HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Panthers “Club Red” Section is a Joke (MOD: Great perks, empty seats)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-15-2013, 10:43 PM
  #26
Tough Guy
Registered User
 
Tough Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Only for the start of each period.
If by "start" you really mean "first 10 minutes" of each period, then yeah.

I'll bet you a cool $100 that most of the "fans" in the lower bowl couldn't name 10 Leaf players if their lives depended on it. Every one of them could name each of the 17 different types of sushi sold in the platinum club though.

Tough Guy is offline  
Old
02-15-2013, 11:53 PM
  #27
dh2824
Registered User
 
dh2824's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Coral Springs,FL
Country: United States
Posts: 136
vCash: 500
As a Panthers STH. Club Red is a total joke. I hate looking at it. You see sections full until you hit those sections. You might bash this market which you can but, with success brings the fans in like last season. It has been six home games everyone needs to calm down.

dh2824 is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 12:17 AM
  #28
Northender
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Only for the start of each period.
And at the end of each period. And 1/2 way through the 3rd period they go home.

Northender is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:40 AM
  #29
awfulwaffle
Registered User
 
awfulwaffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Country: United States
Posts: 6,365
vCash: 500
From the article:

Quote:
A second reason that has been given is that apparently the corporate crowd who sits in these seats are all busy in the club 360 lounge instead of watching the play. Now, we’ve all seen this phenomena with scattered crowds in the platinum section of the ACC for Toronto Maple Leafs games. But let me tell you, that wasn’t what we had here. This wasn’t a scattered crowd. This wasn’t some of the seats being empty because people were in the restaurant/lounge. There were literally about a dozen fans, in sections that could seat 672 people (according to Puck Daddy’s August Article).

awfulwaffle is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:50 AM
  #30
StreetSharks
#19 Joe Trollton
 
StreetSharks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Frisco
Posts: 5,473
vCash: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Terrible market none the less...
I'm guessing you weren't born to see 96 panthers, the market works when good.

StreetSharks is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 02:54 AM
  #31
awfulwaffle
Registered User
 
awfulwaffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Country: United States
Posts: 6,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetSharks View Post
I'm guessing you weren't born to see 96 panthers, the market works when good.
Most markets do though no?

awfulwaffle is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 09:09 AM
  #32
syc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not Europe
Posts: 1,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetSharks View Post
I'm guessing you weren't born to see 96 panthers, the market works when good.
Everybody loves a winner....

That's why the NHL implemented the 3 point system. Makes teams records look better then they really are.

syc is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 10:55 AM
  #33
Undertakerqc
Registered User
 
Undertakerqc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetSharks View Post
I'm guessing you weren't born to see 96 panthers, the market works when good.
It was a ''flash in the pan''. But hey they still gotta team, maybe in 70 years they will sell out.

Undertakerqc is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 11:04 AM
  #34
AtlantaWhaler
Moderator
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
 
AtlantaWhaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 11,323
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
They tried making club seats/luxury boxes into prime seating areas. If you're a big wig fat cat, that's no bueno. There's too many of them, and as has been mentioned, those people are there just to screw around up at the personal bar.
Bingo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a big thing in Toronto too? I remember reading that there's a ton of big time corporate seats near the glass and they all either hang at the bars or don't show at all.

AtlantaWhaler is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:20 PM
  #35
Confucius
Registered User
 
Confucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swarez99 View Post
Add $21 bucks a game to the cost. Pay a seat filler $7/hour for the 3 hours and you're done.
Part of there job is wear team colours, and cheer. The owner comes back, they go to some back room and wait.
Buy 3 rows of seats and ring the entire arena. Nobody sits it the seats and some company places advertising on the backs of the empty seats. Team would probably need a national broadcast game to be worthwhile, but $100,000 For 1 hr of TV time on a national broadcast has to be a pretty good deal.


