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Old
02-15-2013, 03:06 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Other is a problematic top-3.

DD is only useful in the offensive zone against scrubs. That top-3 takes the best minutes away from the offensive superior plekanec and galchenyuk.

In contrast, Eller can start in the defensive zone against top scorers, which liberate the top-2 to score a lot of goals.
Please review and clarify. I really don't understand what you are talking about there.

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02-15-2013, 03:09 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
Trade DD instead wtf is wrong with this ****ing team sacrificing talent for politics

Honestly they should have dealt DD in the offseason like I suggested. Its embarassing how much a fan like me is right over the Habs management the last few years.

Keep Larsy!
Why does it have to be political?

If you're a GM in the nhl, would you have more interest in Eller and his size/skill/upside, or DD who is smaller/older and probably not getting any better than last year?

Its not nhl 13. The market for Eller should be more enticing. You won't get much for DD, so you are better off keeping him around until better options become available.

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02-15-2013, 03:10 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
Trade DD instead wtf is wrong with this ****ing team sacrificing talent for politics

Honestly they should have dealt DD in the offseason like I suggested. Its embarassing how much a fan like me is right over the Habs management the last few years.

Keep Larsy!
for what? a 2nd round? a prospect.

as the GM buyer, what will you pay to get him?

but I agree Keep Eller over DD

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02-15-2013, 03:10 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Eller need's to be centering DD I GUARANTE LE SUCCESS.

We all see what Eller can do individually now lets see it with someone who can help him cycle the puck.

I'd like someone like Cole or Armstrong with them...
Bourque-Plek-Gionta
Patches-Chucky-Gally
DD-Eller-Cole
Moen-White-Prust
Armstrong

In th best of both worlds you'd put a more defensively responsible winger with Eller like Moen/prust but I don't see Cole on the fourth line really...
Its true. Why is Therrien so set on using DD as a C. DD doesnt excel at anything as a centermen. This, although a small sample for those who disagree, is further proof that DD cannot produce unless his wingers do. Good job, good effort DD but its time he gets moved to the wing.

Pacioretty and Cole have been complete crap too dont get me wrong and IMO DD and Eller have looked better than both which is why I like your idea of Eller at C and DD on wing.

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02-15-2013, 03:10 PM
  #330
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I wouldn't touch ROR with a 10-foot pole. We won't give him the money he wants, it will just be a waste of time. Plus, if we did give ROR his $5m per season, Subban might have something to say about that. I don't want to be involved in that.

I'd rather keep Eller. He hasn't really been given a big enough chance to prove his worth and show what he can do. I think his 4 goal gave last season is just a glimpse of what he can become.

I say keep Eller, develop him and give him opportunities. We have invested too much in him to give up on him now. Look at the Halak trade. Think about it, after the way Halak played in the playoffs, we could have gotten anybody from St. Louis, and I mean anybode, heck, we could have gotten Pietrangelo (who was still a prospect then) and then some.

We should keep Eller. That's it. Plain and simple.
Wow! Do you think that St Louis Blues,one of the better teams in the NHL, got that way because they are poor evaluators of NHL talent? Halak for Pietrangelo??

Remember the Blues gave away Eller, a first round pick, probably because they saw him as expendable and saw that his up side was limited.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:12 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
Trade DD instead wtf is wrong with this ****ing team sacrificing talent for politics

Honestly they should have dealt DD in the offseason like I suggested. Its embarassing how much a fan like me is right over the Habs management the last few years.

Keep Larsy!
The very existence of its team was originally due to politics.
The history of this team is imbued with politics.
The popularity of this team and the commercial success is also directly linked to the identity politics.

You can't have your cake and eat it to.


And I don't like DD because he's Quebecois, I like him because he's a ****ing David playing in the playfield of Goliath; pulling it off. Because he's a hard worker with genuine hockey genius. Because he proves the impossible is possible just by his very presence and success in the NHL.

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02-15-2013, 03:12 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Problem is both Deharnais and Eller both have only half the skills a top 6 center needs. If we could combine Eller's size/speed with Desharnais' vision and playmaking we would have a bonfide top line center ... we could call him 'Ellernais' !
Umm no, just no.

You can't make an educated evaluation of the two being top 6 players when only 1 of the 2 have actually got the opportunity to demonstrate what he can do.

