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Old
02-15-2013, 06:25 PM
  #26
Hackett
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I think what the 09/10 team showed was that if you have strong special teams, good goaltending, good gap control, and the commitment of putting the team before yourself, then you will be hard to beat, no matter how big or small you are. You can say the same for the 10/11 team, actually.

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02-15-2013, 06:26 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charon View Post
Gallagher seems to skate well, but I don't know if it's because he's playing against lower pairing defenceman often or not.

Mind you, Gallagher's work ethic is top notch, I wouldn't want him out of the lineup right now. He's becoming one of my favourites very quickly!
Gallagher is definitely fast. There has been a few times now where he out skated the defender trying to pinch him on the boards.

Gallagher's size will never be an issue. Only to stupid hockey fans.

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Old
02-15-2013, 06:30 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
BPA Smallish Forwards
2003: 6'1"
2004: 6'2"
2005: 6'3"
2006: 6'4"
2007: 6'1"
2007: 6'2"
2009: 6'1"
2010: 6'7"
2011: 6'2"
2012: 6'2"
They sure are tiny. Good to see people sticking up for the team, not tearing it down at every loose seam.
go habs.

For the haters. loose with the team or win with team. They are still your team, or you wouldn't be here. So enjoy the ride with dignity, or go along with bitterness and negative vibes.

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02-15-2013, 07:38 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Habbybirthday View Post
They sure are tiny. Good to see people sticking up for the team, not tearing it down at every loose seam.
go habs.

For the haters. loose with the team or win with team. They are still your team, or you wouldn't be here. So enjoy the ride with dignity, or go along with bitterness and negative vibes.
I've been a Habs fan for a long long time.

Calling a strategy flawed does not make me a hater. Trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Go Habs Go

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Old
02-15-2013, 07:41 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Timmins BPA strategy over the last decade has resulted in what? No Cup.

Would it make sense to run a restaurant and continue to hire the best chef available while you do not hire any waitstaff? Absolutely not.

Sporting teams that are successful are that way because management uses the draft and trades to address Specific Needs of their team.

That is why we have an overabundance of small players right now. We were going after the BPA and it happened to be smallish forwards. Now, we are wondering why we do not have a team with big and talented skill players.

BPA is the rabbit hole that we went down and are now finding it very hard to get out of. BPA is also a strategy that now has 10 years of data to prove that it is an extremely flawed strategy.

Timmins needs to change his approach or be replaced with someone who has an idea on how to build a winning team based upon needs......both immediate and projected.
Agree. What is so good about Timmons?

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Old
02-15-2013, 07:41 PM
  #31
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Blaming Timmins is hilarious.

It's like someone coming out and saying Michael Jordan isn't great because he was a ball hog.

You lose all credibility immediately.
Yet no Cup during the Timmins era?

Michael Jordan won championships.

Trevor Timmins?

We are still probably 2-3 years away or even longer before we can compete for a Cup.

There comes a time when good needs to be replaced with great.

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Old
02-15-2013, 07:43 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Yet no Cup during the Timmins era?
No Cup from the Flyers either. You know, the LEGION OF DOOM? The team that loves big, brawling, brute forwards and defencemen? The team that drafted Giroux? The team that beat us twice in the playoffs?

You know, the team you wish the Canadiens were?

I can play this game alllllll day.

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Old
02-15-2013, 08:22 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Yet no Cup during the Timmins era?

Michael Jordan won championships.

Trevor Timmins?

We are still probably 2-3 years away or even longer before we can compete for a Cup.

There comes a time when good needs to be replaced with great.
Firstly, BPA is not a religious tenet. It is a guideline which every team uses. If BPA is a goalie and you have a top starter and great back-up, you clearly don't look there.

If you make a list of the Habs' core players, I believe you'll find they mostly were drafted. The reason there has not been a cup has more to do with other issues, especially that there are no other ways to obtain players. Someone really should invent a scenario where players could be traded, or maybe even sign with a team of choice as a free agent!

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:25 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Sorry man. Nice try. The playoff run that we had a few years ago still fell short (no pun intended).

The small players we have on this team are all skilled. The problem is that the NHL rewards teams who are big, physical and skilled.

Until we correct that problem, the Stanley Cup can only be a distant dream.
We got bullied in that series.

