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Do you fire Laviolette? (Philadelphia Daily News article dated March 12, 2013)

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02-15-2013, 09:42 PM
  #376
TheLegendkiller
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Lavy's ship has been on it's way down all day every day since around July 2010.

Why would it have started then? Right after the SCF he helped take them too. Are you blaming Lavy for Kane's goal?

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02-15-2013, 09:47 PM
  #377
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A whooping by the Habs tomorrow could be Lavy's last game. I hope they wait till offseason though and don't panic. Load up on picks and do a proper coaching recruitment.

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02-15-2013, 09:47 PM
  #378
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Why would it have started then? Right after the SCF he helped take them too. Are you blaming Lavy for Kane's goal?
No, I'm blaming Lavy for employing a system that doesn't win cups. Besides his aberration in Carolina, no team has won a cup before or after with that pond hockey BS. Haven't we seen enough already?

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02-15-2013, 09:57 PM
  #379
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gee look whos back. you bring your buddy JXC along with you?

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02-15-2013, 09:58 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
No, I'm blaming Lavy for employing a system that doesn't win cups. Besides his aberration in Carolina, no team has won a cup before or after with that pond hockey BS. Haven't we seen enough already?

Haven't we proved this "pond hockey" argument to bed? Yes we have. What made the Blackhawk's system any different? There's is based on a super similar style. It's not about "pond hockey" and it never was. It's about a system that this team isn't suited for anymore. That's it.

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02-15-2013, 09:58 PM
  #381
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Firing a coach in a shorten season makes little to no sense.

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02-15-2013, 10:05 PM
  #382
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if you fire Lavy now you are giving up on the season. Because then you are looking for a different system. You cant change the way this team plays with less then 30 games left in the season. Who coaches this team? Berube? Paddock? Please. If you want to fire Lavy now fine. But if you do then you might as well overhaul the roster is well because this team is not structered to play 1-0 or 2-1 games. the type of trapping hockey some want around here.

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02-15-2013, 10:19 PM
  #383
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We're going nowhere with or without Laviolette. May as well make some progress with the new guy in the meantime.

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02-15-2013, 10:30 PM
  #384
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what a disappointing team this is.. top to bottom.

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02-15-2013, 11:00 PM
  #385
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Just protect a 2 goal lead. The dmen are not good enough to make up for the forwards mistakes from being aggressive.

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02-16-2013, 12:38 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
Firing a coach in a shorten season makes little to no sense.
LA would beg to differ...heck even the Flyers when Lavi came in pretty late like Sutter on LA and we went to the Cup Finals.

I don't totally buy this belief that firing a coach in a shortened season is automatically going to lead to throwing in the towel.

Having said this....Flyers have just too many personnel holes and firing Lavi isn't going to do much...at least not this season..shortened or not.

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02-16-2013, 12:41 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
LA would beg to differ...heck even the Flyers when Lavi came in pretty late like Sutter on LA and we went to the Cup Finals.

I don't totally buy this belief that firing a coach in a shortened season is automatically going to lead to throwing in the towel.

Having said this....Flyers have just too many personnel holes and firing Lavi isn't going to do much...at least not this season..shortened or not.
LA also acquired Carter, which completely opened up their offense, so that example doesn't quite work...unless we also somehow make a trade, with our zero tradeable assets.

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02-16-2013, 12:43 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
LA also acquired Carter, which completely opened up their offense, so that example doesn't quite work...unless we also somehow make a trade, with our zero tradeable assets.
So Carter was the savior?

The overrating continues. Sure he was a catalyst but let's not go too far. Everybody picked it up once Sutter came in there in the second half and saved them from Vanilla Murray's stifling ways...

Having said this...Sutter is another short shelf lifer....but at least he got them a cup.

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02-16-2013, 12:46 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
So Carter was the savior?

The overrating continues. Sure he was a catalyst but let's not go too far. Everybody picked it up once Sutter came in there in the second half and saved them from Vanilla Murray's stifling ways...

Having said this...Sutter is another short shelf lifer....but at least he got them a cup.
Go ask any LA fan. That team was dead offensively until they traed for Carter. They were close to last in the league offensively before they got him, and I believe they led the league in offense afterwards.

Without supplementing the coaching change with a trade for Carter, they still miss the playoffs. Unfortunately, this team doesn't really have the assets to trade for someone like that and have it come off as a marked improvement.

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02-16-2013, 12:52 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Go ask any LA fan. That team was dead offensively until they traed for Carter. They were close to last in the league offensively before they got him, and I believe they led the league in offense afterwards.

Without supplementing the coaching change with a trade for Carter, they still miss the playoffs. Unfortunately, this team doesn't really have the assets to trade for someone like that and have it come off as a marked improvement.
No thanks....as I said I don't doubt that he helped with balancing out the lines etc but I still think you are putting too much emphasis on Carter..that's all. Don't want to minimize nor overstate. He was part of the resurgence but Sutter was also a big part..

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02-16-2013, 01:10 AM
  #391
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Doesn't hurt to have Quick standing in his head every night either.

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02-16-2013, 01:15 AM
  #392
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This is all on Homer. Lavy can only put on the ice the players that he has available. Too many holes that were not filled.

