in the AHL, bring them up for a short stint to give them exposure to the NHL game, then send them back to work on things in the AHL.

Once they see the speed & strength of NHL'ers, the AHL game will seem easier for them to play and they should make bigger strides in their development than they would had they not gotten that little taste of the NHL.

I think that this approach should be used for pretty much all of the prospects and should be done regardless of where the NHL club is in the standings.

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02-15-2013, 12:21 PM
  #195
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I agree with a whole damn lot in this post.

I'm going to say that right now Smith is holding Eakin back, and in a pretty damn big way. He does all of the little things right, and yeah everybody knows that. The kid hasn't done anything though other than making small, clean plays. Eakin steps up, creates his own chances, and is accountable in all three zones. Reilly needs to be sent down for Fraser. Eakin needs somebody who can finish what he creates. I think Fraser is at the point where he can do that now.

For the record, I'm not saying Smith sucks. He's a very impressive player. Is he NHL quality right now? Nope, his stats and on-ice performance show it clearly.
I'm neither for or against sending Reilly down. I think he could probably do with a confidence boost of scoring and if he needs to go down to Austin to get that then so be it. I don't think sending him down now will do any real harm and by bringing up Fraser perhaps it will help both players. As long as he's playing I'm okay with it but his ice cold start should have some people at least a little worried.


Quote:
So I agree on trading anybody who isn't Oleksiak/Nemeth for some big help, but whats makes you confident in O'Reilly? I'd like to bring him in, but on a #1C role with Benn on the wing. Are you seeing him as a better #2 than Roy, or are you just unsure about Roy's health, etc...?
Benn isn't moving off center unless Eakin becomes a definite 2nd line center and either Roy or O'Reilly or someone else basically forces more minutes from the team. I just don't trust Roy. He's got this gimpy groin, has major injury histories in the past, isn't old, yet will turn 30 and is going to command probably more money than he's worth. If I'm going to pay someone I'd rather pay the kid with the higher upside and build this younger core than have to rely on Roy being everything they hope he can.

I also think given the right linemates, yes O'Reilly can be a better player than Roy in two or three seasons time. 20 year olds with 55+ points on their resume are way more valuable than a 29 year old who hasn't played more than 50 games in the last 2+ seasons. If O'Reilly is up for open bidding I don't think Dallas offers enough to make the deal but Colorado can't continue on this track and it never hurts to make an offer.

O'Reilly would be part of that young maturing core with quite frankly the best upside on this team outside of Oleksiak.

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02-15-2013, 12:50 PM
  #196
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o'reilly isn't very compelling to me. imo, last year represents a cap to his offensive abilities. he's like a (really) poor man's jordan staal (in pittsburgh). definitely prefer roy as an offensively gifted #2 center without being a defensive liability. if the stars make a move for o'reilly, i see him more as an eakin replacement, which wouldn't make sense considering they just traded a core piece for the guy. further, o'reilly will be expensive (both monetarily and player/pick assets), as he's trying to cash in on an anomalous career year.

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02-15-2013, 12:58 PM
  #197
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Typically you don't use the term "career year" for what someone does at age 20...

Also, I don't agree with the philosophy of purposefully dunking a prospect in the deep end to show them that they're NOT ready for the NHL. How about just calling them up when they are ready.

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02-15-2013, 01:11 PM
  #198
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That's a very odd interpretation of Oleksiak's time with the Stars.

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02-15-2013, 01:24 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Typically you don't use the term "career year" for what someone does at age 20...
in o'reilly's case, he's been in the nhl for 3 seasons... to me, JUST enough to merit that description... iirc, he's also consistently been #3 behind stastny/duchene the whole time...

between the managements in dallas, montreal, and colorado, the avs group have the most compelling reasons to remain firm on their side of the negotiations with their high-profile rfa. if i were an avs fan, i'd certainly want 'em to sell high on o'reilly and get as much return as possible. it's not like he's gonna surpass stastny/duchene any time soon... he's too good defensively.

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02-15-2013, 02:03 PM
  #200
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I mean... ROR was pretty clearly Colorado's #1 center last year.

ROR: 19:31
Stastny: 18:49
Duchene: 16:17

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