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Old
02-14-2013, 02:41 PM
  #1
blueowl2
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Cam Ward

How about a little Thursday afternoon challenge if anyone is interested?

I was just wondering where Cam Ward's Game 7 performances rank among the elites of all time? He has been in 4, winning all of them. Took down Buffalo in the ECF then the Oilers in the SCF. Then in 09 against the Devils and Boston to get to the ECF.

He performed great in all those games so where does he stack up against Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Fuhr or even Osgood?

I know his save pct in those games combined are a .932%

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02-15-2013, 05:07 PM
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HisIceness
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I don't know where he ranks but I know this. That game 7 against Boston I remember at least 4 or 5 good chances very late in the 3rd period and in OT where he was almost standing on his head.

I really don't remember game 7's involving Roy, Brodeur or Hasek among others but I'm almost certain those teams had a better defense than Carolina did during those two runs.

Sometimes I think people don't realize/forget this, and just look at the regular season stats instead.

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02-15-2013, 08:19 PM
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GIN ANTONIC
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Yeah this is a tough question. Like HisIceness said, I don't remember the game 7s of those other goalies all that well. Suffice it to say, Cam has been a stud in game 7s but the teams around him have also been equally clutch. I think all of those games except for the game 7 of the SCF against EDM, the Canes were down to start the game and they made insane comebacks late int he game. Those were the days...

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02-15-2013, 08:34 PM
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ChuckW
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Cam's got to be in the top 5 all time in Game 7s. Maybe higher!

I'd have to watch more tape but I remember Roy absolutely standing on his head in Game 7 vs that powerful Devils team.

And Hasek had a Game 7 that matched Ward's...can't remember who they were playing.

But yes Ward has done it 4 times and is 4-0. Maybe the greatest game 7 goalie of all time so far.

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02-15-2013, 08:56 PM
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HisIceness
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Aside from game 7 of the '01 SCF's, the only other game 7 I can remember Roy being without looking it up was the Detroit game where he get chased (and the Hurricanes were waiting on the winner of that series). Although that disaster was not entirely his fault, Colorado gave up after the first goal.

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02-15-2013, 09:26 PM
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Joe McGrath
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I'm not sure it gets better than 4-0...,

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02-16-2013, 09:57 AM
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Just some quick research:

Brodeur - 6-4 in Game 7s, including a 3-0 shutout against Anaheim to win the Cup in 03. There was also the infamous "Matteau, Matteau" back in 94.

Roy - 6-7 in Game 7s. Was actually pretty average in this particular instance. Though I believe one year, Colorado set a record by having 4 straight series go to Game 7 (and 5 out of their previous 6).

Dryden - 3-0 in Game 7s.
Belfour - 4-1 in Game 7s.

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02-16-2013, 11:01 AM
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Having had season tickets in Edmonton during Fuhr's time, I always thought that he was over-rated. To me, Andy Moog was the better goaltender. I think Ward is better than both of them were. If Fuhr had played on a different team, he would have been average at best IMO.

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02-16-2013, 11:34 AM
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Lazyking
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Belfour was a beast.

My favorite goalie of all time is Hasek but I'm not sure on his 7 game history..

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02-16-2013, 02:16 PM
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Will he ever get help on defense is the question... and if he does will he be even better?

Sometimes I question his rebound control but I also wonder if that's a result of him trying to do it all on his own because he has NO help on the back end.

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02-17-2013, 10:16 AM
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snakepliskin
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if ward played for an original 6 team he would be cam GOD ward

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02-17-2013, 10:54 AM
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Sens1Canes2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakepliskin View Post
if ward played for an original 6 team he would be cam GOD ward
Disagree. Chicago won the Cup with a rookie goaltender, Niemi, then had no problem letting him go in the offseason. The fans understood that Niemi played well but was by no means a guy you HAD to hitch your wagon to going forward.

Same as in Boston. Thomas was still a solid goalie, a guy who won the Cup the year before, but again the team and fans had no problem with Raask taking over.

I find Ward's reputation in the eyes of Canes fans to be one of extremes. Either you cannot speak one bad word about him, or he's an overrated bum still riding his Cup coattails.

The truth, as per usual, lies somewhere in the middle. Cam Ward, IMO, plays behind a below-average defense and faces an inordinate number of shots compared to most elite goaltenders. He does let in a few more "soft" goals than other great goalies, so I must place him in a category below the best (Rinne, Lundquist, etc.). However, he's in that "next" category...which, considering there's 30 starting goalies in the league, is pretty darn good.

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02-17-2013, 12:07 PM
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The truth, as per usual, lies somewhere in the middle. Cam Ward, IMO, plays behind a below-average defense and faces an inordinate number of shots compared to most elite goaltenders. He does let in a few more "soft" goals than other great goalies, so I must place him in a category below the best (Rinne, Lundquist, etc.). However, he's in that "next" category...which, considering there's 30 starting goalies in the league, is pretty darn good.

agree with most of that-however he is still 4-0 in game 7's and at least 2 of those were road games maybe even 3 not sure-which would get him a bronze statue in toronto or montreal if he played there. here he gets a lot of "i can take him or leave him" remarks. what's his record against Brodeur and the devils in the playoffs?

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02-17-2013, 12:12 PM
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snakepliskin
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i would admit to not recognizing a lot of the current posters who may have been critical of ward who doesnt realize he has played behind a swiss cheese defense for the last few years. and may be posting while working on their geometry homework

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02-17-2013, 12:20 PM
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Lazyking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens1Canes2 View Post
Disagree. Chicago won the Cup with a rookie goaltender, Niemi, then had no problem letting him go in the offseason. The fans understood that Niemi played well but was by no means a guy you HAD to hitch your wagon to going forward.

