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Old
02-14-2013, 09:57 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
We don't?

Backlund, Reinhart, even possibly Arnold.

We have plenty of guys who could eventually be a #2 centre for this team.
Dont forget Mitch Wahl and Greg Nemisz also...

O'reilly only had one good NHL season

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Old
02-14-2013, 10:43 PM
  #27
HighLifeMan
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I'm not sure it's O'Reilly's fault for the contract stall. The Avs aren't exactly spending to the cap and perhaps they low-balled the hell out of O'Reilly.

I think he should make 4 million - 4.25 million.

If he accepted that deal in principle I would low ball Avs because they have no leverage. And you know 29 other clubs are low balling them.
http://www.capgeek.com/player/1527

The precedent has been set. Matt Duchene has proven more at the NHL level, and has a larger upside. Giving out a larger, longer term deal to a lesser player would not be in the best interest of the team moving forward.

He is being selfish. He needs to accept a bridge deal to prove that he is worth the money he is demanding.

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02-14-2013, 11:05 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
http://www.capgeek.com/player/1527

The precedent has been set. Matt Duchene has proven more at the NHL level, and has a larger upside. Giving out a larger, longer term deal to a lesser player would not be in the best interest of the team moving forward.

He is being selfish. He needs to accept a bridge deal to prove that he is worth the money he is demanding.
He would most likely take that deal.

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Old
02-14-2013, 11:20 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
http://www.capgeek.com/player/1527

The precedent has been set. Matt Duchene has proven more at the NHL level, and has a larger upside. Giving out a larger, longer term deal to a lesser player would not be in the best interest of the team moving forward.

He is being selfish. He needs to accept a bridge deal to prove that he is worth the money he is demanding.
Just because Duchene accepted peanuts doesn't mean O'Reilly should. Let's be honest, Duchene could've gotten more and that contract might be one of the biggest steals in the NHL. In relative terms, it's peanuts.

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Old
02-14-2013, 11:39 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Just because Duchene accepted peanuts doesn't mean O'Reilly should. Let's be honest, Duchene could've gotten more and that contract might be one of the biggest steals in the NHL. In relative terms, it's peanuts.
Dmitri Kulikov, PK Subban, Michael Del Zotto and Tyler Ennis would disagree with that.

He is seeking Jamie Benn and Evander Kane money even though he does not have the pedigree or offensive upside of these young players.

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02-14-2013, 11:45 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Dmitri Kulikov, PK Subban, Michael Del Zotto and Tyler Ennis would disagree with that.

He is seeking Jamie Benn and Evander Kane money even though he does not have the pedigree or offensive upside of these young players.
Ennis is a steal and a half, you can't compare forwards to defensemen, also he isn't looking for Kane money he only wants 4.5-5 million if its a 1 year or 2 year deal, he wants 4 or less on a long term deal.

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02-14-2013, 11:52 PM
  #32
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Ennis is a steal and a half, you can't compare forwards to defensemen, also he isn't looking for Kane money he only wants 4.5-5 million if its a 1 year or 2 year deal, he wants 4 or less on a long term deal.
Why can't I compare third/fourth year RFA's to each other? The concept remains the same despite the position they play. They all took discounted 2 year contracts (bridge contracts) to prove that they are worthy of cashing in on a long term deal that is beneficial to both the team and the player.

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02-15-2013, 12:02 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Why can't I compare third/fourth year RFA's to each other? The concept remains the same despite the position they play. They all took discounted 2 year contracts (bridge contracts) to prove that they are worthy of cashing in on a long term deal that is beneficial to both the team and the player.
You can't compare a defenseman to a forward as their learning curves are different and roles are different.

Also for every Ennis there is a Skinner, for every Kulikov there is a Myers. Brassard makes over 3 million he is vastly overpaid ROR isn't asking for a 5 year 25 million contract he wants a 5 million 1 year deal to be paid for what he did the Avs would be stupid to not give it to him to finish this year.

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02-15-2013, 12:14 AM
  #34
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You can't compare a defenseman to a forward as their learning curves are different and roles are different.

Also for every Ennis there is a Skinner, for every Kulikov there is a Myers. ROR isn't asking for a 5 year 25 million contract he wants a 5 million 1 year deal to be paid for what he did the Avs would be stupid to not give it to him to finish this year.
I am not comparing the players, I am comparing their circumstances. Each and everyone of those players I listed are worth more then they are currently signed for. The concept of a bridge contract is to ensure that both the player and organization are confident in each others abilities moving forward.

