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Old
02-15-2013, 12:01 PM
  #276
NotProkofievian
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
One point here... 24 minutes a game on the Coyotes is not the same as 24 mins on say Boston. Different opportunities will be presented to different players depending on who else is on the bench.

It's great that you're high on OEL but based on what I've read here I don't think you're giving PK fair enough credit for the player he is. I see him as a much better player than you do. And while Advanced Stats don't tell the whole story, I'm glad to see that they support me in this case.
"You know what stats I care about? The ones that support my argument! Granted...in this case, there's very few of them, but all others will be summarily rejected."

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02-15-2013, 01:34 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
1st part: Sorry, but that is absolutely ridiculous.

2nd part: "Advanced stats" in hockey are arbitrary imo. Hockey is a free flowing sport with too many players and variables involved in every play to accurately use "Sabre-stats". So, yes, I trust my judgement and knowledge of the sport over any spreadsheet. Especially one that apparently tells me that PK Subban is better than OEL. That right there completely invalidates those stats to me.

You want stats that I care about?
OEL at 20 years old(PK was in AHL at this age): ATOI 22:07, Coyotes Pacific division champions.
This year at 21 years old: ATOI 24:47, 2nd on his team in points.

Anyways, I'm done here. I don't care enough to continue fighting this fight. I only hope PK continues getting better, as he should, and helps this team reach the next level.
You have some of the weakest arguments I've seen since the beginning of my tenure here. You said it yourself at the beginning of your post, hockey is a free flowing sports with too many variables to be judged based on stats only. This is why there are advanced stats. They present a more precise picture and give contexts to the play of a player. They take in account the strengths of the player, the strengths of his opposition, the strengths of his teammates, the weaknesses of all of them and they give a pretty accurate representation of multiple situations. That's why there are many of them and that's why you judge them separately.

The last part of your post is downright laughable as you take a stat that has no context and a ******** of unnacounted for variables. Sure, he's 2nd in pts in his team but he's got 8pts because they Coyotes lack offensive firepower. Last year the team finished last and still had 10 more goals than Phoenix. The fact he's got 2 more pts than PK in twice the amount of games doesn't work in your favor at all.

OEL is an excellent young player and he's definitely in the same ballpark as Subban. It's not ridiculous at all to suggest Subban is better than him. You're talking as if he's in the same category as Karlsson.

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:00 PM
  #278
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Point1: PKilling last year: 1st
Why? good puck pressure

Point 2: PKilling this year: terrible
Why? As passive as ever

UGH? Diaz over Subban on the PK is mind boggling.
_________________________________________

Point 1: 5 on 5 best pairing last year (actually the only pairing remotely decent last year:
Subban - Gorges

Point 2: this year: "Let's put Subban with Bouillon (who's doing a fine job btw) and Gorges with Diaz"
UGH? "Yeah but Diaz is not very strong, ideally 16-17 min a game would be perfect, and while we are at it, Bouillon would actually benefit a lot by playing 16-17 min a game at his age"
"Screw you, Subban with Bouillon and dont overplay them"
???????????????????????????????
_________________________________________

Point 1: Subban makes a costly mistake in the 3rd period.
Point 2: Opponent takes a penalty in OT.
Result: Subban on the bench on a 4 on 3, play about 20 seconds over a 5 min OT.
UGH?: Subban is a gamer, give him the puck in clutch situations PLEASE, especially when he actually made a mistake before, he'll buy it back. Makes statement when the team actually have a comfortable lead and he does a mistake, he'll remember just as much.
_________________________________________

I dont like how they used him right now and he's still doing a fine job, that should tell everything we need to know. He's a gamer, let him play.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:50 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anksun View Post
Point1: PKilling last year: 1st
Why? good puck pressure

Point 2: PKilling this year: terrible
Why? As passive as ever

UGH? Diaz over Subban on the PK is mind boggling.
_________________________________________

Point 1: 5 on 5 best pairing last year (actually the only pairing remotely decent last year:
Subban - Gorges

Point 2: this year: "Let's put Subban with Bouillon (who's doing a fine job btw) and Gorges with Diaz"
UGH? "Yeah but Diaz is not very strong, ideally 16-17 min a game would be perfect, and while we are at it, Bouillon would actually benefit a lot by playing 16-17 min a game at his age"
"Screw you, Subban with Bouillon and dont overplay them"
???????????????????????????????
_________________________________________

