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What to do about the blueline?

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:13 AM
  #26
IHeartZherdev
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post

It's a likely strength. Let's take advantage in gameplay and leave the trade market to itself. Forwards are the fastest draft-to-productive-play asset anyways.
"advantage in gameplay?"

you do realize we were the worst team in the league last year and are currently the worst team in the league as of right now?

We have 0 advantages.

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02-15-2013, 10:15 AM
  #27
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I don't think you will ever see the pair moving as a unit. I suppose we can dream about it, but we aren't deep enough to consider it. I am not sure any of us are qualified to suggest what the other team would give up or what JK/JD would be interested it.

I would save give us time to get some history with these two before we really spend too much time considering it. We don't have enough history to make a reasonable hypothesis.
Fair enough.

Was just trying my hand at a little out of the box thinking.

OTT defensive problems at the moment just seem to present an opportunity.

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02-15-2013, 10:20 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
"advantage in gameplay?"

you do realize we were the worst team in the league last year and are currently the worst team in the league as of right now?

We have 0 advantages.
I'd say we have a top 10 defensive unit.

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02-15-2013, 10:21 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
Re-visiting my earlier question of trading the Tin/Tin pair...

What if you could pry Eberle and a pick out of EDM?

OR

Silfverberg ++ out of Ottawa?
Eberle and a pick? for Tyutin? are you mad? Ebs is adorable and I would murder to have him on the CBJ but it would take a kings ransom to get him, even under the 0% chance they would deal him.

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02-15-2013, 10:23 AM
  #30
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Regardless of what we do on the trade front, I would like to see the minutes spread out a bit more. Let's really see what we have with some of these guys, particularly Moore who has now been on the roster for some time.

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02-15-2013, 10:26 AM
  #31
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Regardless of what we do on the trade front, I would like to see the minutes spread out a bit more. Let's really see what we have with some of these guys, particularly Moore who has now been on the roster for some time.
Getting Moore over 15 minutes a game would be nice for starters.

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02-15-2013, 10:29 AM
  #32
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I'd say we have a top 10 defensive unit.
If we get Seth Jones and Ryan Murray we'll be way up there

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02-15-2013, 10:41 AM
  #33
CapnCornelius
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I'd say we have a top 10 defensive unit.
I'd say it is impossible to tell given (1) the overreliance on our top 4 defensemen and (2) the amount of time we spend in the defensive zone because our offense cannot sustain pressure.

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02-15-2013, 10:42 AM
  #34
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I say we ride it out this season and reassess in the offseason. Erixon and Goloubef are playing really well as a pair because of their familiarity in the AHL but how well were they play seperatly with different partners?

In a perfect world, Erixon and Goloubef could be a great pair for the next 10 years but lets ride it out this year.

I don't see Wiz or JMFJ going anywhere for a while.
Aucoin is off the books after this season.
Tyutin is signed for the next 5 years w/ modified NTC clause. I don't know if he will be moveable.
Nikitin is definitely tradeable based on performance here.
Savard is definitely gone in my mind. He doesn't seem to fit the mold of what JD and GMJK are wanting to build.
Anyone else is fair game for the right deal if they don't fit the master plan, including Murray and Moore, if they determine that they don't fit the mold and attitude wanted here.

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Old
02-15-2013, 11:02 AM
  #35
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I don't think there is anyone we have to trade, but I would trade a few in the Keep/Trade list if we could get a good deal.

Keep:

Jack Johnson
Fedor Tyutin
John Moore
Tim Erixon
Cody Goloubef

Keep/Trade:

Nikita Nikitin
David Savard
Nick Holden
James Wisniewski
Adrian Aucoin

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Old
02-15-2013, 01:20 PM
  #36
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
"advantage in gameplay?"

you do realize we were the worst team in the league last year and are currently the worst team in the league as of right now?

We have 0 advantages.
This is the kind of analysis I expect from folks who don't bother to watch games and would rather just point and laugh rather than actual fans who follow the team.

Teams do not magically become good by constantly shuffling and hoping you catch lightning in a bottle. That's the Doug MacLean way.

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Way too soon for that.
So very concur. Let the kids keep on keeping on. With regard to bottom-4 playing ability, "can" != "should" in this case.

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02-15-2013, 01:23 PM
  #37
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Only trade one of our defensemen if you have to.

"Have to" could refer to a deal you cannot refuse, if you are facing an immediate salary crisis, or if they have lost their spot due either to poor play or (hopefully) one of the young guys making them expendable.

Thus far none of those things have or are happening. If Moore were outplaying Tyutin and we are thinking "holy crap, we have to play Moore on the 2nd pairing BUT cannot afford to pay Tyutin that much to play on the bottom pairing" then you trade Tyutin. But not until then.