Its pretty hard for Eller to show his vision on the ice when he's playing with pylons don't you think? I guess the old adage of "surround him with better wingers" doesn't prove its worth when it comes to Eller.

Unless Eller is given a chance, stop saying he's not a top 6 because quiet frankly I don't know who you people watch when they are on the ice, but Eller shows he has the skill set to accomplish a lot, but again he's not given the opportunity.

He has 1 bad game at the start of the season, benched for 2, plays exceptionally well with anyone he's with.

DD has been useless for what 10 games now? Yet he still gets top line minutes + PP + no benching.

Do you think the problem is Eller's skill set or the way DD is treated?

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02-15-2013, 03:14 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
*Coughcubecough*
*CoughBornInNew York City, NY, United States*Cough

*snortKnowsAlotAboutWherePlayersComeFrom*

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:15 PM
  #334
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Eller plays 1 bad game -> sits for a few games - then we he comes back up he puts up points, yet remains in the 4th line.

Desharnais doesn't play ONE good game -> stays in the top 6, despite playing way worse than Eller.

Yes, this is pretty much politicial.

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02-15-2013, 03:15 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Wow! Do you think that St Louis Blues,one of the better teams in the NHL, got that way because they are poor evaluators of NHL talent? Halak for Pietrangelo??

Remember the Blues gave away Eller, a first round pick, probably because they saw him as expendable and saw that his up side was limited.
They needed a goalie. Look at what Varlamov got, how is that not similar to what we got for Halak?

St. Louis wanted to keep Eller but that was the only player Gauthier wanted, for better or worse.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:16 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Shooting % is a relatively meaningless statistic that balances out over time. The more important statistic is shot generation. Players that shoot very little tend to have higher shooting % over a short term, but in the end DD won't be close to 21%.

I don't know Ellers shots on goal vs DD,s but shooting% means squat and the shorter the sample the less reliable it becomes. They'll be within 2-4% of each other by the time year is up. Who shoots more will determine who scores more with Eller generating 2-1 on shots, if it continues he will most definitely have more goals.

It really helps if you have a basic understanding of statistics before attempting to analyze the data. It sounds like you don't.
Eller = 23 shots 1 goal.
DD = 13 shots 3 goals.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:17 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by kassian View Post
Eller plays 1 bad game -> sits for a few games - then we he comes back up he puts up points, yet remains in the 4th line.

Desharnais doesn't play ONE good game -> stays in the top 6, despite playing way worse than Eller.

Yes, this is pretty much politicial.
Gee. It's like the Sabres game never happened.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:20 PM
  #338
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The only thing I would consider trading Eller for is a guy like Roman Polak. A guy would is signed to a great long-term contract, plays Top-4 (well not so much this year because of who he's stuck behind), and is basically a mold of Josh Gorges.

I still don't really want to trade Eller until we try him or DD on the wing and try to get 3 lines clicking.

But Roman Polak is my price-tag.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:21 PM
  #339
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screw it, trade them both

Plek-ROR-Gally

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:23 PM
  #340
holyhabs87
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Wow! Do you think that St Louis Blues,one of the better teams in the NHL, got that way because they are poor evaluators of NHL talent? Halak for Pietrangelo??

Remember the Blues gave away Eller, a first round pick, probably because they saw him as expendable and saw that his up side was limited.
Its very well known that the Blues did not want to give up Eller. Its not their fault Eller plays with the Moen's and Armstrong's of the world.

Yes, I am sure the Blues 2 years after drafting Eller who was 20 saw that he was not going to be effective. Cmon man.

Although I do think Habs could have gotten more not because Eller wasn't good enough but because Halaks value was so high a smart GM would have exploited it. But that is another debate.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:24 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Gee. It's like the Sabres game never happened.
Okay, he played one, maybe two good games. My point is still valid.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:31 PM
  #342
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Watch it people... things are getting press close to infractions. Considering a few of you already have them, you may want to settle down a bit.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:32 PM
  #343
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Hmm, maybe he's drawing interest cuz he's awesome and we should keep him instead of making another boneheaded trade that will see Eller dominate the league in a few years on another team.

Don't trade him!!!!

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:34 PM
  #344
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Hmm, maybe he's drawing interest cuz he's awesome and we should keep him instead of making another boneheaded trade that will see Eller dominate the league in a few years on another team.