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:35 PM
  #35
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To the OP
You're absolutely right, so I'm willing to compromise.
If the Habs get rid of Desharnais I will no longer utter, whisper, type, sign or lip sync the words small or short when discussing anything habs related.
Deal?

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:40 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
To the OP
You're absolutely right, so I'm willing to compromise.
If the Habs get rid of Desharnais I will no longer utter, whisper, type, sign or lip sync the words small or short when discussing anything habs related.
Deal?
What if we trade him for Gerbe?

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:44 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
What if we trade him for Gerbe?
Only if we get 2 of them

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:50 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
No Cup from the Flyers either. You know, the LEGION OF DOOM? The team that loves big, brawling, brute forwards and defencemen? The team that drafted Giroux? The team that beat us twice in the playoffs?

You know, the team you wish the Canadiens were?

I can play this game alllllll day.
Look at the hockey sense in this guy. You and I are on the same page.
Our team is good right now. not great. maybe a little bit off being a cup contender. But big bodies do not create cups. And to base your hockey team's greatness on cup win's... is setting yourself up for failure. There are 32 competitive teams, only one wins.. once a year.. anybody who watches hockey knows that there is skill involved in winning, there is heart involved with winning, speed involved with winning, grit involved in winning, momentum involved in winning, LUCK involved with winning and also size involved with winning, among countless other factors.

What "no team needed" has said is true. If we switched out all of our undersize players for big bodied players.. It does not guarantee us a competitive hockey team. If we were flyers right now everyone on this forum would be sitting in there bathtubs with razor blades, drunk off molson dry beer wondering why all this big bodied team hasn't won us a cup.. whhyyyyy

Big isn't always better. it's the motion BAM in the ocean.

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
To the OP
You're absolutely right, so I'm willing to compromise.
If the Habs get rid of Desharnais I will no longer utter, whisper, type, sign or lip sync the words small or short when discussing anything habs related.
Deal?
I like that deal. I'm all for dumping Desharnais. So If they trade him.. I will remember this deal. And follow your every post like a teen girl on justin beiber.

And if they don't make it to the playoffs this year I will change my profile to "habs to be small" and make my avatar a picture of desharnais beside chara.

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02-15-2013, 10:02 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Habbybirthday View Post
I like that deal. I'm all for dumping Desharnais. So If they trade him.. I will remember this deal. And follow your every post like a teen girl on justin beiber.

And if they don't make it to the playoffs this year I will change my profile to "habs to be small" and make my avatar a picture of desharnais beside chara.
Can we just be friends and exchange occasional barbs while discussing the growing avg height of the canadiens roster?

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:03 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Yet no Cup during the Timmins era?

Michael Jordan won championships.

Trevor Timmins?

We are still probably 2-3 years away or even longer before we can compete for a Cup.

There comes a time when good needs to be replaced with great.
Come on man... there's no way you're actually being serious here.

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:12 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
Can we just be friends and exchange occasional barbs while discussing the growing avg height of the canadiens roster?
Yes. But can we also be mortal enemies born from the same mother only to be re-united by a stanley cup won by an average sized montreal canadiens team.

Besides I think Gionta is already shrinking from old age.

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02-15-2013, 10:40 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
No Cup from the Flyers either. You know, the LEGION OF DOOM? The team that loves big, brawling, brute forwards and defencemen? The team that drafted Giroux? The team that beat us twice in the playoffs?

You know, the team you wish the Canadiens were?

I can play this game alllllll day.
I hate the Flyers.

If you would stop projecting, you would come to understand what I am looking for in the Montreal Canadiens. And you will come to realize that I have seen the Cup won by the Habs on several occasions.

The Canadiens do not have to be like the Flyers. No, they simply need to go back to who we once were........the Montreal Canadiens, Stanley Cup Champions.

And once you stop projecting, you will understand that those teams were a mix of speed, talent and yes, toughness with players who fought and stood up for their teammates.

Not a game that I am playing. Just stating reality.

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:44 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Habbybirthday View Post
Look at the hockey sense in this guy. You and I are on the same page.
Our team is good right now. not great. maybe a little bit off being a cup contender. But big bodies do not create cups. And to base your hockey team's greatness on cup win's... is setting yourself up for failure. There are 32 competitive teams, only one wins.. once a year.. anybody who watches hockey knows that there is skill involved in winning, there is heart involved with winning, speed involved with winning, grit involved in winning, momentum involved in winning, LUCK involved with winning and also size involved with winning, among countless other factors.

