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02-15-2013, 03:22 PM
  #151
Laus723
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
I must say, Gudbranson is a bit of a wizard on the ice sometimes
Lmao, yes he is! Stupid phone...

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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Playoff's aside, Guds has been unremarkable since he's come back. Being fair to him, he had a long layoff. His play this season has been pretty ordinary. A few big hits, yes, but nothing notable.

Kulikov has all the tools and appear to be on his way to a top pairing d-man. I see him as a #1 d-man in a few years when he gets his shot under control and more confidence in his offensive game. He does everything but fight very well. His skating has improved and he can move the puck really well. He's been very physical this year too. Once he stops making so many dumb decisions he'll be outstanding. Just a learning curve thing for younger guys.

I don't see it Guds being a #1 d-man. I know he's still very young but I don't see a #1 in him. I see him as a GREAT guy to compliment a #1 d-man, though and a future captain. He reminds me of a guy like a Brent Seabrook with all the intangibles. Horrible to play against, the type of guy who is a rare find around the league but not super skilled. He does have an underrated shot.

Sorry for the long response, I'm bored.
I haven't seen the above, I've seen a continuation of the playoffs. I'd love to be wrong and he become what you say, but I don't see it right now. He's frustrating to watch most nights. However, he's only 22, but I just haven't seen improvement from year to year. Last night was the most physical I've seen him I'm some time on a continuous basis.

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02-15-2013, 03:23 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Playoff's aside, Guds has been unremarkable since he's come back. Being fair to him, he had a long layoff. His play this season has been pretty ordinary. A few big hits, yes, but nothing notable.

Kulikov has all the tools and appear to be on his way to a top pairing d-man. I see him as a #1 d-man in a few years when he gets his shot under control and more confidence in his offensive game. He does everything but fight very well. His skating has improved and he can move the puck really well. He's been very physical this year too. Once he stops making so many dumb decisions he'll be outstanding. Just a learning curve thing for younger guys.

I don't see it Guds being a #1 d-man. I know he's still very young but I don't see a #1 in him. I see him as a GREAT guy to compliment a #1 d-man, though and a future captain. He reminds me of a guy like a Brent Seabrook with all the intangibles. Horrible to play against, the type of guy who is a rare find around the league but not super skilled. He does have an underrated shot.

Sorry for the long response, I'm bored.
My view is Kulikov has all the abilities Campbell has and he will transition into a Campbell like player. You can glimpses of the similarities carrying the puck, the speed is gettng there along with the aggressive pinches Campbell does as well.

I see Guds as a younger version of Jovo when Jovo was a top D-man. Big, strong, physical D-man who can chip in once and a while. Again the glimpses of similarities are there.

Kuli and Soupy = Offesnsive D
Jovo and Guds = Defensive D

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02-15-2013, 03:27 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
Honestly neither am I. His offensive game is nowhere near where I expected it to be at this point.

But I don't think we can lose him solely on his skating. I've stated this in a couple of other threads. He is one of two strong skating defenseman we have back there. Too many of our guys are immobile or incredibly slow. We need 2 of those types of guys, not 4.

Losing Kuli would hurt us a lot in that department IMO, especially after trading the only other guy who was a decent skater (Ellerby).

Let's bring Bouwmeester back
Trading Ellerby tells the hockey world that Kuli isn't on the market, I'd guess. Ellerby was playing well enough and was a suitable replacement to Kuli, within reason.

I could see a Kuli for O'Reilly trade, but then we'd have to replace Kulikov. I could see Weiss then being traded, but who could a UFA on his final year being back?

Kuba and Weaver are far and away much worse, obviously.

This is a team still rebuilding. We're not they're yet, but we all want to be. Getting close fellas, trust Tallon.

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02-16-2013, 01:21 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Trading Ellerby tells the hockey world that Kuli isn't on the market, I'd guess. Ellerby was playing well enough and was a suitable replacement to Kuli, within reason.

I could see a Kuli for O'Reilly trade, but then we'd have to replace Kulikov. I could see Weiss then being traded, but who could a UFA on his final year being back?

Kuba and Weaver are far and away much worse, obviously.