Point 1: Subban makes a costly mistake in the 3rd period.
Point 2: Opponent takes a penalty in OT.
Result: Subban on the bench on a 4 on 3, play about 20 seconds over a 5 min OT.
UGH?: Subban is a gamer, give him the puck in clutch situations PLEASE, especially when he actually made a mistake before, he'll buy it back. Makes statement when the team actually have a comfortable lead and he does a mistake, he'll remember just as much.
_________________________________________

I dont like how they used him right now and he's still doing a fine job, that should tell everything we need to know. He's a gamer, let him play.
Going to have to agree.

There is a lot of favoritism going on in the team right now, and its going to end up destroying it.

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Old
02-15-2013, 04:12 PM
  #280
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Going to have to agree.

There is a lot of favoritism going on in the team right now, and its going to end up destroying it.
Is it favoritism, or is it an incapacity to properly evaluate ? I can't imagine a coach would play favorites and not use his best players just because he "likes" some players more.

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Old
02-15-2013, 11:24 PM
  #281
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I've never been called out by so many, wow! I guess I have to defend my opinion some more!

Who am I kidding, even though it's Friday night, I've got nothing better to do. Hahaha
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You're not making any sense.
Stats are factual, your opinion isn't. That's the whole point of it being subjective.
You are simply stubborn. You see one thing, and refuse to believe the evidence that proves you're wrong. Why? I'm not sure, especially considering you look at other stats.
You nit pick the stats. You look at the ones that favor your opinion, and disregard the many more that disfavors it.
I'm truly astonished that you think there really is a stat that can factually rank a player's value relative to his peers.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You're not being honest. You have already agreed that your analysis is nothing more than one of a simple fan. A fan that don't even watch the player live so you only see them when they either have the puck or are surrounded by it. A lot of hockey sense plays are made before the camera moves in on a player, yet you call out PK for lacking some.
You can look at Will Smith and argue that he's 35, but yet his birth certificate puts him at 44. Point of this is eyes can be deceiving, especially when it comes to judging a hockey player. It's not because your eyes are telling you OEL (in the few games you've seen him play) is better than PK, that he actually is. Definitely not when you have solid stats opposing that thought.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
OEL is ahead of PK at the same age. No denying that. In no way does that mean he's better, especially when other stats are proving the opposite. Maybe this year, he will be. Maybe next year it'll be PK. Maybe down the line, they will be exactly as efficient and it will solely be a matter of preference in style. But as of last year, OEL was not better.
OEL is better right now. Some of the other guys I named maybe aren't as effective as PK is right now, but I'd trade him for them without hesitation, because I think they will be better as soon as the next year or two. You must remember though, those are literally the best young defensemen in the NHL, so don't get all homer crazy that I'd trade our stud for them.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
TOI is relative to the team you play on as the coach is the one that will determine it. PK averages less ice time than Gorges, Emelin and Diaz. Are you going to argue they're better?
Probably. If it were something substantial enough, then yes, I probably would argue that player-x, who plays more, is better than player-y, who plays less, providing they were on the same team. If not that, then I'd be debating the coach's ability to coach. In either case, PK will play top minutes for us, so we don't have to worry.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
As for points, PK has 2 points less than OEL with half the games played. You should have looked at that first.
Well I guess that settles it.



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Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
sincerely you just look like you're in deep denial of what kind of player P.K Subban is on a NHL level. Why do you under rate him so? Did he steal your lunch money or something?
Why the hell would I be in denial about the kind of player Subban is? Seriously, why? I'm as die-hard a Habs fan as they come, so really, why would I be biased against him? I'm a huge fan of the kid, but he's simply not as good a player as OEL imo(since that's where we are in this whole thing). You guys know you can still be pretty good while not being among the best of the best, right?

PK Subban is a really good player. The kid can be dominant at times, nearly impossible to stop down low when he is on. He can make some really nice plays with the puck, and is a terrific one-on-one defender. Great shot, hella strong.