Same as in Boston. Thomas was still a solid goalie, a guy who won the Cup the year before, but again the team and fans had no problem with Raask taking over.

I find Ward's reputation in the eyes of Canes fans to be one of extremes. Either you cannot speak one bad word about him, or he's an overrated bum still riding his Cup coattails.

The truth, as per usual, lies somewhere in the middle. Cam Ward, IMO, plays behind a below-average defense and faces an inordinate number of shots compared to most elite goaltenders. He does let in a few more "soft" goals than other great goalies, so I must place him in a category below the best (Rinne, Lundquist, etc.). However, he's in that "next" category...which, considering there's 30 starting goalies in the league, is pretty darn good.
Other teams can afford to not have a great goalie or should I say, a mainstay at the position because they pay for everything else (The Bruins) or don't worry about shutting teams down when they can outscore them (the Blackhawks )

Not to mention, they had guys that were competent enough to take over... The Canes have not had another goalie in the system that could take over for Cam for the next 5 years.

I'm not even defending Cam really, he's not a top 5 regular season goalie but our situation is different then most.

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02-17-2013, 01:26 PM
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impeach estaalo
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On a related note, what's Cam's record in Game 82s to decide a playoff spot?

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02-17-2013, 02:01 PM
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Judging goalies is so hard, because statistics reflect systems almost as much as they reflect the goaltender.

You play in the right division, you end up with a lot of games that have two teams playing defensive hockey trying to win the game 2-1 in the shootout.

What I like about Cam Ward, is his ability to make really difficult saves. In the playoffs, you only have to be the best goalie 4 out of the 7 games. So I think you prefer the guy who is better at their best rather than steady with a lower ceiling.

In the regular season, I think those steady guys who don't let up the softies, and just make the other team beat them, are probably better.

The overall moral of the story is that your stats in Nashville/Minnesota don't mean a thing once you get signed by Tampa Bay. You're barely playing the same game. So judging goalies is almost always an apples and oranges situation.

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02-17-2013, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakepliskin View Post
i would admit to not recognizing a lot of the current posters who may have been critical of ward who doesnt realize he has played behind a swiss cheese defense for the last few years. and may be posting while working on their geometry homework
I don't think the condescending attitude boosts your argument very much. Insulting younger fans seems sort of classless.

Not that I'm one of them, I'm pushing 40.

That having been said, I'd put Ward in the first tier. Yes I do think he's elite. Why? Because his playoff record against the elite (Brodeur, Miller, etc) is fantastic.

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02-17-2013, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
On a related note, what's Cam's record in Game 82s to decide a playoff spot?
lol, never thought about this one

0-2?

The reasons to temper that stat are the same reasons to temper his playoff stats. It takes a team. There are magical goalie performances out there that still ended up in a lost series.

That said, he was clearly an integral part of the '06 playoffs.

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02-17-2013, 03:01 PM
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Sens1Canes2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post

That having been said, I'd put Ward in the first tier. Yes I do think he's elite. Why? Because his playoff record against the elite (Brodeur, Miller, etc) is fantastic.
When you play very average in the regular season and thus do not make the playoffs, it kinda takes the lustre off of the playoff shine.

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02-17-2013, 03:04 PM
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blueowl2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Just some quick research:

Brodeur - 6-4 in Game 7s, including a 3-0 shutout against Anaheim to win the Cup in 03. There was also the infamous "Matteau, Matteau" back in 94.

Roy - 6-7 in Game 7s. Was actually pretty average in this particular instance. Though I believe one year, Colorado set a record by having 4 straight series go to Game 7 (and 5 out of their previous 6).

Dryden - 3-0 in Game 7s.
Belfour - 4-1 in Game 7s.
great stats...yea i always think of Belfour when i think of clutch. i always hated when Colorado would play Dallas.

Roy in game 7 against Detroit and against Minnesota (In the first round) were my two biggest heart breaks as a hockey fan. The third being when Carolina lost to Detroit.

Currently Ward is my favorite goaltender and I can honestly say I watch a lot of his games...especially playoff games. He is incredible when the game is on the line.

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02-17-2013, 03:05 PM
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wallym
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I don't know how often others read the opposing teams gdt's, but one thing you don't see much of is "Oh good, Cam Ward's in net. He's average."

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02-17-2013, 03:06 PM
  #23
ChuckW
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Originally Posted by wallym View Post
I don't know how often others read the opposing teams gdt's, but one thing you don't see much of is "Oh good, Cam Ward's in net. He's average."
Good point.

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02-17-2013, 03:07 PM
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DaveG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens1Canes2 View Post
When you play very average in the regular season and thus do not make the playoffs, it kinda takes the lustre off of the playoff shine.
But on another note, when he's #8 in save percentage among all starters over the last 4 years, and has saved more shots then any other goalie has even faced over the last 2 years, can they be blamed for their missing the playoffs 3 of 4 of those years?

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02-17-2013, 03:07 PM
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blueowl2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HisIceness View Post
I don't know where he ranks but I know this. That game 7 against Boston I remember at least 4 or 5 good chances very late in the 3rd period and in OT where he was almost standing on his head.

I really don't remember game 7's involving Roy, Brodeur or Hasek among others but I'm almost certain those teams had a better defense than Carolina did during those two runs.

Sometimes I think people don't realize/forget this, and just look at the regular season stats instead.
I wish I could have seen more of that game. I was at an airport and my plane boarded during the start of the third period.

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