This is a team still rebuilding. We're not they're yet, but we all want to be. Getting close fellas, trust Tallon.
I would like to see Weiss get dealt to the Avalanche for O'Reilly . I dont like the way he is playing right now..


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02-16-2013, 01:41 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Trading Ellerby tells the hockey world that Kuli isn't on the market, I'd guess. Ellerby was playing well enough and was a suitable replacement to Kuli, within reason.

I could see a Kuli for O'Reilly trade, but then we'd have to replace Kulikov. I could see Weiss then being traded, but who could a UFA on his final year being back?

Kuba and Weaver are far and away much worse, obviously.

This is a team still rebuilding. We're not they're yet, but we all want to be. Getting close fellas, trust Tallon.

Agreed I would like to see all these happen. Is it just me or has Kulikov's shot regressed. I know he doesn't hit the net but when he came in to the league his shot was a screamer it was Markov Souray caliber without the accuracy. Now it looks weak on top of being inaccurate. Like a lot of highly regarded defensive prospects, Kulikov lacks the cerebral part of his game to make him that #1 guy. Which is a shame as I was really high on him. He still as years to go of development but the brains are not there.


Last edited by IceManCat: 02-16-2013 at 01:41 PM. Reason: I just realized this was totally off topic
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02-16-2013, 01:43 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
My view is Kulikov has all the abilities Campbell has and he will transition into a Campbell like player. You can glimpses of the similarities carrying the puck, the speed is gettng there along with the aggressive pinches Campbell does as well.

I see Guds as a younger version of Jovo when Jovo was a top D-man. Big, strong, physical D-man who can chip in once and a while. Again the glimpses of similarities are there.

Kuli and Soupy = Offesnsive D
Jovo and Guds = Defensive D
Im sorry, but Kulikov does not have the hockey IQ it takes to be a top 2 defenseman in the league. He is way too prone to momentum killing turnovers, and his horrible shot almost takes away from his okay passing. I do not see him remaining this hyped in the league. Unless of course he somehow stops being dumb.

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02-16-2013, 01:55 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by DrMom9900 View Post
Im sorry, but Kulikov does not have the hockey IQ it takes to be a top 2 defenseman in the league. He is way too prone to momentum killing turnovers, and his horrible shot almost takes away from his okay passing. I do not see him remaining this hyped in the league. Unless of course he somehow stops being dumb.
Dude, he is 22 years old. Dmen take longer to develop than forwards, and unless they are talents like Doughty or Pietrangelo, they usually are more prone to mistakes. You dont give up on talent like Kulikov, unless its for a clear upgrade. Heck, in one year, Garrison went from not being able to hit the side of a barn, to a 10+ goal scorer.

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02-16-2013, 02:05 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by DrMom9900 View Post
Im sorry, but Kulikov does not have the hockey IQ it takes to be a top 2 defenseman in the league. He is way too prone to momentum killing turnovers, and his horrible shot almost takes away from his okay passing. I do not see him remaining this hyped in the league. Unless of course he somehow stops being dumb.
I never said Kuli would be a top 2 D-man in the league. I don't think Campbell is a top 2 in the league either. I don't fully understand if you more mean a top 2 on "our team" or actually in the entire "league". I love Campbell as a player, on this team and love what he can bring when he's performing at his best. Kuli is only 22, some players adjust at different levels and different speeds. I said he will transition into a Campbell like player meaning he is more offensive minded.

He will pinch when need be, can carry the puck through zones and i think he can chip in 30-40 points in years to come. Have a little faith in the guy. He makes mistakes, all players do. I'm sure he wants to be become a better player as everyone does on this team.

What does he have to do to impress you? If you're expecting a Erik Karlsson season from last year, I would lower expectations and let the guy develop his game a bit before writing him off as "dumb".

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02-16-2013, 02:20 PM
  #159
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Dude, he's been in the league for 4 years. Its unclear whether he has improved at all.

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02-16-2013, 03:47 PM
  #160
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Dude, he's been in the league for 4 years. Its unclear whether he has improved at all.
Kulikov has shown improvement year over year. He's definitely on track to become a very good d-man for a long time. He makes dumb decisions still but he's very young and his shot can be improved with practice. He's already a legitimate second pairing guy. He's going to be a stud. I would guarantee he becomes a legit first pairing d-man in the next few years. By 25/26 he's going to be great.