What "no team needed" has said is true. If we switched out all of our undersize players for big bodied players.. It does not guarantee us a competitive hockey team. If we were flyers right now everyone on this forum would be sitting in there bathtubs with razor blades, drunk off molson dry beer wondering why all this big bodied team hasn't won us a cup.. whhyyyyy

Big isn't always better. it's the motion BAM in the ocean.
If that is not your standard for success, then why keep score in the games?

Give every player a nice little trophy that looks like a miniature Stanley Cup and everyone's self esteem will be improved. No winners, no losers.

Its too hard to win a Cup.

Why do you even watch sports?

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:52 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
If that is not your standard for success, then why keep score in the games?

Give every player a nice little trophy that looks like a miniature Stanley Cup and everyone's self esteem will be improved. No winners, no losers.

Its too hard to win a Cup.

Why do you even watch sports?
You're lucky to have seen the hab's win the cup. I heard them win a stanley cup from my bedroom when I was young. I'm mid twenties. So You've seen them win. maybe many times? Take what you've got man. I'm more optimistic than you and I havn't seen them win yet.
The cup is rare these day's good team or not.
When's the last time a three consecutive cup winning dynasty came along? Im too lazy right now to check. But the cup is harder too win now, big team or not. even the 93-94 cup was kind of flukey wouldn't you say.

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Old
02-15-2013, 11:00 PM
  #46
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I've lived through three dynasties so far: Canadiens, Islanders and Oilers.

I watched the Islanders out play every rough and tumble team in the NHL in the early 80s. They had what many of you would call soft as butter players. But these guys had skill that no third liner in the NHL could touch back in the day and they played like a unit. They supported each other but it wasn't from dropping gloves. They supported each other through goal scoring, defence and goaltending. That was the Islanders dynasty. It was a team working together as a team and it was a team with unrivalled skill until the Oilers got older.

The Oilers and Canadiens were similar to this. Those weren't the teams people were afraid to fight. Those were the teams people were afraid to play because they'd question their ability to play in the NHL. When you go to throw a high check on Gretzky and he's already skated by you, what does toughness give you? When Guy Lafleur just made you look silly in the D zone, why bother dropping the gloves? When you have to face Bossy, Trottier and Gillies and even then you got Butch Goring and Denis Potvin to deal with, it doesn't matter whose knee you try to take out. You're still getting eliminated from the playoffs.

That's why those teams won. That's why those teams were dynasties. That's why those teams were great. I'll take Goring and Bossy winning Lady Byngs over just about anyone playing the game today.

Done with this thread.

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02-15-2013, 11:02 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Habbybirthday View Post
You're lucky to have seen the hab's win the cup. I heard them win a stanley cup from my bedroom when I was young. I'm mid twenties. So You've seen them win. maybe many times? Take what you've got man. I'm more optimistic than you and I havn't seen them win yet.
The cup is rare these day's good team or not.
When's the last time a three consecutive cup winning dynasty came along? Im too lazy right now to check. But the cup is harder too win now, big team or not. even the 93-94 cup was kind of flukey wouldn't you say.
I am always optimistic. I am also a realist.

The way the Habs teams have been built (and managed) over the last decade lead me to lean more toward being a realist than an optimist. But in sports, anything is possible.

The Habs have had some good seasons over the last decade. Some fans are happy with that. I expect more. That's what happens since I have been a lifelong fan of the Habs, the Packers in the NFL and the Cardinals in the MLB.

Sucks for me since the Habs are the only team of that trio that has not won a championship lately.

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Old
02-15-2013, 11:10 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
I've lived through three dynasties so far: Canadiens, Islanders and Oilers.

I watched the Islanders out play every rough and tumble team in the NHL in the early 80s. They had what many of you would call soft as butter players. But these guys had skill that no third liner in the NHL could touch back in the day and they played like a unit. They supported each other but it wasn't from dropping gloves. They supported each other through goal scoring, defence and goaltending. That was the Islanders dynasty. It was a team working together as a team and it was a team with unrivalled skill until the Oilers got older.

