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[PIT/WPG] Eric Tangradi for a 7th round pick in 2013

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:27 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
They also concluded guys like Strait and Letestu weren't needed and many Pens fans felt both were NHL caliber players. Both guys while not stars, are playing a helpful role for their respective teams are they not?

For Jets fans who want to know what went wrong...

When Strait went to the Isles, he essentially said he was only allowed ten minutes TOI and he would get benched for making a mistake. The same thing happened to Tangradi. Even the Pens fans who didn't like Tangradi couldn't explain why he wasn't getting regular fourth line minutes last season, when his play warranted it. DB essentially played vets like Park over him most of the season, because that is what he does.

Tangradi was NOT ready for top six duty and it was obvious, but he was still thrust into that role for a couple of games this season. Malkin pretty much ignored him and in those games, Tangradi only got six or seven shifts with Malkin and Neal.

His last game he was on the fourth line where he should have been all along, and he had a good game. However, DB benched him because they brought in Boychuk.

This is a guy who needs at least two years in the bottom six to adjust to the NHL. The Pens' brass tore down this guys game and tried to make him a PF and that was never his game. He just needs ice time and to be allowed to play his game, not be a robot.

It looks like your mgmt is going to open a spot for him, so I have a feeling at worst you will have a big, skilled third liner when it all plays out. If not, you didn't lose anything but a seventh round pick.
This. Best of luck to ET.

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02-15-2013, 03:41 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Do you consider Letestu or Strait signficant losses? For the most part - those guys are "nice" players, but not guys I worry about my team losing.

The issue of having guys who are afraid of making a mistake - that's obviously a coaching issue, but a part of that falls on the players as well with having confidence in their abilities. I just don't see it as a major issue when your team has a spare part that ends up being able to play on a really downtrodden franchise (I feel for the Isle fans). Not ripping on anyone, but there are players on the Islanders that I wouldn't want to be playing for my team. The fact that Strait is a big fish in a little pond doesn't mean that he would be playing the same way in PITT.
Its not so much that guys like Letestu, Strait, Tangradi and Lovejoy (and we can add Nick Johnson) are or were losses for the roster as is/was.

It is more a matter of it being lousy asset management and that hurts in so far as they are all NHL capable assets that we got a combined 4th, 5th and 7th round draft pick for.

The only negative impact Tangradi can possibly be said to have had, that occurred singularly when he was asked to do a hell of a lot more than he could be considered ready for - ie. playing top oppositions next to Malkin. We were 26-14-2 with Tangradi in the lineup in the regular season over the past three years and 3-0-0 in the playoffs. He did not hurt us at all, and with the potential he has, it should have been a no-brainer to prioritize developing him in the bottom 6 rather than play Richard Park (super redundant with the number of C's we had and only stalled Letestu/Jeffrey/Vitale) or the meaningless 4 minutes per night of a guy like MacIntyre.

Brian Strait was obviously better than Lovejoy last season also, and instead of having to waive him this season due to roster limits while getting a 5th for Lovejoy in order to not just waive him also, we should have dealt Lovejoy last season when it was obvious that we had internal replacements for him. He was never going to make an impact for us, and obviously as the Anaheim trade showed, a cheap, youngish guy who has proven himself a capable third pairing D-man in this league will always have trade value.

Letestu.... was a major hit when playing 3C for us and that line was not asked to go against top opposition but instead provide energy and secondary scoring. Imagine if we had dealt Staal for a top player to turn our top 6 complete while having Letestu (a great faceoff guy, good on the PP and fine defensively non-elite opposition) hold that third line? I like Sutter and the return for Staal in general, but I think we'd be better with one more great winger next to Crosby or Malkin and Letestu (or Jeffrey) playing 3C.

Nick Johnson, similar thing. Trade Kennedy who is a good player who has been stalling with us in latter years for a real return (or part of a package) and give Johnson the chance. He is easily a competent NHL 3rd-4th liner.

I know that NHL coaches will usually prefer the sure thing, but that is where the GM has to make decisions for the long term. Especially in a situation such as the Pens have had with extreme depth at C and in the D pipeline. When these young assets make roster players largely redundant, it is much better to get actual value for the roster player and let the young guys contribute at a fraction of the cap-hit, because before they prove themselves in the NHL, they have very little trade value.

Right now, when the Pens develop youngsters on the NHL team, it happens accidentally, and at the first sign of anything you can blame the rookies for, they ride the pine. Or get scratched when a vet is ready again, never mind the vets performance.