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02-16-2013, 03:57 PM
  #161
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Dude, he's been in the league for 4 years. Its unclear whether he has improved at all.
You cant be serious!?!?!

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02-16-2013, 05:32 PM
  #162
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Looks like Weiss has lost his heart or something.. I mistake him for Steeg often because of the constant floating.

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02-16-2013, 05:39 PM
  #163
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Our "1st line" is TERRIBLE and has been terrible since the first 30 games last year. Weiss has to be playing injured. It makes no sense otherwise.

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02-16-2013, 06:22 PM
  #164
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Our "1st line" is TERRIBLE and has been terrible since the first 30 games last year. Weiss has to be playing injured. It makes no sense otherwise.
I mean, usually players tend to have god years on contract years, but he's no where the level he can play at.

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02-16-2013, 06:23 PM
  #165
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To this day, I cannot think of Weiss as more than a 2nd line center, perhaps competing with Patrice Bergeron to be the best 2nd line center in the league. But thinking back to former years for the Panthers, I can remember Olli Jokinen playing with nobodies scoring far more easily than Weiss scores with solid wingers. I know Jokinen fell out of favor here and his career has been downhill since he slashed Zednik's throat. It's just a comparison of what was a top line center to a 2nd liner. Thankfully we have Huberdeau now, who hopefully will become our best top line center (if he doesn't stay at wing). Really though, I think Weiss has been misjudged and overrated in prior years. He has even said something in the media that makes him seem less than a top player, the thing about wishing the season only lasted 72 games. Again, Olli would play sick and injured if he had to. I would prefer Huberdeau ending up of the latter variety of player. Ultimately, I think Weiss's chance to be the top guy is up, so we either keep him as a solid 2-way 2nd line center or trade him for what we need.

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02-17-2013, 08:10 PM
  #166
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Weiss isn't worth a damn right now. Hopefully this doesn't keep pace with the trade deadline or it'll be the Bouwmeester situation all over again.

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02-22-2013, 06:09 AM
  #167
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I would love Weiss as a Sabre if he isn't a career Panther.

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02-22-2013, 06:45 AM
  #168
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My prediction: 6 months from now all of the people who used to be staunch Weiss defenders and complained when he didn't get the C will turn into Weiss-haters.

Disclaimer: I have never been a big fan of Stephen Weiss. Not his fault that the organization needed more from him than he was capable of, but he's not worth a big contract.

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02-22-2013, 09:01 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
My prediction: 6 months from now all of the people who used to be staunch Weiss defenders and complained when he didn't get the C will turn into Weiss-haters.

Disclaimer: I have never been a big fan of Stephen Weiss. Not his fault that the organization needed more from him than he was capable of, but he's not worth a big contract.
As meatloaf said, you took the words right out of my mouth....

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02-22-2013, 09:27 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
My prediction: 6 months from now all of the people who used to be staunch Weiss defenders and complained when he didn't get the C will turn into Weiss-haters.

Disclaimer: I have never been a big fan of Stephen Weiss. Not his fault that the organization needed more from him than he was capable of, but he's not worth a big contract.
You may not be a huge fan of him but you probably will still give him credit for his loyalty, consistent point production and two-way player mentality. Weiss could never reach the SUPERSTAR numbers in points but I still like and respect the guy, I'm a little bias though since he's from Toronto, Ontario.

Everyday we get closer to that trade deadline, I'm torn whether to just let him go get some new scenery or to possibly persuade him back for 2-3 years. We don't know what Weiss wants contract wise but it would be safe to assume he's in the range of a 4yr minimum at $4.5 to $6 million cap hit. I feel $5.5 million is breaking his ceiling limit for me. I'm just worried of another Bouwmeester type scenario and I don't think Tallon has made up his mind 100% yet. Remember Tallon respects guys like Weiss who want to be a Panther, I'm just unsure of whether Weiss is done being a Cat.

I'm still happy either way if Weiss stays or goes, he's been a Panther his whole NHL career and stuck with us through the worst playoff drought in league history. I just think it's a crappy situation for him playing through an injury on his contract year. If he doesn't reach 25-30pts which looks very unlucky right now, it's safe to assume his trade value to another team and also his re-sign value to stay here goes down.

