HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade? (Part 2)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-16-2013, 01:05 PM
  #926
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,295
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Commenting on his value and what he has done is totally irrelevant to your team - why even comment on it. Unless you are a Pens fan too, than I'm sorry. But the value you are getting from Kulemin is coming from Pittsburgh.
I'm allowed to comment on value even if I'm not a fan of another team, right? I do have the privilege to comment on other players, right? Or do you think I'm not allowed to do that I posted my opinion with some facts on Kulemin. I might not be a Pens fan, but good luck convincing the Pens to give up a 1st this year and a 1st rounder last year for a mid 2nd and Kulemin.


Last edited by piqued: 02-16-2013 at 01:42 PM. Reason: unnecessary
Avs44 is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:13 PM
  #927
Sterling31
YNWA
 
Sterling31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
I'm allowed to comment on value even if I'm not a fan of another team, right? I do have the privilege to comment on other players, right? Or do you think I'm not allowed to do that I posted my opinion with some facts on Kulemin. I might not be a Pens fan, but good luck convincing the Pens to give up a 1st this year and a 1st rounder last year for a mid 2nd and Kulemin.
You don't understand. I took it that you were commenting that Kulemin + Colborne + 2nd is horrible value for ROR......sure it may be.......but you aren't getting Kule , nor the 2nd......So why comment on it's value to your team? Comment away, but like others have said, if you don't like a response.....a message board may not be for you.

I am the farthest thing from arrogant. I'm just trying to make mud a little clearer, but i guess it got interpreted the wrong way. cheers. We all love hockey, have a good weekend.


Last edited by piqued: 02-16-2013 at 01:42 PM. Reason: qep
Sterling31 is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:18 PM
  #928
beauchamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Laval, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
? I'm not sure I follow. The Avs have taken a hardline stance for the rest of their young core, not the rest of the league.
And the rest of the league should be concerned too.

Arbitration does use comparables.

So any big contract to a non-arbitration eligible player skews the arbitration process.

beauchamp is online now  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:20 PM
  #929
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,295
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
You don't understand. I took it that you were commenting that Kulemin + Colborne + 2nd is horrible value for ROR......sure it may be.......but you aren't getting Kule , nor the 2nd......So why comment on it's value to your team? Comment away, but like others have said, if you don't like a response.....a message board may not be for you.

I am the farthest thing from arrogant. I'm just trying to make mud a little clearer, but i guess it got interpreted the wrong way. cheers. We all love hockey, have a good weekend.
Excellent. We cleared that up then. I don't see where in the post you replied to I said I was commenting on Kulemin's value to the Avs, but whatever.



I don't think the Pens would give up that much for Kulemim, so that
kind of makes the entire deal pointless. In a 3 way trade on HF, I find one team always gets the
short end of the stick.

Avs44 is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:30 PM
  #930
Sterling31
YNWA
 
Sterling31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Excellent. We cleared that up then. I don't see where in the post you replied to I said I was commenting on Kulemin's value to the Avs, but whatever.



I don't think the Pens would give up that much for Kulemim, so that
kind of makes the entire deal pointless. In a 3 way trade on HF, I find one team always gets the
short end of the stick.
It is true.

Pitts has shown interest in Kulemin though. (you really need to watch a lot of him to appreciate him as a player) - I'm not trying to sell him either, he is someone I want to build with. (But in terms of value, it is fun to try and make an even trade)

IMO the Avalanche are the team that would write off the deal entirely, and I understand fully. Why would they want to move someone that should be apart of their core?.....for guys they 'hope' reach that status.

However, on the side of the GM getting ROR; the question is: why would they consider moving valuable pieces for a guy holding out?

The image doesn't look too good for this guy, good player sure....But it would be hard to pay market value for someone who wants top dollar at a young age, and isn't about to give any breaks to the team who put a lot of effort into drafting + developing him.


Just my 2 cents, on it.