Last edited by Confucius: 02-16-2013 at 05:46 PM.
Confucius is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 02:01 PM
  #36
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 7,209
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
Most markets do though no?
And most markets don't work when teams are bad. See: Blackhawks, Chicago and Penguins, Pittsburgh

bluesfan94 is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #37
Hugh Mann*
Hey! Hey! You! You!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Westminster, BC
Country: Greenland
Posts: 17,514
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
Most markets do though no?
The problem with this logic is that nearly half the league doesn't do well any given year. A good healthy league needs franchises that can do reasonably well even when the team sucks provided they are well run. No matter how you fudge the numbers, the Panthers are an embarrassment and are not financially sound.

Hugh Mann* is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 03:32 PM
  #38
AtlantaWhaler
Moderator
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
 
AtlantaWhaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 11,323
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Mann View Post
No matter how you fudge the numbers, the Panthers are an embarrassment and are not financially sound.
Based on what?

AtlantaWhaler is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 11:54 PM
  #39
StreetSharks
#19 Joe Trollton
 
StreetSharks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Frisco
Posts: 5,473
vCash: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Mann View Post
The problem with this logic is that nearly half the league doesn't do well any given year. A good healthy league needs franchises that can do reasonably well even when the team sucks provided they are well run. No matter how you fudge the numbers, the Panthers are an embarrassment and are not financially sound.
This is virtually impossible, the only sport able to do this is the NFL because of the 1 game a week type schedule.

The MLB/NBA/NHL all have teams who are crappy struggle with bad attendance, MLB simply prevails because their stadiums are really huge.

StreetSharks is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 07:20 AM
  #40
Pantherfan12
Registered User
 
Pantherfan12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sunrise,Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 1,774
vCash: 500
We Panther fans feel the same way most do, it's ridiculous. I am a FORMER SSH for the Panthers,and after the way they treat their die-hard fans, this doesn't surprise me. They kicked out all the SSH in those sections for those seats, and those ticket holders didn't renew. It does make our arena look empty because of poor placement and the organization doesn't seem to care. Yormark is a joke! 22k for those seats, and no one is buying them.
Like I said, as a former SSH, this doesn't surprise me as they treated me like garbage, as well as many co-workers who were SSH and die-hard fans.

Pantherfan12 is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 07:20 AM
  #41
Disgruntled Goat
Registered User
 
Disgruntled Goat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Norfolk, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,013
vCash: 500
I'm a Ducks fan so let's get that out of the way first. I saw the highlights of the game last night. Looked really bad. I know they're sold, but man, couldn't they have found a better place to put it?

Disgruntled Goat is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 09:01 AM
  #42
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dh2824 View Post
As a Panthers STH. Club Red is a total joke. I hate looking at it. You see sections full until you hit those sections. You might bash this market which you can but, with success brings the fans in like last season. It has been six home games everyone needs to calm down.
How is HRR calculated on these seats? Can the panthers low ball the cost and the arena management rake it in hand over fist? Or is the cost simply the cost/events.

It's their choice, I don't see the position of the camera being a problem, the club red people can not go to their seats but switching the camera certainly makes it look better on tv

sandysan is online now  
Old
02-17-2013, 09:23 AM
  #43
jol
Registered User
 
jol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Miami Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,565
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
How is HRR calculated on these seats? Can the panthers low ball the cost and the arena management rake it in hand over fist? Or is the cost simply the cost/events.
They have two price structures, $9500 per seat for hockey and $16000 for all events, annually. So i guess $9500 goes towards hockey team.

JOL

jol is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 09:28 AM
  #44
jol
Registered User
 
jol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Miami Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,565
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
First the taxpayers of Miami get fleeced by the Marlins.

Then the taxpayers of Broward county gave the Panthers a few million $ more loan money to build the boondoggle that is Club Red.

Soon Miami Dade taxpayers will be paying for renovations for the Dolphins.
People keep wondering why billionaire owners cannot finance these renovations like Dolphins stadium (btw if will get new name again, Sunlife will pull out of USA market).
Miami Dolphins CEO Mike Dee during the television interview:
"I don’t know whether it’s just a further escalation of the contempt in which professional sports plutocrats hold the public, or if somebody secretly slipped sodium pentothal into his water. Either way, Miami Dolphins CEO Mike Dee really let the cat out of the bag Sunday when he was asked during a television interview if a proposed $199 million taxpayer subsidy for the Dolphins’ privately owned stadium isn’t just “welfare for billionaires.”
Just because somebody is wealthy enough doesn’t mean he should invest money in a way that is unwise,” Dee declared. He could hardly have been more straightforward: Unwise investments are strictly for the taxpaying saps. NFL and Major League Baseball owners certainly didn’t get to be billionaires by risking their own money on outlandishly expensive boondoggles. They use ours instead."