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Old
02-15-2013, 05:15 AM
  #203
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Wow. I thought Penguins fans overrated him like crazy, but I thought he would get more than a 7th round pick...

GMs seem to be hanging on to draft picks tight this year.

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02-15-2013, 05:50 AM
  #204
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I don't think Pens fans overrated him. He was just the only semblance of a winger prospect they had for the longest time so naturally he was going to be untouchable until he showed he wasn't the answer to their winger problems.

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02-15-2013, 08:01 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by rp2323 View Post
I remember the Marcus Naslund deal to Vancouver for Alex Stojanov? For the Jets sake... lets hope this is a similar trade!
Tangradi has talent and if he is brought along correctly, he could be a diamond in the rough. However, Naslund was already a productive player when he was traded, but the Nucks needed to be patient with him also and they were.

Naslund was on a team overloaded with talent and CP wanted to make the team tougher, so he made the move. He put up 50+ points playing third line minutes with the Pens, before he was traded.

It took Naslund until his third year in Vancouver before he eclipsed those totals again. He dropped down to 30 some points his second year in Vancouver and people started to question if the Pens talent made him look better than he was. Basically the Nucks were patient and it paid off huge for them.

Tangradi will never be anywhere close to an elite talent, but he can max out as a 20 goal, 30 assist guy. He isn't a natural goal scorer, so don't expect big totals there. He is more of a big bodied playmaker, but he wasn't allowed to play that game in Pgh. He was told to get to the net and be a straight line, gritty PF. That isn't his game and the Pens brass made a big mistake trying to force him to change his game.

Big body does not always equal PF.

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02-15-2013, 12:54 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Tangradi will never be anywhere close to an elite talent, but he can max out as a 20 goal, 30 assist guy. He isn't a natural goal scorer, so don't expect big totals there. He is more of a big bodied playmaker, but he wasn't allowed to play that game in Pgh. He was told to get to the net and be a straight line, gritty PF. That isn't his game and the Pens brass made a big mistake trying to force him to change his game.
This is the part that bothers me about the Pens' development. Why do they try to change how a player plays? It's one thing to make sure the player understands his defensive responsibilities, and understands the overall system the team plays. But to completely change a guy into something he might not even be comfortable playing? It just seems silly.

I hope to God they don't do the same thing with Beau Bennett. But it almost sounds like they're trying to, what with that comment either from a staff member or Bennett himself talking about learning to play a more North/South game.

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02-15-2013, 02:56 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
This is the part that bothers me about the Pens' development. Why do they try to change how a player plays? It's one thing to make sure the player understands his defensive responsibilities, and understands the overall system the team plays. But to completely change a guy into something he might not even be comfortable playing? It just seems silly.

I hope to God they don't do the same thing with Beau Bennett. But it almost sounds like they're trying to, what with that comment either from a staff member or Bennett himself talking about learning to play a more North/South game.
I think there is a certain amount of adjustment to one's game that needs to happen to be successful in the NHL. It explains why some players who are more skilled are in the minors while less skilled players, guys a lot of people would call "plugs", are in the NHL, because they know how to do the things you need to do to win.

Asking Bennett to learn to play a bit more of a North/South style game isn't necessarily changing a guy's style of play. They're trying to round him into a good player by adding complementary skills. In the NHL, you're not always going to be able to rely on skill alone. You may be asked to do things outside of your comfort zone sometimes, and you need to learn how to do that.

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02-15-2013, 04:07 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
I think there is a certain amount of adjustment to one's game that needs to happen to be successful in the NHL. It explains why some players who are more skilled are in the minors while less skilled players, guys a lot of people would call "plugs", are in the NHL, because they know how to do the things you need to do to win.

Asking Bennett to learn to play a bit more of a North/South style game isn't necessarily changing a guy's style of play. They're trying to round him into a good player by adding complementary skills. In the NHL, you're not always going to be able to rely on skill alone. You may be asked to do things outside of your comfort zone sometimes, and you need to learn how to do that.
To an extent. My point is they seem to be trying to outright change the way a guy plays, even if it's contrary to his natural game.

As I said, it's one thing if they wanted Tangradi to be a lot more responsible defensively, or even to emphasize that he needs to finish his checks each and every time. But it seemed they went above and beyond that, trying to turn him into something he's not.