OEL is dominant all the time, a real shutdown Dman. He is everywhere and sees the ice Markov style. He's big, and he's a great skater. Not to mention he's got incredible ability with the puck. He does all those things and literally makes it look easy. He is 21 years old. You don't believe me? Watch him play and then tell me I'm crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
EDIT: Worthwhile to note that while you dont seem to be able to appreciate what Subban brings, the 29 other NHL GMs (and their pro scouts, for that matter) do.
What? What does this even mean? I absolutely appreciate what Subban brings, I simply don't try to pretend that he brings more than I see. If anything, the fact that PK is being paid as a 2nd tier young defenseman(which is still a very good thing guys, seriously!), proves that our GM doesn't even put him in that class. Let's see what OEL gets this summer, even if he is a couple years younger. If he doesn't get PAID then you guys can bring this up and feed me some crow.

PK Subban is a very good player! (I'm going to keep repeating this so that you guys can stop accusing me of bashing him.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
"You know what stats I care about? The ones that support my argument! Granted...in this case, there's very few of them, but all others will be summarily rejected."

-HankyZetts
Lol seriously? I've argued against Corsi stats, and the like, many times. I'm not cherry picking here. It's shocking to me that there are actually knowledgeable hockey fans that think OEL isn't better than PK. I'm assuming the spreadsheet you guys are using as your gospel is from here? http://awinninghabit.com/2012/08/15/...-to-his-peers/

If so,

Please go to this link http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67# and play with the list. Sort it however you want, and have a good laugh at some of the insane discrepancies. Switch it to the playoffs last year and look at how crappy LA guys were ranked. They did pretty badly last year in the playoffs, eh?

How can you look at something like that and believe it is accurate in ranking players from around the league? The only real use I can see from those stats is aiding in evaluating and ranking players on the same team, and even then....


Guys, watch OEL play some hockey. Forget that I compared him to PK and just watch him play, seriously. You won't be disappointed, that's a promise.

PK Subban is a very good hockey player.

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Old
02-16-2013, 12:24 AM
  #282
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LMAO. PK > OEL AINEC.

This poll was made like 2 weeks ago in the poll section and PK destroyed OEL, even Bruins/Leafs fans agreed to it.

OEL may be a bit faster and may position himself better, but PK has a far better shot, better vision and completely wrecks him in the physical department. PK is also an agitator and can get under the opponent's skin.

I'd argue that PK is better offensively and on par defensively.

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02-16-2013, 12:31 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
I've never been called out by so many, wow! I guess I have to defend my opinion some more!
There's a reason why so many are calling you out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
I'm truly astonished that you think there really is a stat that can factually rank a player's value relative to his peers.
No, I don't think there's a stat that factually rank a player.
Stats are facts. Are you actually going to deny that??
Used individually, they mean very little. JVR has more goals than Stamkos, nobody is going to argue that he's a better sniper than him.
Advanced stats are multiple stats that help you paint a picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
OEL is better right now. Some of the other guys I named maybe aren't as effective as PK is right now, but I'd trade him for them without hesitation, because I think they will be better as soon as the next year or two. You must remember though, those are literally the best young defensemen in the NHL, so don't get all homer crazy that I'd trade our stud for them.
Oh right, so if one rather believe the actual stats as opposed to a subjective opinion then it makes him a homer...
I guess I should say that you're a hater? Is that it??
I'm on PK's side so I'm a homer, and you're on OEL's side so you're a hater? Really? Are we playing ''I'm 5 years old'' ?

It's cool that you have this opinion. Everyone is entitled to one. But just keep in mind that you are basing this ''they will all be better than PK as soon as next year or two'' idea on absolutely nothing.
Heck, one guys just got to play in his 12th NHL game.
You also mentioned picking a player that hasn't even been drafted yet over PK.

You're just basing this on a few games watched on a TV screen, probably not even paying attention to half the things you should be observing. If only prospects and players were so easily evaluated..
Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Probably. If it were something substantial enough, then yes, I probably would argue that player-x, who plays more, is better than player-y, who plays less, providing they were on the same team. If not that, then I'd be debating the coach's ability to coach. In either case, PK will play top minutes for us, so we don't have to worry.
You're the one that brought up ice time. If you want to argue that Emelin is better than PK, go ahead, I'm up for a laugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Well I guess that settles it.