Jeff Skinner has the same amount of points as O'Rielly after two NHL seasons. He is a far more prolific and proven talent. Tyler Myers also had three very good seasons before signing that contract, compared to O'Rielly's one. I also guarantee you that Buffalo is now kicking themselves for going that route with Myers as he is currently struggling, and has actually regressed since his rookie year. That is the risk you take on long term deals with relatively unproven players. Colorado has every right to not want to take that risk on a player that does NOT have elite upside.

ROR demands simply don't match what the market dictates his value to be. He has now sat out 1/4th of the season and has put his team in a significant hole. That alone tells me enough about this kids character. I would not want to take that risk either if I was in charge in Colorado.

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Old
02-15-2013, 12:15 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
He would most likely take that deal.
Who, O'Reilly? He's reportedly already turned down a two year, 7M deal and a five year, 17M deal.

His alleged demands are ~4M on a short term deal and ~5M on a long term deal. But, a lot of Ave fans are now believing O'Reilly just wants off the team period, for whatever reason.

Personally, I'm with Colorado's management on this one. O'Reilly's track record in no way warrants a long term deal at over 4M. It'd be in his best interests to sign a bridge contract, similar to that of Duchenes'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
You can't compare a defenseman to a forward as their learning curves are different and roles are different.

Also for every Ennis there is a Skinner, for every Kulikov there is a Myers. Brassard makes over 3 million he is vastly overpaid ROR isn't asking for a 5 year 25 million contract he wants a 5 million 1 year deal to be paid for what he did the Avs would be stupid to not give it to him to finish this year.
I haven't heard anything like that. But even then, Colorado would be nuts to offer a 1yr/5M deal because it would mean they would have to offer a qualifying offer for at least 4.5M the following season just to keep his rights, regardless of how he plays.

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02-15-2013, 11:34 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Who, O'Reilly? He's reportedly already turned down a two year, 7M deal and a five year, 17M deal.

His alleged demands are ~4M on a short term deal and ~5M on a long term deal. But, a lot of Ave fans are now believing O'Reilly just wants off the team period, for whatever reason.

Personally, I'm with Colorado's management on this one. O'Reilly's track record in no way warrants a long term deal at over 4M. It'd be in his best interests to sign a bridge contract, similar to that of Duchenes'.



I haven't heard anything like that. But even then, Colorado would be nuts to offer a 1yr/5M deal because it would mean they would have to offer a qualifying offer for at least 4.5M the following season just to keep his rights, regardless of how he plays.
Yes I don't think a big money short term deal is the right idea, but I would offer him 4 per year over 2 years without thinking twice.

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Old
02-15-2013, 05:54 PM
  #37
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Apparently TO is making a push for this kid.
It's not like Toronto has ever over paid for someone right?

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Old
02-15-2013, 05:59 PM
  #38
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Apparently TO is making a push for this kid.
It's not like Toronto has ever over paid for someone right?
Probably Gardiner + Bozak or something.

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Old
02-15-2013, 07:02 PM
  #39
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As A calgary fan I would offer:

2013 first
Matt Stajan
Tyler Wotherspoon

As long as O'reilly is signed to a longterm extension (5-7 years) at ~4.5 million.

I know some may not like the cost but in reality If I told you that we'd draft a Selke calibre 50-60 point center with a pick in the 7-20 range, you'd be nuts not to accept that. Then add 3 years of development to him and it's a home run.


Our top 9 next season becomes (If Iggy comes back):

Cammalleri - O'Reilly - Iginla
Cervenka - Tanguay - Hudler
Baertschi - Backlund - Glencross

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Old
02-15-2013, 07:42 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by superhakan View Post
As A calgary fan I would offer:

2013 first
Matt Stajan
Tyler Wotherspoon

As long as O'reilly is signed to a longterm extension (5-7 years) at ~4.5 million.

I know some may not like the cost but in reality If I told you that we'd draft a Selke calibre 50-60 point center with a pick in the 7-20 range, you'd be nuts not to accept that. Then add 3 years of development to him and it's a home run.


Our top 9 next season becomes (If Iggy comes back):

Cammalleri - O'Reilly - Iginla
Cervenka - Tanguay - Hudler
Baertschi - Backlund - Glencross
Nooooooooooooooooooo

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Old
02-15-2013, 08:09 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Miokid View Post
Nooooooooooooooooooo
We would be lucky to draft a player half as good as O'Reilly with our first round pick. Not to mention he is 22 years old

It wouldn't be like we are trading away a first for nothing. We'd be trading it for a young asset locked up through his prime at a reasonable price.