Sterling31 is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:33 PM
  #931
islandermaniac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Commenting on his value and what he has done is totally irrelevant to your team - why even comment on it. Unless you are a Pens fan too, than I'm sorry. But the value you are getting from Kulemin is coming from Pittsburgh.
i went back in this thread to see that you think that a package of kulemin, colborne, and a 2nd round pick could, after involving a third team, net o'reilly. i believe that you are incorrect. kulemin has 8 goals in his last 84 games. colborne has 25 goals in his last 123 AMERICAN hockey league games. poor offensive production injures value.

then, whn contracts are examined, value declines even more. kulemin is a ufa at the end of next season.

so when both production and contract status are examined, the package you offer does not come close to allowing toronto to acquire a player like o'reilly.

the islanders could easily trump that leaf offer by throwing out a player like okposo whose goal production AND contract status give him greater trade value than kulemin. they could also throw out a number of prospects who produce more than colborne. a kid like niederreiter has infinitely more offensive potential than colborne. 24 goals in 52 american hockey league games compared to 25 in 123 contents. anyone looking at theose numbers can't even fairly compare the two.

my point, i don't know that okposo and niederreiter would get o'reilly so i'm absolutely convinced that kulemin and colborne can't.

islandermaniac is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:38 PM
  #932
Roboholic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,676
vCash: 500
Why would anyone give anything significant for the rights to ROR.

Really confused by this whole situation.

Add to that Colorado doesn't appear to think he's worth what ROR thinks he's worth.

Roboholic is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:38 PM
  #933
Sterling31
YNWA
 
Sterling31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
i went back in this thread to see that you think that a package of kulemin, colborne, and a 2nd round pick could, after involving a third team, net o'reilly. i believe that you are incorrect. kulemin has 8 goals in his last 84 games. colborne has 25 goals in his last 123 AMERICAN hockey league games. poor offensive production injures value.

then, whn contracts are examined, value declines even more. kulemin is a ufa at the end of next season.

so when both production and contract status are examined, the package you offer does not come close to allowing toronto to acquire a player like o'reilly.

the islanders could easily trump that leaf offer by throwing out a player like okposo whose goal production AND contract status give him greater trade value than kulemin. they could also throw out a number of prospects who produce more than colborne. a kid like niederreiter has infinitely more offensive potential than colborne. 24 goals in 52 american hockey league games compared to 25 in 123 contents. anyone looking at theose numbers can't even fairly compare the two.

my point, i don't know that okposo and niederreiter would get o'reilly so i'm absolutely convinced that kulemin and colborne can't.
Agree.

Kulemin + Colborne + 2nd will not net us ROR, straight up.

Not saying my 'actual proposal' will either - Totally different trade though.

Sterling31 is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:39 PM
  #934
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,295
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboholic View Post
Why would anyone give anything significant for the rights to ROR.

Really confused by this whole situation.

Add to that Colorado doesn't appear to think he's worth what ROR thinks he's worth.
Because you won't get him if you don't.

Avs44 is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:42 PM
  #935
cgf
Registered User
 
cgf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
lol.

Delusional. The Leaf player underrating/hatred is on obnoxious proportions on here.
Clearly haven't noticed just how facetious I've been with leafs proposals here, but that's not even too crazy, value's there, but Duchene is a 21 year old Center who's already gone to one allstar game while playing at a PPG pace, and is now playing better than ever before all over the ice. Considering he's still an RFA for a long time and a life long avs fan, I don't think trading him for a goal scoring winger, who's not great in his own zone and is a UFA soon, and a sophomore PMD, who's currently concussed, is a good trade especially with the uncertainty around Staz and O'Reilly's futures with the team.

cgf is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:42 PM
  #936
islandermaniac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Because you won't get him if you don't.
i agree.

islandermaniac is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:43 PM
  #937
Roboholic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Because you won't get him if you don't.
I guess my point is why would I give up ANYTHING for someone that's not playing in the NHL and can't come to terms on a contract.

Roboholic is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:45 PM
  #938
TheStranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,932
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboholic View Post
I guess my point is why would I give up ANYTHING for someone that's not playing in the NHL and can't come to terms on a contract.
Actually I think what you mean is..."Why would I WANT such a player". If you don't WANT the player then it's easy to see why you wouldn't give up anything for him. Many teams badly want the player, and the only way to get him is to give Colorado a good package, otherwise they can continue doing what they're doing and not move him at all.