So, scoring ratio is another stat you discredit. Got it.
Instead, let's just look at the total of points.

You should have listened to yourself and stopped replying on the matter.


Everybody knows, you think OEL is better than PK based on your eyes. It's solid proof I must say.

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Old
02-16-2013, 02:04 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by bdawg1989 View Post
LMAO. PK > OEL AINEC.
I should stop here, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg1989 View Post
This poll was made like 2 weeks ago in the poll section and PK destroyed OEL, even Bruins/Leafs fans agreed to it.
The poll section is for entertainment purposes only, my friend. I have watched and been around enough hockey in my life to be fully confident in my opinion regardless of what HFboards poll section has to say. That place is crazy fickle, and flip-flops year-to-year. It is nothing more than a popularity contest over there and I'd bet 95% of the voters have yet to really watch him play. It's not like PK is chopped liver so I'm not that surprised he'd win a vote on here, OEL is not a flashy player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg1989 View Post
OEL may be a bit faster and may position himself better, but PK has a far better shot, better vision and completely wrecks him in the physical department. PK is also an agitator and can get under the opponent's skin.

I'd argue that PK is better offensively and on par defensively.
I respectfully disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No, I don't think there's a stat that factually rank a player.
Stats are facts. Are you actually going to deny that??
Used individually, they mean very little. JVR has more goals than Stamkos, nobody is going to argue that he's a better sniper than him.
Advanced stats are multiple stats that help you paint a picture.
So shots for:shots against is somehow the stat that decides all? What does Corsi actually measure, the discrepancy between shots for/against while you're on the ice? That's what you've got? PK has Josh Gorges blocking everything, how does that get factored in to his peers evaluation? How about quantifying the various systems being employed around the league? You have yet to show me a single stat that "proves" PK is better than OEL. So why do you say that I deny that stats are facts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It's cool that you have this opinion. Everyone is entitled to one. But just keep in mind that you are basing this ''they will all be better than PK as soon as next year or two'' idea on absolutely nothing.
Heck, one guys just got to play in his 12th NHL game.
You also mentioned picking a player that hasn't even been drafted yet over PK.
I am not basing it off of "nothing" dude, I'm basing it on what I see from them on the ice, and the age they are doing it at.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You're just basing this on a few games watched on a TV screen, probably not even paying attention to half the things you should be observing. If only prospects and players were so easily evaluated..
Interesting that you have an opinion on my ability to "pay attention to the things I should be observing". I don't know how to respond to that. Also, you keep saying "a few games", how many times do you think I've seen him play? How many times have you seen him play and paid attention to the things you were supposed to?

Yes evaluating prospects far removed from the big game does get very tricky, also hard to gauge young AHL/NHL tweeners, but once established in the league, things get much clearer. More importantly, some guys are just so good, that even when their age implies that they should be far from the bigs, they're so special that they excel right away in the NHL.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You're the one that brought up ice time. If you want to argue that Emelin is better than PK, go ahead, I'm up for a laugh.
Do you know that in the last 5 games PK has played less than 21 minutes only once? and that was the game that he got benched for a mistake. Alexei Emelin has only played more than 20 mins twice since PK came back.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Everybody knows, you think OEL is better than PK based on your eyes. It's solid proof I must say.
I never said it was. Watch him and you'll see for yourself!

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Old
02-16-2013, 02:32 AM
  #285
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Lies stink!

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1320841&page=2

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02-16-2013, 02:37 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There's a reason why so many are calling you out.


No, I don't think there's a stat that factually rank a player
.
Stats are facts. Are you actually going to deny that??
so, all those stats that are judgement based (such as, stronger opposition, weaker teammates, etc) are useless then

unless they're just putting numbers on the obvious (such as, Plekanec or Eller being better players than White for example) ?

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02-16-2013, 03:45 AM
  #287
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I don't understand how, if you're Therrien, you bench PK in OT... Especially when you have a powerplay to end the game and he was pretty much the reason for all three goals. I can't remember which (I think it was Moen's) he shakes of St. Louis coming around the net with his patented one-arm hold-back technique. Then he shakes off a defender in the neutral zone with ease before moving the puck forward.