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/02/1...#storylink=cpy

JOL

jol is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 09:42 AM
  #45
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jol View Post
They have two price structures, $9500 per seat for hockey and $16000 for all events, annually. So i guess $9500 goes towards hockey team.

JOL
Where does the 22-25k ( ive heard) number come from? 9500 for hockey, that's what about 2x the premium over non club red sth?

If the people that buy the club red tickets plan not to sit there, then why not just have luxury boxes, and let the people who want to sit behind the benches fill those seats? Or at the very least move the camera to the same side. When they have on hockey events like concerts, are the club red seats still empty as the holders get their drink on ? Or is it only hockey?

sandysan is online now  
Old
02-17-2013, 09:46 AM
  #46
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by berklon View Post
The article explained it's NOT that reason.
And what was his source? Seeing it on TV, googling a Puck Daddy article from 3 years ago, and making blind guesses.

That, right there, is why good bloggers fight an uphill battle to gain respectability from professional journalists.




Hey look, 1 minute of invested time and I found an actual source from less than a month ago:

http://blogs.trb.com/sports/custom/b...nthers_ne.html

The section is nearly 70% sold. Meaning most of those empty seats ARE spoken for, regardless of where/whether the ticket holder chooses to watch the game.

Also, the seats are not available on a single-game basis. Imagine how the lower bowl would look in other arenas if there were no single game sales.

tarheelhockey is online now  
Old
02-17-2013, 01:57 PM
  #47
kdb209
Global Moderator
 
kdb209's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
How is HRR calculated on these seats? Can the panthers low ball the cost and the arena management rake it in hand over fist? Or is the cost simply the cost/events.
Club/Premium seats (which include all arena events) are treated just like Luxury Boxes - 65% of the total revenue is included in HRR.

If they include just hockey games - 100% of the revenue is included in HRR.

kdb209 is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:22 PM
  #48
htpwn
Registered User
 
htpwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Poland
Posts: 12,781
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by G Dawg View Post
If by "start" you really mean "first 10 minutes" of each period, then yeah.

I'll bet you a cool $100 that most of the "fans" in the lower bowl couldn't name 10 Leaf players if their lives depended on it. Every one of them could name each of the 17 different types of sushi sold in the platinum club though.
Start of first period, as in 2 or 3 minutes or until the first whistle.

While casual fans are no unusual sight at any NHL arena and many lower bowl seats are used to 'wine and dine' corporate clients, it is both silly and ignorant to assume the majority of folks do not know anything about the game or team. Most of the individuals in those seats are at the game because they want to be there, because they are hockey fans, because they are Leaf fans. Wearing a suit instead of a team sweater and not jumping up and down like a 5-year-old doesn't make many of them any less of a fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northender View Post
And at the end of each period. And 1/2 way through the 3rd period they go home.
3/4 of the way and only if the game is out of reach.

People have trains to catch and traffic to beat.

htpwn is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:31 PM
  #49
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Club/Premium seats (which include all arena events) are treated just like Luxury Boxes - 65% of the total revenue is included in HRR.

If they include just hockey games - 100% of the revenue is included in HRR.
So each one of those sold seats brings in about 10k to the bottom line ( 2/3 of the 16.5 or 100℅ of the 9500) times 600 seats ( assuming most are sold) that's 6 million in her about. Not too bad.

sandysan is online now  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:54 PM
  #50
19Yzerman19
Registered User
 
19Yzerman19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 1,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by syc View Post
Everybody loves a winner....

That's why the NHL implemented the 3 point system. Makes teams records look better then they really are.
and yet Quebec coming off their best season was sold and moved ... hmm

19Yzerman19 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.