TheStranger is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:45 PM
  #939
cgf
Registered User
 
cgf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
And guess what, we have insider information on this.... Oreilly wanted to be here, loves his teammates, shockingly loved the coaching staff, and enjoyed the city. In fact I still don't think its out of the question that he signs here.
It's not shocking, Joe Sacco's love for the grind means that Radar's amazing two way play gives him the most epic of boners. Plus he paired him up with our best winger in camp and kept feeding the two of them more and more responsibility. Joe Sacco may be a horrendous coach, but he's been good to O'Reilly, which is why I'm not surprised he likes him. This isn't Paul Stastny having to give up his wingers with each injury while removing the cycle that Paul gets so many points off of, him I would understand hating Sacco.

cgf is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:47 PM
  #940
Jakey53
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboholic View Post
Why would anyone give anything significant for the rights to ROR.

Really confused by this whole situation.

Add to that Colorado doesn't appear to think he's worth what ROR thinks he's worth.
Either do I.

Jakey53 is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #941
cgf
Registered User
 
cgf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
And the rest of the league should be concerned too.

Arbitration does use comparables.

So any big contract to a non-arbitration eligible player skews the arbitration process.
Yeah, he cleared that up, and that's part of why there's been no offersheet for O'Reilly.

cgf is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #942
Roboholic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStranger View Post
Actually I think what you mean is..."Why would I WANT such a player". If you don't WANT the player then it's easy to see why you wouldn't give up anything for him. Many teams badly want the player, and the only way to get him is to give Colorado a good package, otherwise they can continue doing what they're doing and not move him at all.
Exactly, I would prefer he not play for Colorado then not play for my team.

Roboholic is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 01:51 PM
  #943
cgf
Registered User
 
cgf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboholic View Post
Exactly, I would prefer he not play for Colorado then not play for my team.

He's not playing because:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=911

cgf is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 02:08 PM
  #944
Fire Lindy
Trust the System
 
Fire Lindy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,842
vCash: 500
If the Avs wait until the draft, does it hurt his value at all when you consider that a 22 year old just lost a season of playing in the NHL? Not exactly ideal development wise.

Fire Lindy is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 02:12 PM
  #945
Sweech
COYS!
 
Sweech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,772
vCash: 2252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboholic View Post
I guess my point is why would I give up ANYTHING for someone that's not playing in the NHL and can't come to terms on a contract.
I don't know.

Ask the Boston Bruins and Phil Kessel.

Sweech is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 02:17 PM
  #946
Soft Rock Renegade
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
isn't he already a top 2C by virtue of playing with landeskog?

Soft Rock Renegade is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 02:24 PM
  #947
BigBenSF*
Worst Behavior
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: bay area
Country: United States
Posts: 2,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
The 3-way deal may just work with Kulemin.

Leafs may be able to get decent value for Nik because of his experience with Malkin. And that value - along with some give on our side, may be able to entice the Avs.

Just a thought.

Avs-
1st(pit)
Colborne
Maatta

Pitts-
Kulemin
2nd(tor)

Tor-
ROR
No from Avs and Pens.

BigBenSF* is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 02:34 PM
  #948
sansabri
#blocktheboat
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saint-Hubert, QC
Country: Palestine
Posts: 10,535
vCash: 500
i love these three-way deals where the home team gives the least but gets back the most!

sansabri is online now  
Old
02-16-2013, 02:35 PM
  #949
TheStranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,932
vCash: 500
I don't know what's going to happen but I feel a bombshell incoming, along the lines of the Johnson trade.

TheStranger is offline  
Old
02-16-2013, 02:42 PM
  #950
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 6,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
I don't know.

Ask the Boston Bruins and Phil Kessel.

For a better example------

look at Buffalo and Michael Peca holdout.

He is the same style ROR would be. Peca for Buffalo was around a low 20s goal scorer and around 50 pts per season. In juniors--unlike ROR --he did get about 90 goals in his 2 yrs.

After a year holding out, he was traded to the Islanders for Tim Connolly and Taylor Pyatt.

He had similar contract demands of wanting much more money than what he should be paid, so is salary would throw the entire team out of whack with salary.

Djp is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.