If guys like Moore, Savard, Erixon, Murray, and whoever else want to be consistent NHL defensemen, they have to beat out the already established guys there. If they can't beat out those players, they don't get the time.

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02-15-2013, 01:31 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
I don't think there is anyone we have to trade, but I would trade a few in the Keep/Trade list if we could get a good deal.

Keep:

Jack Johnson
Fedor Tyutin
John Moore
Tim Erixon
Cody Goloubef
Ryan Murray

Keep/Trade:

Nikita Nikitin
David Savard
Nick Holden
James Wisniewski
Adrian Aucoin
Fixed it!

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Old
02-15-2013, 01:33 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Only trade one of our defensemen if you have to.

"Have to" could refer to a deal you cannot refuse, if you are facing an immediate salary crisis, or if they have lost their spot due either to poor play or (hopefully) one of the young guys making them expendable.

Thus far none of those things have or are happening. If Moore were outplaying Tyutin and we are thinking "holy crap, we have to play Moore on the 2nd pairing BUT cannot afford to pay Tyutin that much to play on the bottom pairing" then you trade Tyutin. But not until then.

If guys like Moore, Savard, Erixon, Murray, and whoever else want to be consistent NHL defensemen, they have to beat out the already established guys there. If they can't beat out those players, they don't get the time.
I agree with this completely. CBJ isn't in a position of have to just yet. I would honestly like to get there but not due to salary reduction. The other reasons would be fine by me.

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Old
02-15-2013, 01:37 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
I don't think there is anyone we have to trade, but I would trade a few in the Keep/Trade list if we could get a good deal.

Keep:

Ryan Murray
Jack Johnson
Fedor Tyutin
John Moore
Tim Erixon
Cody Goloubef

Keep/Trade:

Nikita Nikitin
David Savard
Nick Holden
James Wisniewski
Adrian Aucoin
Agreed with addition to the "keep" list.
Also Golo and Savard are in the last year of their ELC. Next year the Jackets have to keep them on the roster or they gonna lose them on waivers. The only 3 players on the list who won't have to clear waivers to get sent down are Erixon, Moore and Murray, but all of them should be in the NHL due to the level of their play.
So the Jackets have to trade at least a couple of defensemen prior to the next season. I like Nikitin a lot, but he's UFA at the end of next year and I'm not sure if they plan to resign him. The Jackets just can't keep them all.


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02-15-2013, 01:39 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Only trade one of our defensemen if you have to.

"Have to" could refer to a deal you cannot refuse, if you are facing an immediate salary crisis, or if they have lost their spot due either to poor play or (hopefully) one of the young guys making them expendable.

Thus far none of those things have or are happening. If Moore were outplaying Tyutin and we are thinking "holy crap, we have to play Moore on the 2nd pairing BUT cannot afford to pay Tyutin that much to play on the bottom pairing" then you trade Tyutin. But not until then.

If guys like Moore, Savard, Erixon, Murray, and whoever else want to be consistent NHL defensemen, they have to beat out the already established guys there. If they can't beat out those players, they don't get the time.
You get a cookie.



(Sorry, out of chocolate chip at the moment.)

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02-15-2013, 01:48 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
You get a cookie.



(Sorry, out of chocolate chip at the moment.)

That cookie looks yummy.

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:36 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Only trade one of our defensemen if you have to.

"Have to" could refer to a deal you cannot refuse, if you are facing an immediate salary crisis, or if they have lost their spot due either to poor play or (hopefully) one of the young guys making them expendable.

Thus far none of those things have or are happening. If Moore were outplaying Tyutin and we are thinking "holy crap, we have to play Moore on the 2nd pairing BUT cannot afford to pay Tyutin that much to play on the bottom pairing" then you trade Tyutin. But not until then.

If guys like Moore, Savard, Erixon, Murray, and whoever else want to be consistent NHL defensemen, they have to beat out the already established guys there. If they can't beat out those players, they don't get the time.
Yep. If the cupboard was overstocked, that problem was alleviated when Methot was moved. I like what we have back there and I don't see the need to move anyone (top 4 + Moore that is).

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02-15-2013, 03:30 PM
  #44
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Thanks for all the responses and opinions so far. I think this may be somewhat of a moot point though. This is a rebuild and Davidson is likely going to follow a similar pattern to what he did with the blues, and step one in 2007 was to trade "core" players for assets and build from the ground floor. For everyone's edification at the deadline Davidson and Jarmo traded:

Keith Tkachuk for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd
Bill Guerin (the teams leading scorer) for a conditional first a winger and prospect
Dennis Wideman for Brad Boyes

I anticipate that this year (and hope for it frankly) that the front office will move guys like Umberger, Aucoin, and potentially even younger guys like Nikitin and Brassard for assets and will use these openings to get long looks at guys like Erixon, Johansen, and Atkinson.