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02-22-2013, 05:41 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
My prediction: 6 months from now all of the people who used to be staunch Weiss defenders and complained when he didn't get the C will turn into Weiss-haters.

Disclaimer: I have never been a big fan of Stephen Weiss. Not his fault that the organization needed more from him than he was capable of, but he's not worth a big contract.
Does anyone else find this to be some-what sad?? All these "Die-Hard" fans turn their backs on players they loved? We loved Bo,Horton,Booth,Weiss,Vokoun,
Versteeg and now it seems as though no one cares. Yes,I am not a fan of Bo or Horton,lazy players and bad situations but I love Weiss, and loved Vokoun and Booth. Weiss is a great player, no question. He isn't a superstar but he's great. There was a reason why the team sucked so badly when he wasn't in the lineup or playing injured. He's a great two way player,has tons of heart, and I believe we need to hold onto him. Same can be said about Steeg. He was playing injured and does try to be flashy at times but he too,is a great player.
I think now that we have some real talent and good depth, were getting too greedy. I wonder how many people who want Weiss and Steeg traded would be saying the same thing if we did end up traded them and became worse?

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02-22-2013, 06:14 PM
  #172
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Does anyone else find this to be some-what sad?? All these "Die-Hard" fans turn their backs on players they loved? We loved Bo,Horton,Booth,Weiss,Vokoun,
Versteeg and now it seems as though no one cares. Yes,I am not a fan of Bo or Horton,lazy players and bad situations but I love Weiss, and loved Vokoun and Booth. Weiss is a great player, no question. He isn't a superstar but he's great. There was a reason why the team sucked so badly when he wasn't in the lineup or playing injured. He's a great two way player,has tons of heart, and I believe we need to hold onto him. Same can be said about Steeg. He was playing injured and does try to be flashy at times but he too,is a great player.
I think now that we have some real talent and good depth, were getting too greedy. I wonder how many people who want Weiss and Steeg traded would be saying the same thing if we did end up traded them and became worse?
I never loved Weiss.

He's a good player, not a great one.

If you want to top off as a playoff team, then Weiss is a good long term solution at 2C. If you want to shoot for a cup, you won't win it paying Weiss $5M per to center the second line.

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02-22-2013, 10:25 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
I never loved Weiss.

He's a good player, not a great one.

If you want to top off as a playoff team, then Weiss is a good long term solution at 2C. If you want to shoot for a cup, you won't win it paying Weiss $5M per to center the second line.
I was merely speaking in general terms. I've seen a lot of fans posting on these boards over the years, and they seem to jump ship once a player slows down.

I love Weiss! I think he's great. When Weiss is on his game, we win games! As we can see, we're losing and one reason is because Weiss isn't 100%. In the past, when Weiss was out of the lineup, the team fell apart. While I am certainly open to improving our offense and gaining a true #1 center, I feel having someone like Weiss on our roster can only help this team succeed. While you may think the Panthers won't win a Cup paying Weiss $5 mil a year, I am sure there are fans of the other 29 other teams ,as well as management of those teams, who might disagree with you.
I am not comparing Weiss to Ovy,Crosby,Toews, or Stamkos, and you may not love Weiss but I think we can all agree that he is a great player who has done a lot of good things for this organization.

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02-22-2013, 10:44 PM
  #174
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I loved Weiss, Booth, and other players who've given their all every game.

Bouw, Olli, Horton, and guys who've given up or played like crap, nope. Wasnt a fan of Louie, either.

Some people love or loved these guys and people get popped for not liking em or coming down on em, I was aplenty.

Plenty have been down on Weiss long before this year. I'll always love him, but I'm me happy with his play. No one should be. 4 points so far.

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02-22-2013, 10:51 PM
  #175
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I will always like Weiss, but he's not a great player. He's a good player who's played like crap this year, for whatever reason.

Not only does he only have 4 points, but he has 17 shots in 13 games. I really can't recall a single scoring chance he's created recently. His last point was a play he really had nothing to do with. It was a weak shot that hit an opponent's skate and landed on Kopecky's stick. Kopecky's shot was great and Weiss got an assist out of it.

He's just been terrible. At everything. Hasn't even been good defensively, either.

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