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Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

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02-16-2013, 10:14 AM
  #576
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
That's hilarious. So if he has assists they shouldn't count or something? Assists are as good as goals. Do you want him to score 30 goals and 0 assists? How dare he help the team win and rack up assists! (Well would have if not for Staal and Gabby).
Other players not putting the puck in the net is not an excuse for CK more than any other player in the league.

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02-16-2013, 10:14 AM
  #577
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Maybe you should just stop making excuses for a player who has been nothing but lackluster this year.
What excuses? I'm saying he's creating offense. Is that not the point?

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02-16-2013, 10:15 AM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Torts apologists never cease to amaze me . He's accomplished nothing here .
I don't like him any more than you do. But you can at least acknowledge the fact that you were just proven wrong and as bad as he is that "ruining kids development" is not one of his weak points.

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02-16-2013, 10:15 AM
  #579
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Other players not putting the puck in the net is not an excuse for CK more than any other player in the league.
Did I say it was? Who cares about other players? We're talking about CK.

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02-16-2013, 10:16 AM
  #580
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What excuses? I'm saying he's creating offense. Is that not the point?
But he is not creating offense. He's not doing anything. He is sleepwalking out there. Might as well throw some make up on CK and let him play in the show Walking Dead for a few episodes because thats what he looks like out there.

I think the kid still has loads of potential and will be a consistent 20-25g guy. That doesn't excuse him this year or your give credibility to excuses for why he doesn't have points.

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02-16-2013, 10:18 AM
  #581
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"that's a big problem with our club right now," he said. "maybe we need to get whacked around a little bit more to wake us up."
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02-16-2013, 10:19 AM
  #582
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Each player is an individual . Staal was an established player pre Torts . Stepan has done nothing in the Playoffs . MCd is a stud but has shown very little offensively . All the players you mentioned are playing well in spite of Torts not because of him . CK needs to find his own way I agree but be is playing timid because he afraid to get benched by Torts , a notorious bench shortener .

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02-16-2013, 10:24 AM
  #583
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
But he is not creating offense. He's not doing anything. He is sleepwalking out there. Might as well throw some make up on CK and let him play in the show Walking Dead for a few episodes because thats what he looks like out there.

I think the kid still has loads of potential and will be a consistent 20-25g guy. That doesn't excuse him this year or your give credibility to excuses for why he doesn't have points.
If Staal and Gabby converted on gimme chances would he still not be creating offense?

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02-16-2013, 10:24 AM
  #584
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Each player is an individual . Staal was an established player pre Torts . Stepan has done nothing in the Playoffs . MCd is a stud but has shown very little offensively . All the players you mentioned are playing well in spite of Torts not because of him . CK needs to find his own way I agree but be is playing timid because he afraid to get benched by Torts , a notorious bench shortener .
AT least do your research please. McD had 35 points last year as a top pairing dman at 22 years old.

Half the team didn't do **** in the playoffs so Stepan was no different but has been CONSISTENT in the regular season. It is not Torterellas fault that Stepan disappeared come playoff time. What about Del Zotto? Don't forget him.

They are not playing well in spite of him. They are playing well because he is good with young kids.

Torts may be bad with the power play. HE may be horrible at a million different things. This however is not one of his weak points.

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02-16-2013, 10:25 AM
  #585
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Said it before

Kreider needs to be a top 6 player getting top 6 minutes to be successful at this stage. If that's not happening here then send him down to CT. The debate IMO is whether or not there's room for him on the current NYR top 6:

Nash
Richards
Gaborik
Hagelin
Stepan
Callahan

Answer: probably not (although it pains me that Stepan is on our 2nd line he's a Center and couldn't be switched with CK)

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02-16-2013, 10:26 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
If Staal and Gabby converted on gimme chances would he still not be creating offense?
Your talking about 2 or 3 particular incidents. That is not indicative of good play on Kreiders part. 12 or 13 would be. If CK scored some goals then "other players" hampering his assist production would be a MOOT point.

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02-16-2013, 10:50 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Your talking about 2 or 3 particular incidents. That is not indicative of good play on Kreiders part. 12 or 13 would be. If CK scored some goals then "other players" hampering his assist production would be a MOOT point.
Well they were good enough to be goals. Would you prefer he take 5 bad angle shots per game?

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02-16-2013, 11:00 AM
  #588
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
If Staal and Gabby converted on gimme chances would he still not be creating offense?
But it's FOUR chances in FOUR games. Using that as a reason for Kreiders lack of success is really a stretch! Players don't bury 100% of their chances, never. And as I asked before, do you really think that Kreider been good? Forget about those missed opportunities, do you think he's been looking comfortable and been on top of his game?

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02-16-2013, 11:04 AM
  #589
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Torts apologists never cease to amaze me . He's accomplished nothing here .
People who blindly hate him never cease to amaze me.

His team was first in the east last year, had 109 points, made it to game 6 of the ECF, and, oh yeah, had the third 50+ win season in franchise history. How on earth is that "accomplishing nothing?"

We've also had a big group of young players come into their own since he's been the coach - Dz, McD, Stepan, Hagelin.

If that's nothing - sign me up for a whole lot of nothing because a lot of coaches don't ever accomplish any of those things.