Do we have any other D on the team that can do that? No. Not even Markov. I can't understand why people on here continually say PK isn't on his way to being an elite D-man. I already think he is, but some people either don't watch the same games I do, or they choose to focus on that one mistake he makes rather than the 10-15 good plays.

Get him off the 3rd pairing, get him on the first PP, and for the love of God, Michel, if you ever have a PP in OT again and sit him I hope you Gerrard Gallant reaches over and strikes you.
+1
Totally agree with you.

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Old
02-16-2013, 05:56 AM
  #288
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I haven't seen enough of PK's competition to say where he is relatively speaking but he's an elite Dman easily. I've seen him shut down and neutralize the best of the best so many times. I've also seen him out battle and out muscle some big mean dudes.

His occasionally errors really don't drag him down far enough. He has a very rare and unique skillset. I won't be surprised at the end of the day if he's at the top of the heap.

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02-16-2013, 06:22 AM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg1989 View Post
LMAO. PK > OEL AINEC.

This poll was made like 2 weeks ago in the poll section and PK destroyed OEL, even Bruins/Leafs fans agreed to it.

OEL may be a bit faster and may position himself better, but PK has a far better shot, better vision and completely wrecks him in the physical department. PK is also an agitator and can get under the opponent's skin.

I'd argue that PK is better offensively and on par defensively.
AINEC is a ridiculous statement in this discussion. You basically lost all credibility in your evaluation of OEL.

Who cares about a HF poll that is populated by fans who know very little about the game and have barely seen OEL play if at all.

I am not saying that OEL is better than Subban right now but both players are very comparable as far as current and future value. Any comment that refutes this is an indictment of either homerism or a lack of knowledge about these players.

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02-16-2013, 09:32 AM
  #290
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I've watched the Hurricanes but haven't paid attention at all to OEL. I've got center ice so I'll go check this guy out. I can't comment on him vs PK obviously but I do think that Hanky is underrating PK in these posts. Regardless of whether or not OEL is better, PK still has elite talents and I think he'll be a Norris contender at some point in his career.

I'll check out OEL with an open mind though.

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02-16-2013, 09:39 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I've watched the Hurricanes but haven't paid attention at all to OEL. I've got center ice so I'll go check this guy out. I can't comment on him vs PK obviously but I do think that Hanky is underrating PK in these posts. Regardless of whether or not OEL is better, PK still has elite talents and I think he'll be a Norris contender at some point in his career.

I'll check out OEL with an open mind though.
you got the wrong team broseph!

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02-16-2013, 09:46 AM
  #292
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you got the wrong team broseph!
Coyotes... Avalanche... Hurricanes....


Same thing.



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02-16-2013, 09:48 AM
  #293
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Coyotes... Avalanche... Hurricanes....


Same thing.


True that, they're all moving to Québec city sooner or later.

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Old
02-16-2013, 11:02 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
AINEC is a ridiculous statement in this discussion. You basically lost all credibility in your evaluation of OEL.

Who cares about a HF poll that is populated by fans who know very little about the game and have barely seen OEL play if at all.

I am not saying that OEL is better than Subban right now but both players are very comparable as far as current and future value. Any comment that refutes this is an indictment of either homerism or a lack of knowledge about these players.
The worst part is that PK is actually the one who got killed in that poll. Just an ignorant post through and through.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I've watched the Hurricanes but haven't paid attention at all to OEL. I've got center ice so I'll go check this guy out. I can't comment on him vs PK obviously but I do think that Hanky is underrating PK in these posts. Regardless of whether or not OEL is better, PK still has elite talents and I think he'll be a Norris contender at some point in his career.

I'll check out OEL with an open mind though.
I never said that PK doesn't have some elite talents. He does, but he has some pretty average talents as well. I'm not arguing that PK is bad, I'm arguing that OEL is great.

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02-16-2013, 03:47 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
I never said that PK doesn't have some elite talents. He does, but he has some pretty average talents as well. I'm not arguing that PK is bad, I'm arguing that OEL is great.
You're not arguing much of anything because facts are required in order to make a case. You base this on the few games you've seen OEL play.

In any event, you are focusing on one name. You think OEL is better based on your eyes, fine. No need to further discuss this as there's no debate happening when people are being subjective.

You still listed a bunch of other guys that aren't better than PK. Heck, you even put Hamilton ahead.

