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Patrik Elias, HOF?

View Poll Results: Patrik Elias, HHOF?
Yes 63 63.64%
No 36 36.36%
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-16-2013, 12:44 AM
  #26
Slick Eller
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
No. Just not quite there. Never really dominated or been considered one of the best. Consistently very good but not a true superstar or hall of famer in my opinion.
He was considerate the best LW in 2000-2001.

He was just behind Jagr and Sakic that year. He also had a strong 03-04 season where he was a top-10 forward in the game. So he was last season and in 08-09, even the 05-06 season shortened he was really dominant. He was also a PPG player in 99-00, dead puck era.

Plenty of good playoffs years.

You gotta take into consideration that playing in NJ for all those years, his numbers would have been better in other system.

Leading scorer of his team in NJ:

99-00 (72)
00-01 (96)
01-02 (61)
02-03 (57)
03-04 (81)
06-07 (69)
10-11 (62)

How many player in the league was 7x leading scorer of his team ? Plus he was 2nd last year to Kovalchuk by 5pts, and in 2005-2006, he would have score 95pts on a 82 games pace, ahead of Gomez and Gionta who both had over 80pts. Elias had 48pts in 35 games that year, plus 16pts in 9 games in the playoffs.


He is a HHOF imo, but underappreciated and overlooked around the league.

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02-16-2013, 12:49 AM
  #27
MessierII
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
Neither was Mike Gartner.
True with the way it goes these days he'll probably get in. I just don't think it should happen. Very good player just not elite in my mind.

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02-16-2013, 01:39 AM
  #28
Adam Larsson
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
True with the way it goes these days he'll probably get in. I just don't think it should happen. Very good player just not elite in my mind.
i wonder why you think that.

one of the best 2 way players of the last 30 years..his playoff production is elite.. and when all is said and done hell prob have over 400+ goals and 1100+ points...he should be in and he will get in.. maybe not right away but he will..


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-16-2013 at 12:21 PM. Reason: [/B][/QUOTE]
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02-16-2013, 01:48 AM
  #29
McTankel
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With the 2 lockouts and continued success for the next few years I think he makes it.

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02-16-2013, 02:42 AM
  #30
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I don't see him getting in.

Not sure if that is the right or wrong decision. The guy flew under the radar for basically all his career.

Offensively a tad below guy like Kariya but makes up for it with stellar overall play. He is also money in the play-offs.

Somehow i just feel that he is missing the "last gear" that the true super-stars who belong in the hall have.

I would not even think of it as a poor choice if he gets in, but i just don't see him getting there.

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02-16-2013, 04:40 AM
  #31
TheAngryHank
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Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Tough one. Really good player, but doesn't have star power. Hasn't ever been considered a candidate for a major award.
Name me one player that had "star" power that played for the Devils.

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02-16-2013, 07:37 AM
  #32
Yashintangibles
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Elias is aging pretty well, he could be good for 2 or 3 years again perhaps. I think one more Cup and he's a HOF lock.

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02-16-2013, 07:40 AM
  #33
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Name me one player that had "star" power that played for the Devils.
Not sure if serious.
Stevens, Brodeur, Niedermayer?

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02-16-2013, 08:24 AM
  #34
Zippy316
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Not sure if serious.
Stevens, Brodeur, Niedermayer?
Mogilny, Kovalchuk, Gilmour.

Should I keep going.

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02-16-2013, 08:53 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Mogilny, Kovalchuk, Gilmour.

Should I keep going.
Muller, Shanahan, Fetisov, Larionov, Stastny, Arnott, Nieuwendyk, Rafalski

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02-16-2013, 09:03 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TheAngryHank View Post
Name me one player that had "star" power that played for the Devils.
head scratcher of the day, never hear of brodeur? most put him in this category called best goaltender of all time.

that is just one, there is numerous others

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02-16-2013, 09:41 AM
  #37
NJ11
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Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
Funny, I was thinking of making this exact same thread last week

He should make it. He's been absolutely one of the best players of his generation. Unfortunately for him, he played during the "dead puck era" and on a team without a national following, and never managed to get one of the major awards.

National hockey media barely know who Elias is. He is almost never discussed by them, except for when the Devils are playing in a national game and he scores.

Hockey-reference does a great job adjusting point totals by era. By their measure, Elias is currently 99th all-time in Point Shares (which includes goalies and defensemen).

Since the Hockey Hall of Fame has 255 players currently, Elias would actually be in the elite wing of the HOF. Which is why it's so sad that he'll never make it.

Elias wasn't just a HOFer, but a top-shelf HOFer in terms of production. The discrepancy from his production to his perceived value is staggering. People have no idea how good this guy was.