I just don't want to see them stifle Bennett's creativity by insisting he play the exact same way that guys like Kunitz, Dupuis, Cooke, etc. play, and if he tries anything fancy or creative, he gets benched for the rest of the night.

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02-15-2013, 04:23 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by rp2323 View Post
I remember the Marcus Naslund deal to Vancouver for Alex Stojanov? For the Jets sake... lets hope this is a similar trade!
Lol.

Actually, Tangradi's got a lot in common with Stojanov (I'd argue Stojanov looked a Hell of a lot more natural in an NHL lineup than Tangradi...and was a way better fighter) now that you mention it.

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02-16-2013, 09:55 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Its not so much that guys like Letestu, Strait, Tangradi and Lovejoy (and we can add Nick Johnson) are or were losses for the roster as is/was.

It is more a matter of it being lousy asset management and that hurts in so far as they are all NHL capable assets that we got a combined 4th, 5th and 7th round draft pick for.

The only negative impact Tangradi can possibly be said to have had, that occurred singularly when he was asked to do a hell of a lot more than he could be considered ready for - ie. playing top oppositions next to Malkin. We were 26-14-2 with Tangradi in the lineup in the regular season over the past three years and 3-0-0 in the playoffs. He did not hurt us at all, and with the potential he has, it should have been a no-brainer to prioritize developing him in the bottom 6 rather than play Richard Park (super redundant with the number of C's we had and only stalled Letestu/Jeffrey/Vitale) or the meaningless 4 minutes per night of a guy like MacIntyre.

Brian Strait was obviously better than Lovejoy last season also, and instead of having to waive him this season due to roster limits while getting a 5th for Lovejoy in order to not just waive him also, we should have dealt Lovejoy last season when it was obvious that we had internal replacements for him. He was never going to make an impact for us, and obviously as the Anaheim trade showed, a cheap, youngish guy who has proven himself a capable third pairing D-man in this league will always have trade value.

Letestu.... was a major hit when playing 3C for us and that line was not asked to go against top opposition but instead provide energy and secondary scoring. Imagine if we had dealt Staal for a top player to turn our top 6 complete while having Letestu (a great faceoff guy, good on the PP and fine defensively non-elite opposition) hold that third line? I like Sutter and the return for Staal in general, but I think we'd be better with one more great winger next to Crosby or Malkin and Letestu (or Jeffrey) playing 3C.

Nick Johnson, similar thing. Trade Kennedy who is a good player who has been stalling with us in latter years for a real return (or part of a package) and give Johnson the chance. He is easily a competent NHL 3rd-4th liner.

I know that NHL coaches will usually prefer the sure thing, but that is where the GM has to make decisions for the long term. Especially in a situation such as the Pens have had with extreme depth at C and in the D pipeline. When these young assets make roster players largely redundant, it is much better to get actual value for the roster player and let the young guys contribute at a fraction of the cap-hit, because before they prove themselves in the NHL, they have very little trade value.

Right now, when the Pens develop youngsters on the NHL team, it happens accidentally, and at the first sign of anything you can blame the rookies for, they ride the pine. Or get scratched when a vet is ready again, never mind the vets performance.
Alot of truth to this. IMO, if Shero could have a do over, he would have kept Johnson over TK and Strait over Lovejoy at the time. Letestu didn't seem to fit with Pittsburgh. He would be a fourth line center for us right now. We got a fourth round pick for a fourth line center. Not a bad return. Pittsburgh is committed to having a strong 1C-2C-3C and its obvious with Shero demanding Sutter. Carolina wouldn't have parted with a good winger in that deal. Sutter became available because Staal was a center.

JMO, Tangradi wasn't going to succeed in Pittsburgh from a stats standpoint. From what I saw, he wasn't going to do anything with Malkin or Crosby and he isn't a third or fourth line guy in Pittsburgh. He will mesh better with Kane, Wheeler, Ladd and crew. They are talented and skilled, but not like Crosby or Malkin, but are obviously better than Kennedy, Glass or Adams. He didn't look out of place last night.

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02-16-2013, 12:22 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
Wow. I thought Penguins fans overrated him like crazy, but I thought he would get more than a 7th round pick...

GMs seem to be hanging on to draft picks tight this year.
They probably could have if they shopped him around. I think they just needed a roster spot in a hurry & didn't want to get nothing.

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02-16-2013, 12:57 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by WhatASaveDave View Post
what happened to this guy? Use to have so much value
Nah he was just another overrated prospect. He's never done anything impressive.

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