Don't trade him!!!!
I really doubt, were Eller to be traded, that we'd get anything but overpayment in return.

The point is; we are happy with him. He's doing great, and will step up to a better line when the opportunity will arise. He is in the plans of the organisation, AFAIK. We aren't trying to get rid of him.

Therefore, he will leave us only if our management evaluate that we get something great out of the trade.

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02-15-2013, 03:40 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
The very existence of its team was originally due to politics.
The history of this team is imbued with politics.
The popularity of this team and the commercial success is also directly linked to the identity politics.

You can't have your cake and eat it to.


And I don't like DD because he's Quebecois, I like him because he's a ****ing David playing in the playfield of Goliath; pulling it off. Because he's a hard worker with genuine hockey genius. Because he proves the impossible is possible just by his very presence and success in the NHL.
yes because he's the only midget in the NHL playing against giants :|. What genius has he been this year or are we referring to last year when he played extremely sheltered minutes and the focus of the ENTIRE team was on him for some idiotic reason.

He has had no success. Success is measure by winning. He has not won a damn thing.

He has do absolutely nothing in 10 of 12 games this year.
So explain to me and the others that disagree with trading Eller at all, why DD is getting MORE ice-time then other players that are doing MORE then he.

Please I want to know what the thinking behind playing someone who is a -6, and has done nothing for 10/12 games this year, who is abysmal at the faceoff, and can't play in his own zone.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:43 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I really doubt, were Eller to be traded, that we'd get anything but overpayment in return.

The point is; we are happy with him. He's doing great, and will step up to a better line when the opportunity will arise. He is in the plans of the organisation, AFAIK. We aren't trying to get rid of him.

Therefore, he will leave us only if our management evaluate that we get something great out of the trade.
I'm actually feeling a bit better towards is utilization. ATLEAST hes not in the stands and he gets some PK...
One day he'll be our second C.

We have a problem with quantity of poor quality player(Might be a hyperbole...)
We have so much middle-6 players that some other players will get less time and others more (such as in DD/Eller cases.)

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02-15-2013, 03:50 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
screw it, trade them both

Plek-ROR-Gally
This would actually be the best case scenario in my opinion.

Plekanec
O'Reilly
Galchenyuk

This would be perfect because as Plekanec's contract comes winding down, it allows Galchenyuk to develope and prepare for the number 1 role, O'Reilly is fine as number 2 and already produces at that level.

This opens the door say with a year or two left of Plekanec's contract to cash in on youth from say another cup contender looking to make a push. Say we get a big 3rd liner back along with other pieces. After Plekanec's tenure we would be set for years to come up the middle.

After:

Galchenyuk
O'Reilly
Bournival - Or piece gained from plekanec
White

Maybe a deal of:

Eller
Desharnais
Weber

For

O'Reilly
O'Byrne/ Wilson
Mid pick


Last edited by BigHabs: 02-15-2013 at 04:52 PM.
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Old
02-15-2013, 03:52 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I'm actually feeling a bit better towards is utilization. ATLEAST hes not in the stands and he gets some PK...
One day he'll be our second C.

We have a problem with quantity of poor quality player(Might be a hyperbole...)
We have so much middle-6 players that some other players will get less time and others more (such as in DD/Eller cases.)
It does seem as if Therrien is trying to find him more icetime. So I don't
expect he'll stay on the forth line, unless of course his play slips back again.

And I agree about middling players. Most of our forwards are 2nd or third
line types.

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02-15-2013, 03:52 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by Peso View Post
This would actually be the best case scenario in my opinion.

Plekanec
O'Reilly
Galchenyuk

This would be perfect because as Plekanec's contract comes winding down, it allows Galchenyuk to develope and prepare for the number 1 role, O'Reilly is fine as number 2 and already produces at that level.

This opens the door say with a year or two left of Plekanec's contract to cash in on youth from say another cup contender looking to make a push. Say we get a big 3rd liner back along with other pieces. After Plekanec's tenure we would be set for years to come up the middle.

After:

Galchenyuk
O'Reilly
???? - Piece gained from plekanec
White

Maybe a deal of:

Eller
Desharnais
Weber

For

O'Reilly
O'Byrne/ Wilson
Mid pick
Telling you now Habs get ROR and give him what he wants. Subban will not be back at the end of his deal.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:57 PM
  #350
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This is a place to discuss hockey, not race/language/culture politics.

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