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02-16-2013, 01:22 AM
  #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
No thanks....as I said I don't doubt that he helped with balancing out the lines etc but I still think you are putting too much emphasis on Carter..that's all. Don't want to minimize nor overstate. He was part of the resurgence but Sutter was also a big part..
I think he was the final piece and they don't do it without him. I also think that team was amazingly lucky; they made it to the playoffs on a razors edge. One key player misses one or two games and they possibly don't even make it in; trading for Carter doesn't help them if Doughty misses two games and they lose because of it, for instance. I'm not trying to paint Carter as a savior here; I'm just pointing out it wasn't as simple as changing the coach...one more move was needed, and this team doesn't really have the luxury to make such moves.

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02-16-2013, 02:17 AM
  #394
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In the end it's another 2 points surrended, another night drifting away from the play-offs with a roster of ridiculous quality. We're not even difficult to beat, teams must walk away from the game each night amazed at how easy it is.
You mean that in a good or a bad way? I really can't tell. I think we have a roster that should be able to make the play-offs, but not much more than that. There aren't many teams with a less impressive first line, for example.

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02-16-2013, 02:26 AM
  #395
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Firing a coach in a shorten season makes little to no sense.
Why though?

Do you think the coaching change is just for this season?

If they're changing coaches, it's to make progress. When that occurs isn't really apparent, but the sooner the change is made, the sooner the progress can occur.

Why would they wait until the off-season to change coaches? So they can bring in new players into camp, AND a new coach, and be put into a transition state for the entire next season?

It actually makes a lot of sense to change coaches as quickly as possible, especially when it seems inevitable. On a personal level, I like Laviolette. From someone who watches a hell of a lot of hockey and studies coaching styles in team systems, what he's doing isn't working. The personnel argument doesn't work, either. A team that can get a lead should be able to hold a lead. A team shouldn't be scored on habitually in the first minute or few minutes of a game. These are recurring problems. This team has been known for mounting comebacks. That's cute and all, real inspiring, but it's a sign of unpreparedness, and it has never been addressed.

With that said, Homer is as much to blame as Laviolette, as is Snider. You can't just keep turning over players and expect consistent results, let alone progress. These players need time to develop and play together. When that happened, and they made a big splash for a big time performer, the team went to the Cup Final and was within 4 periods of bringing home a Cup. After that, ******** happened (teams don't trade away their captains, usually), and we changed our organizational philosophy back to "win now". "Win now", from the Flyers' standpoint, seems to be filling in apparent holes with hypothetical solutions. That doesn't cut it. Good teams develop from within. Teammates develop together. No one develops in isolation.

Personally, I'd like to see some kind of defensive coaching additions rather than the subtraction of Laviolette. No trades, nothing. Let them play it out. If they play defensive and fail, they fail, but at least we know who can cut it in which role and who can't. If Laviolette can't adjust his system and refuses, then he has to go, but I'd like to see something done to preserve his job because he's a hell of a motivator and I don't think he's lost their ear at all.

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02-16-2013, 03:02 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
No thanks....as I said I don't doubt that he helped with balancing out the lines etc but I still think you are putting too much emphasis on Carter..that's all. Don't want to minimize nor overstate. He was part of the resurgence but Sutter was also a big part..
Quote:
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Doesn't hurt to have Quick standing in his head every night either.
It didn't hurt the Kings, that in getting Carter, they were replacing Jack Johnson with a better player.


As for axing the coach, there isn't a better alternative. Of course he's going to get fired. Holmgren can't fire himself.

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02-16-2013, 03:24 AM
  #397
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i think when lavi reupped hsi contract holmgren tied thier fates. one doesnt go without th other

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02-16-2013, 06:47 AM
  #398
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This is all on Homer. Lavy can only put on the ice the players that he has available. Too many holes that were not filled.
thats bs. with their current roster there is no reason they should only have 13 pts 15 games into the season. sure they don't have a #1 d-man and thats a hole but the flyers didn't have one for years and they still made it work to an extent. we all know the teams on ice performance is not indicative of what they are capable of. heck we've seen them play great hockey for short periods of time. the fact that they keep making the same mistakes, can't hold a lead, can't manage to win a game when tied after two or even show up ready to play like ever is not the GMs fault.

and i would argue it does make sense to fire a coach in a shortened season IF you have the right person for the job lined-up. They could start putting things into place now to try and make a playoff push and if they fall short they'll just be that much more ready for the following season (in terms of knowing the system/playing style).

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02-16-2013, 06:58 AM
  #399
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My main problem with firing Lavy is who do you go and get? At the moment, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of decent coaches on the market. I think it would be a knee-jerk reaction to sack him after 15 games and could put the team even further back if the wrong man gets hired as his replacement

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02-16-2013, 07:42 AM
  #400
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The LAST thing this organization needs to do is become a trapping club. There's a way to play solid defense without having to rely on the trap. The trap is nothing more than an excuse for teams to fall on when they feel they don't have the personnel to run any sort of successful system. It's garbage hockey at it's finest.

In terms of firing Laviolette, they have to wait until the off season. There is just no one out there that's available who is better than Laviolette right now. If they're going to fire him, wait until the off season so that the new coach gets a chance to meet with all the players, discusses what his plans are, and then have a summer and training camp together trying to build the system.

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