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02-16-2013, 03:51 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
so, all those stats that are judgement based (such as, stronger opposition, weaker teammates, etc) are useless then

unless they're just putting numbers on the obvious (such as, Plekanec or Eller being better players than White for example) ?
Not sure what you are trying to argue or ask here..

Plekanec and Eller aren't better than White based on judgment. They are better based on their skills, that are backed up by previous stats.

And I said, individual stats are irrelevant. I even listed an example.

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02-16-2013, 06:05 PM
  #297
Montreal Shadow
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
The worst part is that PK is actually the one who got killed in that poll. Just an ignorant post through and through.



I never said that PK doesn't have some elite talents. He does, but he has some pretty average talents as well. I'm not arguing that PK is bad, I'm arguing that OEL is great.
Except you haven't come up with anything backing up he's so much better than Subban. They're on the same level. What makes OEL so much greater? The idiots in the poll section probably never watched OEL in most cases. A good majority of the board lives in the Eastern Time zone and another good portion lives in Europe. Most of the time when Phoenix plays, it's around 10pm in the East and the game ends at around midnight. I'll call bullcrap if people tell me they stay up to watch Phoenix play. It's even worse for those in Sweden, France etc. They have a 7hrs jet lag from the Eastern Time Zone and a good 10hrs jet lag from the Pacific time zone. When Phoenix plays, it's around the early morning. Do you think people watch Phoenix around 3-8 am?

It's complete rubbish. Most people don't watch him play. They base it all off the hype and popularity the more knowledgeable posters spawn. That and highlight reels.

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Old
02-16-2013, 06:19 PM
  #298
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
Except you haven't come up with anything backing up he's so much better than Subban. They're on the same level. What makes OEL so much greater? The idiots in the poll section probably never watched OEL in most cases. A good majority of the board lives in the Eastern Time zone and another good portion lives in Europe. Most of the time when Phoenix plays, it's around 10pm in the East and the game ends at around midnight. I'll call bullcrap if people tell me they stay up to watch Phoenix play. It's even worse for those in Sweden, France etc. They have a 7hrs jet lag from the Eastern Time Zone and a good 10hrs jet lag from the Pacific time zone. When Phoenix plays, it's around the early morning. Do you think people watch Phoenix around 3-8 am?

It's complete rubbish. Most people don't watch him play. They base it all off the hype and popularity the more knowledgeable posters spawn. That and highlight reels.
Sorry but it just doesn't work that way. OEL is largely underrated which is very evident in this thread. Lack of exposure always leads to players being underrated.......stating the opposite is an excercise in silliness.

If you want to make a valid point in defending Subban in that poll then you would be wiser to point out the overwhelming anti-Hab bias on the main boards.

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Old
02-16-2013, 06:23 PM
  #299
HankyZetts
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You're not arguing much of anything because facts are required in order to make a case. You base this on the few games you've seen OEL play.
I've seen him play a heck of a lot more than "a few" games Kriss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
In any event, you are focusing on one name. You think OEL is better based on your eyes, fine. No need to further discuss this as there's no debate happening when people are being subjective.
Whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You still listed a bunch of other guys that aren't better than PK. Heck, you even put Hamilton ahead.
I think they'll be better in the long run. That's just my opinion.

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Old
02-16-2013, 06:24 PM
  #300
HankyZetts
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Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
Except you haven't come up with anything backing up he's so much better than Subban. They're on the same level. What makes OEL so much greater? The idiots in the poll section probably never watched OEL in most cases. A good majority of the board lives in the Eastern Time zone and another good portion lives in Europe. Most of the time when Phoenix plays, it's around 10pm in the East and the game ends at around midnight. I'll call bullcrap if people tell me they stay up to watch Phoenix play. It's even worse for those in Sweden, France etc. They have a 7hrs jet lag from the Eastern Time Zone and a good 10hrs jet lag from the Pacific time zone. When Phoenix plays, it's around the early morning. Do you think people watch Phoenix around 3-8 am?

It's complete rubbish. Most people don't watch him play. They base it all off the hype and popularity the more knowledgeable posters spawn. That and highlight reels.
I've already listed the reasons I think he is better. And no, I don't think people watch Phoenix play, so I'm going to stop debating this now.

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