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Old
02-15-2013, 08:12 PM
  #42
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We would be lucky to draft a player half as good as O'Reilly with our first round pick. Not to mention he is 22 years old
Might also draft someone twice as good. Depending where the Flames pick...

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02-15-2013, 08:45 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by superhakan View Post
We would be lucky to draft a player half as good as O'Reilly with our first round pick. Not to mention he is 22 years old

It wouldn't be like we are trading away a first for nothing. We'd be trading it for a young asset locked up through his prime at a reasonable price.
Lol we might be picking top 5 this year.


Last edited by MarkGio: 02-15-2013 at 09:02 PM. Reason: Obviously he's not
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Old
02-15-2013, 08:51 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Lol we might be picking top 5 this year.

With ROR, the flames wont be picking top 5.

First round picks have a 30% success rate. The best drafting NHL teams average 2 NHLers per draft class.

If you feel like playing roulette with the clubs future, go ahead, enjoy your prospect porn. I'll take the 1st/2nd line C locked up for his entire prime at a reasonable deal.

FWIW Over the time period I was talking about the Flames have a 16% success rating in all rounds of the draft.

Meanwhile ROR had 55 points as a 20-21 year old while finishing 14th in Selke voting.


Last edited by superhakan: 02-15-2013 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Not necessary
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Old
02-16-2013, 01:21 AM
  #45
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LOL at people saying O'Reilly is overrated in this thread. The fact that the asking price is a top-6 and top prospect and teams are still interested tells you that the guy didn't fluke last season. If only intangibles were measurable with stats people would really know how good he is. Giordano would just be e starting point.

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Old
02-16-2013, 02:35 AM
  #46
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LOL at people saying O'Reilly is overrated in this thread. The fact that the asking price is a top-6 and top prospect and teams are still interested tells you that the guy didn't fluke last season. If only intangibles were measurable with stats people would really know how good he is. Giordano would just be e starting point.
The fact that is the asking price and he hasn't been dealt says teams are hesitant to pull the trigger on that deal. I wouldn't give anything more than Giordano for O'Reilly. Thinking he is worth more than that is ridiculous. He is at best going to be like Craig Conroy.

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02-16-2013, 12:26 PM
  #47
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The fact that is the asking price and he hasn't been dealt says teams are hesitant to pull the trigger on that deal. I wouldn't give anything more than Giordano for O'Reilly. Thinking he is worth more than that is ridiculous. He is at best going to be like Craig Conroy.
The avs have all the time in the world to make the trade they aren't in a rush. They're just creating a Bidding war between teams to see who will give the best offer. It might even drag into the summer. I wouldn't take anything less than a giordano and a top prospect

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02-16-2013, 12:30 PM
  #48
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I'm not sure it's O'Reilly's fault for the contract stall. The Avs aren't exactly spending to the cap and perhaps they low-balled the hell out of O'Reilly.

I think he should make 4 million - 4.25 million.

If he accepted that deal in principle I would low ball the Avs because they have no leverage. And you know 29 other clubs are low balling them.
O'Reilly got two offers:

7 million over 2, 3.5 average, same as Duchene
17 million over 5, 3.... whatever it is average. Turned down both. Is (reportedly) looking for 5 million.

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Old
02-16-2013, 12:58 PM
  #49
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The avs have all the time in the world to make the trade they aren't in a rush. They're just creating a Bidding war between teams to see who will give the best offer. It might even drag into the summer. I wouldn't take anything less than a giordano and a top prospect
You will never get a #2 defenseman and a top prospect for a player who has played 1 great season and his looking for a big pay day.

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Old
02-16-2013, 01:16 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by superhakan View Post
As A calgary fan I would offer:

2013 first
Matt Stajan
Tyler Wotherspoon

As long as O'reilly is signed to a longterm extension (5-7 years) at ~4.5 million.

I know some may not like the cost but in reality If I told you that we'd draft a Selke calibre 50-60 point center with a pick in the 7-20 range, you'd be nuts not to accept that. Then add 3 years of development to him and it's a home run.


Our top 9 next season becomes (If Iggy comes back):

Cammalleri - O'Reilly - Iginla
Cervenka - Tanguay - Hudler
Baertschi - Backlund - Glencross


But seriously no. I know O'Reilly great but theres no guarantee this guy gets us into the playoffs. Look at Toronto trading for Kessel, they thought their team was going to climb into the playoffs after that trade. Giving up our first is out of the quesition. ANY team not in the playoffs have a shot at first overall, not a chance I would give up the first.

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