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02-16-2013, 11:09 AM
  #590
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People who blindly hate him never cease to amaze me.

His team was first in the east last year, had 109 points, made it to game 6 of the ECF, and, oh yeah, had the third 50+ win season in franchise history. How on earth is that "accomplishing nothing?"

We've also had a big group of young players come into their own since he's been the coach - Dz, McD, Stepan, Hagelin.

If that's nothing - sign me up for a whole lot of nothing because a lot of coaches don't ever accomplish any of those things.
Yeah, this place is going to the birds.

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02-16-2013, 11:13 AM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Torts apologists never cease to amaze me . He's accomplished nothing here .
And never will!!!!!!!!

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02-16-2013, 11:19 AM
  #592
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I personally can't wait till his ass will be fired!!! I just can't believe that so much talent can't produce and compete for the first place in the eastern conference. At this point it is Torts fault and no one else.

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02-16-2013, 11:23 AM
  #593
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I personally can't wait till his ass will be fired!!! I just can't believe that so much talent can't produce and compete for the first place in the eastern conference. At this point it is Torts fault and no one else.
Please look about 4 comments up and tell me how the things I mentioned don't count as "accomplishing something."

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02-16-2013, 11:29 AM
  #594
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That makes zero sense to me. He's a friggin rookie.

Typical Torts. No rhyme or reason. He just does things for the sake of doing them.

Maybe, just maybe, the coach for once puts the onus on himself and not the player.

Maybe, just maybe, Torts and his staff don't know how to help him improve. Nope, they just use the "go to hartford blankey excuse".

He's a rookie. If he's not doing anything wrong, then why the **** is he being benched with 50pct of the team isnt doing anything right?
I'm not a fan of Torts' system anymore, but I think he isn't the one to blame. Hagelin sure didn't have a problem adjusting as a regular on the Rangers last year.

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02-16-2013, 11:29 AM
  #595
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The players were sacrificing their bodies by blocking shots in order to win the games. The reason for that is because they couldn't outscore their opponents in most games. Torts was lucky that he didn't start the playoffs with the AHL roster last year cause most of the players could be injured.

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02-16-2013, 11:46 AM
  #596
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The players were sacrificing their bodies by blocking shots in order to win the games. The reason for that is because they couldn't outscore their opponents in most games. Torts was lucky that he didn't start the playoffs with the AHL roster last year cause most of the players could be injured.
So...he found a way for a team that couldn't outscore their opponents to be wildly successful and for that reason he's a bad coach?

Do people honestly not remember last year? Same thing - slow start, fire torts, every decision he makes it wrong etc. and it turned out to be the best year this franchise has had in a long, long time.

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02-16-2013, 11:48 AM
  #597
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But it's FOUR chances in FOUR games. Using that as a reason for Kreiders lack of success is really a stretch! Players don't bury 100% of their chances, never. And as I asked before, do you really think that Kreider been good? Forget about those missed opportunities, do you think he's been looking comfortable and been on top of his game?
No, but if he would be a point per game player since his injuries I'd take that.

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02-16-2013, 11:50 AM
  #598
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Two important factors at play here, imo: Maturity and Mind Set.

It has been discussed in depth here that Kreider possesses a ton of natural ability, an amazingly hard accurate shot, speed, size, etc., etc.

This is just my opinion, but the one thing he lacks now is a mindset that focuses on consistent puck pursuit.

Hagelin is effective because he uses his speed to pursue the puck, relentlessly pressure the opposition, and thus enhance every skill he has. When Kreider does this he becomes instantly dangerous...but that is the thing. He is not consistent in this area. If Kreider was harder on the puck his inexperience would take a back seat to the pressure he could put on opponents. I think this is the major reason he was sent back to Connecticut.

Admittedly, I'm a little concerned. A tape session can make things pretty clear. I have no first hand knowledge, but this has to have been pointed out to him. Repeatedly.

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02-16-2013, 11:50 AM
  #599
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I'm not a fan of Torts' system anymore, but I think he isn't the one to blame. Hagelin sure didn't have a problem adjusting as a regular on the Rangers last year.
That's a completely reasonable position to have. He makes mistakes, and I don't think he's some perfect super-coach, but I'm so sick of hearing about how stupid he is or about how he doesn't know what he's doing, especially when those complaints revolve around his management of the youth, which I think he's done a great job with so far. His work on the PP is absolutely disgusting, his TOI management with certain players is questionable, but he gives the young guys a chance and he's had some young players really blossom while he's been here. I think he's handling CK just fine and I think Miller has shown the guts necessary to stay in the NHL while CK hasn't. He can still be a great player, he's not just ready for this league yet.

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02-16-2013, 11:56 AM
  #600
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No, but if he would be a point per game player since his injuries I'd take that.
IF. If If if if if if if if if. If every time hagelin made a great pass to some one and they scored, hags would have been rookie of the year.

What you are talking about is a circumstance that is not unique to Chris Kreider. You just attempt to make to appear that way (or maybe you really do believe it to be the truth) either way it shows a complete lack of objectivity.

And with respect to Dorado, Another young player who has blossomed excessively under Torts is Carl Hagelin. Thanks. Point made, Torts does not ruin young talent or discourage them in any way. It is one if his few strengths.


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