The Oilers and Canadiens were similar to this. Those weren't the teams people were afraid to fight. Those were the teams people were afraid to play because they'd question their ability to play in the NHL. When you go to throw a high check on Gretzky and he's already skated by you, what does toughness give you? When Guy Lafleur just made you look silly in the D zone, why bother dropping the gloves? When you have to face Bossy, Trottier and Gillies and even then you got Butch Goring and Denis Potvin to deal with, it doesn't matter whose knee you try to take out. You're still getting eliminated from the playoffs.

That's why those teams won. That's why those teams were dynasties. That's why those teams were great. I'll take Goring and Bossy winning Lady Byngs over just about anyone playing the game today.

Done with this thread.
Yup, those teams were tough too. Guys like Gainey, Robinson, Trottier, Messier, Potvin and others were a huge part of those teams. They certainly weren't small and as talented as they were, they could play a strong physical game as well.

It's about balance and our club I think is too small and soft right now. There's just too many smurfs for us to win. Its fine to have a player like DD in your lineup. But when you combine him in your lineup with Gionta, Plecs and Gallagher you're just asking to be pushed around.

It would be one thing of those guys were elite talents that could each rack up 100 points but that's not the case. These are 50 point players who are small... It''s just not going to work. If we're serious about winning a cup, that needs to change.

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Old
02-15-2013, 11:16 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I am always optimistic. I am also a realist.

The way the Habs teams have been built (and managed) over the last decade lead me to lean more toward being a realist than an optimist. But in sports, anything is possible.

The Habs have had some good seasons over the last decade. Some fans are happy with that. I expect more. That's what happens since I have been a lifelong fan of the Habs, the Packers in the NFL and the Cardinals in the MLB.

Sucks for me since the Habs are the only team of that trio that has not won a championship lately.
Haha also a Packers fan here.
Agreed on some level? go habs?

Besides I'm from Canada and recently spent a month in the south.
I think the real thing we should be talking about here is Go Chicken 'n Dumplings, Country Fried Steak, Fried Okra with Ranch dressing, Turnip Greens with Malt Vinegar, Fried Catfish, Mac and Cheese, Cracker Barrel Restaurant.. I forgive you for not serving beer. The real argument for you and I is where is all that delicious **** here in Canada. Sorry for straying off hockey topic but ****, go there for the food, watch a habs game cheap and spacious like in floridas empty arena. And eat that food.

I told me hotel receptionist I just crunched some south at cracker barrel and she said "Awwwww you must be filllllledddd up" southern hospitality. sorry again for straying from hockey but you gotta try that food.

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02-15-2013, 11:26 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
I've lived through three dynasties so far: Canadiens, Islanders and Oilers.

I watched the Islanders out play every rough and tumble team in the NHL in the early 80s. They had what many of you would call soft as butter players. But these guys had skill that no third liner in the NHL could touch back in the day and they played like a unit. They supported each other but it wasn't from dropping gloves. They supported each other through goal scoring, defence and goaltending. That was the Islanders dynasty. It was a team working together as a team and it was a team with unrivalled skill until the Oilers got older.

The Oilers and Canadiens were similar to this. Those weren't the teams people were afraid to fight. Those were the teams people were afraid to play because they'd question their ability to play in the NHL. When you go to throw a high check on Gretzky and he's already skated by you, what does toughness give you? When Guy Lafleur just made you look silly in the D zone, why bother dropping the gloves? When you have to face Bossy, Trottier and Gillies and even then you got Butch Goring and Denis Potvin to deal with, it doesn't matter whose knee you try to take out. You're still getting eliminated from the playoffs.

That's why those teams won. That's why those teams were dynasties. That's why those teams were great. I'll take Goring and Bossy winning Lady Byngs over just about anyone playing the game today.

Done with this thread.
Now I know that you are not being serious. You dont remember Bob Nystrom and the Sutter brothers? Clark Gillies (6' 3", 215)? How about Gary Howatt in 1981, 19 points and 17 fights?

For the Oilers, Dave Semenko (6' 3", 200lbs), Kevin McClelland (6' 2", 205lbs), Don Jackson (6' 3", 210lbs), Jeff Beukeboom (6' 5" 230lbs), Marty McSorley (6' 1, 235lbs), Steve Smith (6' 4" 215lbs), Kelly Buchberger (6' 2", 210lbs) all protected Gretzky and the skill players.

The Oilers epitomized what I wish we had (like we had when we were winning Cups), skill and extreme grit and toughness.

Sorry man, your selective memory is far from reality.

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