10 years from now, people will look at his career totals (400 goals, 1000 points probably) and say he wasn't anything special. Nobody but Devils fans will remember him. When he really should be one of the iconic players of this entire era.
Excellent summary of a superb player. By the time this season is over - Elias should be 80+ something on the NHL All-Time Scoring List. And still going strong.

Clutch money player, just ask the Flyers what they think of Elias all these years. Tied for 2nd in OT goals scored. So many big plays in his career, including the assist to Arnott to win the Stanley Cup. Top notch on the penalty kill and the power play.

Invaluable to the Devils - losing Patty will be a huge blow to the organization when he retires - class act and great 2 way player who has been a model for how the Devils have successfully run their team.

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02-16-2013, 12:10 PM
  #38
BeastoftheEast85
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He definitely played better than many HoF, but the era he played in, lockouts, injuries because of lockouts, and playing for a defensive system did hurt him statically speaking; that's why people who haven't watched him think he belongs in the "hall of very good" like a Jason Arnott. Elias has been though the top forward on 2 Stanley cup teams and on the 2nd best team of the past decade and a half, one of the best 2 way players of his era, and an Olympic captain.

He should end up with similar statistics to Joe Nieuwendyk who benefited from playing in the late 80s and still made it into the HoF. So if things are fair he will get in.

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02-16-2013, 12:34 PM
  #39
Evincar
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Really tough. He deserves to make it in based on who's already in the HOF but that's not really a good reason.

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02-16-2013, 01:30 PM
  #40
Gord
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Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
Hall of very good - yes. Hall of fame - no.
exactly. but they are making the hall of fame a joke.
I'd not put him in but he'll probably get there.

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02-16-2013, 01:37 PM
  #41
Gord
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Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
Hockey-reference does a great job adjusting point totals by era. By their measure, Elias is currently 99th all-time in Point Shares (which includes goalies and defensemen).

Since the Hockey Hall of Fame has 255 players currently, Elias would actually be in the elite wing of the HOF. Which is why it's so sad that he'll never make it.
this is where you lose me. one shouldn't have to mention the "elite" wing of the HOF. by it's nature, the entire HHOF should be elite and it's sad how diluted the place has become. Elias has been an excellent player but to me he is not one of the best to ever play the game and I wouldn't vote for him.

I wish we could take players out of the hall of fame and make it an elite hall for the best of the best, and not just the "hall of very good players and/or those who have played a long time"

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02-16-2013, 01:42 PM
  #42
Adam Larsson
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Originally Posted by TheAngryHank View Post
Name me one player that had "star" power that played for the Devils.
Brodeur, Stevens and Niedermayer.

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02-16-2013, 02:17 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Tough one. Really good player, but doesn't have star power. Hasn't ever been considered a candidate for a major award.
I think you would be surprised on how many HHOF players don't have that 1 major award and it's much harder in a 30 team league now too.

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02-16-2013, 02:21 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by clarktard23 View Post
Brodeur, Stevens and Niedermayer.
1 G and 2 Dmen in a defensive team system, hardly surprising is it?

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02-16-2013, 02:25 PM
  #45
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Elias has been a dominant playoff performer in his career, here is how he stacks up against all other players from 97-12 (his career)

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

He is 4th in points, which is extremely impressive.

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02-16-2013, 02:36 PM
  #46
Hardyvan123
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
this is where you lose me. one shouldn't have to mention the "elite" wing of the HOF. by it's nature, the entire HHOF should be elite and it's sad how diluted the place has become. Elias has been an excellent player but to me he is not one of the best to ever play the game and I wouldn't vote for him.

I wish we could take players out of the hall of fame and make it an elite hall for the best of the best, and not just the "hall of very good players and/or those who have played a long time"
I understand your line of thinking but what is elite exactly, is it only scoring?

Winning? This is were the problems start.

Elias is the 4th most productive player post season in his career, pretty hard to not call that elite.

As for regular season this is how he ranks,

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...order_by=goals

15th in goals (is 6th behind 5 Canadians to compare to 06 guys)
11th in assists (7th behind 6 Canadians)
9th in points (5th behind 4 other Canadians)

Looks pretty elite to me when you add in his strong 2 way game.

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02-16-2013, 02:42 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Mogilny, Kovalchuk, Gilmour.

Should I keep going.
Mogilny and Gilmour were star players elsewhere not in NJ, not even close.

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02-16-2013, 03:21 PM
  #48
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Yes, I think he'll get there.

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02-16-2013, 03:25 PM
  #49
Yashintangibles
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Finally Patty getting some HF love ?



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02-16-2013, 03:28 PM
  #50
fly4apuckguy
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He's been a good player for a long time, had some great seasons, has won, but I don't see him in the HOF. He never had that stand-out individual performance that I think an HOFer needs.

Mind you, he's better than a few of the guys they put in there, so who knows.

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