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02-15-2013, 04:11 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by bizzz View Post
Agreed with addition to the "keep" list.
Also Golo and Savard are in the last year of their ELC. Next year the Jackets have to keep them on the roster or they gonna lose them on waivers. The only 3 players on the list who won't have to clear waivers to get sent down are Erixon, Moore and Murray, but all of them should be in the NHL due to the level of their play.
So the Jackets have to trade at least a couple of defensemen prior to the next season. I like Nikitin a lot, but he's UFA at the end of next year and I'm not sure if they plan to resign him. The Jackets just can't keep them all.
I don't see how you can determine that Murray's level of play qualifies him as NHL-caliber.

I was saying that we shouldn't bring Johan to the NHL in his last year of junior eligibility. I still don't think we should have. I also don't think Murray should be on the roster next year, especially since he's AHL eligible and recovering from a major surgery. Doesn't make sense to try and have him on the roster next year, anyway.

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02-15-2013, 04:16 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Only trade one of our defensemen if you have to.

"Have to" could refer to a deal you cannot refuse, if you are facing an immediate salary crisis, or if they have lost their spot due either to poor play or (hopefully) one of the young guys making them expendable.

Thus far none of those things have or are happening. If Moore were outplaying Tyutin and we are thinking "holy crap, we have to play Moore on the 2nd pairing BUT cannot afford to pay Tyutin that much to play on the bottom pairing" then you trade Tyutin. But not until then.

If guys like Moore, Savard, Erixon, Murray, and whoever else want to be consistent NHL defensemen, they have to beat out the already established guys there. If they can't beat out those players, they don't get the time.

Excellent post.

It's not unlike how we traded for Vermette when Mason played so well, because we had sixty-million injured goaltenders that year.

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Old
02-15-2013, 04:23 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Thanks for all the responses and opinions so far. I think this may be somewhat of a moot point though. This is a rebuild and Davidson is likely going to follow a similar pattern to what he did with the blues, and step one in 2007 was to trade "core" players for assets and build from the ground floor. For everyone's edification at the deadline Davidson and Jarmo traded:

Keith Tkachuk for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd
Bill Guerin (the teams leading scorer) for a conditional first a winger and prospect
Dennis Wideman for Brad Boyes

I anticipate that this year (and hope for it frankly) that the front office will move guys like Umberger, Aucoin, and potentially even younger guys like Nikitin and Brassard for assets and will use these openings to get long looks at guys like Erixon, Johansen, and Atkinson.
The Tkachuk deal isn't a good comp at all, simply because it was with Don Waddell and Atlanta. It was a great real-life example of the phrase "taking candy from a baby". That was the same year (one day after, for that matter) that Waddell traded Braydon Coburn for Alexei Zhitnik.

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02-15-2013, 04:29 PM
  #48
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The Tkachuk deal isn't a good comp at all, simply because it was with Don Waddell and Atlanta. It was a great real-life example of the phrase "taking candy from a baby". That was the same year (one day after, for that matter) that Waddell traded Braydon Coburn for Alexei Zhitnik.
Definitely agree on the return, but the trade still happened. Personally I think JD has taken a look at the organization and is treating it like rebuilding a house. He's taking the organization down to what he has determined is the foundation and is going to use all the excess to players to acquire prospects and draft assets for the rebuild.

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Old
02-15-2013, 04:33 PM
  #49
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I don't see how you can determine that Murray's level of play qualifies him as NHL-caliber.

I was saying that we shouldn't bring Johan to the NHL in his last year of junior eligibility. I still don't think we should have. I also don't think Murray should be on the roster next year, especially since he's AHL eligible and recovering from a major surgery. Doesn't make sense to try and have him on the roster next year, anyway.
There's a young guy playing on the top-4 and 1st PP unit for Boston, Dougie Hamilton. Last August I saw him and Ryan Murray playing for team Canada against Russia. Murray looked like a grown man, Dougie like a young strong fellow and the rest of Canadian defensemen looked like disorganized puppies. Murray also looked solid at the Worl Championship last spring.
If he's ready he has to be on the team cause he gonna be the cornerstone for this franchise. He was ready a year ago and I'm pretty sure he will be ready next fall. Comparing him to Johansen situation is like comparing grapes and oranges. RyJo was a late bloomer and Ryan Murray's future was predictable since he was 16.

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02-15-2013, 05:13 PM
  #50
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BTW in November 2012 someone made a poll on the mains. Murray vs. Hamilton. And Murray won it, even though he was already drafted by the Jackets and according to common belief was on the way to become a bust.
They're same age and Hamilton already playing a big role on the resent Cup champs. But the Jackets might send Murray to the AHL? If I'm Ryan Murray and I know I'm ready I would have been really pissed off.
And I'm pretty sure that SoreLoser, who watches a lot of WHL hockey, would agree with me.

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