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Old
02-10-2013, 01:18 PM
  #151
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Wennberg will go Top 15 i think. Better prospect than Hartman. Plethora of forwards i'd prefer over Hartman.

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02-10-2013, 02:04 PM
  #152
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Wennberg will go Top 15 i think. Better prospect than Hartman. Plethora of forwards i'd prefer over Hartman.
Yes, I think Wennberg will go top 20. I wasn't saying Wennberg would be a late 1st, and I think we'll be picking higher than where he'll go anyway. Just that if we got a late 1st, I'd like to take Hartman.

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02-10-2013, 02:31 PM
  #153
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Yes, I think Wennberg will go top 20. I wasn't saying Wennberg would be a late 1st, and I think we'll be picking higher than where he'll go anyway. Just that if we got a late 1st, I'd like to take Hartman.
Oh i know. Wennberg might be a borderline Top 10 pick.

Erne, Gauthier, Mantha, Burakowsky are all players that interest me. Some heading in different directions stock wise. Then there is Nichushkin. I imagine he'll be all over the board from team to team. But dat physical package ....

I think we have numerous solid two way Gritty prospects in the system. We don't have many larger gifted players (Bjugstad aside). So there are more appealing players for me.

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02-10-2013, 03:55 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Oh i know. Wennberg might be a borderline Top 10 pick.

Erne, Gauthier, Mantha, Burakowsky are all players that interest me. Some heading in different directions stock wise. Then there is Nichushkin. I imagine he'll be all over the board from team to team. But dat physical package ....

I think we have numerous solid two way Gritty prospects in the system. We don't have many larger gifted players (Bjugstad aside). So there are more appealing players for me.
It seems hard to get a good read on Burakowsky. I think I'd rather pick Hartman than Burakowsky. IMO Hartman has 2nd line potential. I'd add Horvat to your list, I'd put him above Mantha and about where Gauthier is projected to go. Mantha has really fallen in my eyes, he's displayed poor work ethic this season and isn't interested much in playing defense. In a draft where there are many other good forwards, he really hasn't done himself any favors with his attitude IMO.

I'd take Nichushkin around #20 or later, I'm not sure if we'll have a pick in that range though.

If we're not going to make the playoffs, I really hope we can get Barkov, Monahan, or Erne. We really need another highly skilled powerforward in our top 6 besides Bjugstad and potentially Shore.

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02-10-2013, 05:04 PM
  #155
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It seems hard to get a good read on Burakowsky. I think I'd rather pick Hartman than Burakowsky. IMO Hartman has 2nd line potential. I'd add Horvat to your list, I'd put him above Mantha and about where Gauthier is projected to go. Mantha has really fallen in my eyes, he's displayed poor work ethic this season and isn't interested much in playing defense. In a draft where there are many other good forwards, he really hasn't done himself any favors with his attitude IMO.

I'd take Nichushkin around #20 or later, I'm not sure if we'll have a pick in that range though.

If we're not going to make the playoffs, I really hope we can get Barkov, Monahan, or Erne. We really need another highly skilled powerforward in our top 6 besides Bjugstad and potentially Shore.
Burakowsky is more talented than Hartman. Better upside. Of course, he's had a difficult season. The U-18's will be important for him.

Mantha does have these issues, but he has very projectable NHL qualities. It's a risk/reward, but given we have a plethora of solid two way forward prospects, it's a gamble with merit. I'm comfortable projecting Shore, Knight and Howden (With Shore being by far the best) as solid NHL players but who lack in some areas (I.e offensively).

Nichushkin i change my opinion on perpetually. He just dominated an U-18 event against strong teams. No player can offer the attributes he has at #20, but is the IQ there? The Russian factor doesn't really worry me. The flight risk is much greater than luring them over (For elite youth talents).

Agree on Erne. Happy after the elite forwards are gone on taking a chance on him.

Can't comment much on Horvat.

I'd be very happy with any of the top 5 Forwards. Prefer Barkov to Monahan largely because of offensive upside. Barkov has better puck skills and room for improvement in his skating. Drouin/Lindholm would be awesome too. Sure, they aren't tall imposing players, but their scoring abilities are exceptional.

I believe cases can be made for Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov and Lindholm being the best forwards down the line. Would be content with whoever from that group.

Other players of interest are Gauthier and Zykov. Physical players with offensive upside. Ristolainen would be my preference on D if we went that route (Excluding Jones obv). Hagg is inconsistent, but very interesting prospect.

Buchnevich would be a great gamble in the 2nd round and onwards.

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02-10-2013, 07:02 PM
  #156
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Burakowsky is more talented than Hartman. Better upside. Of course, he's had a difficult season. The U-18's will be important for him.

Mantha does have these issues, but he has very projectable NHL qualities. It's a risk/reward, but given we have a plethora of solid two way forward prospects, it's a gamble with merit. I'm comfortable projecting Shore, Knight and Howden (With Shore being by far the best) as solid NHL players but who lack in some areas (I.e offensively).

Nichushkin i change my opinion on perpetually. He just dominated an U-18 event against strong teams. No player can offer the attributes he has at #20, but is the IQ there? The Russian factor doesn't really worry me. The flight risk is much greater than luring them over (For elite youth talents).

Agree on Erne. Happy after the elite forwards are gone on taking a chance on him.

Can't comment much on Horvat.

I'd be very happy with any of the top 5 Forwards. Prefer Barkov to Monahan largely because of offensive upside. Barkov has better puck skills and room for improvement in his skating. Drouin/Lindholm would be awesome too. Sure, they aren't tall imposing players, but their scoring abilities are exceptional.

I believe cases can be made for Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov and Lindholm being the best forwards down the line. Would be content with whoever from that group.

Other players of interest are Gauthier and Zykov. Physical players with offensive upside. Ristolainen would be my preference on D if we went that route (Excluding Jones obv). Hagg is inconsistent, but very interesting prospect.

Buchnevich would be a great gamble in the 2nd round and onwards.
I really don't know much about Burakowsky, but he seems to be falling on a lot of lists. If the draft were held today, I'd pick Hartman over him.

If Mantha was similar to the Getzlaf situation in '03, then I'd take Mantha from 8-15. But he's not that good. I think he'll find that he's not going to be anywhere near as successful at the next level if he continues to float and not put in full effort every game. There are a lot of other forwards in this draft who are just as skilled or more skilled as Mantha, some who also offer a similar package of size and braun. I wouldn't hesitate for a second passing on him if one of these other guys was still on the board too.

I think I echo your sentiments on Nihushkin. He has a package of phenomenal physical tools, but there seem to be questions about his hockey sense. Combined with the Russian factor(and I consider flight risk a part of this), he's not very high on my radar(for where we will pick).

I would obviously take Barkov and Drouin over Monahan. Probably Lindholm too. I guess what I'm saying is I hope we end up with a power forward as our first pick. We need more size and grit in our top 6. But for example if we pick #4 and Barkov has just been selected before us, then without a doubt we should take Drouin.

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02-11-2013, 03:46 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
I really don't know much about Burakowsky, but he seems to be falling on a lot of lists. If the draft were held today, I'd pick Hartman over him.

If Mantha was similar to the Getzlaf situation in '03, then I'd take Mantha from 8-15. But he's not that good. I think he'll find that he's not going to be anywhere near as successful at the next level if he continues to float and not put in full effort every game. There are a lot of other forwards in this draft who are just as skilled or more skilled as Mantha, some who also offer a similar package of size and braun. I wouldn't hesitate for a second passing on him if one of these other guys was still on the board too.

I think I echo your sentiments on Nihushkin. He has a package of phenomenal physical tools, but there seem to be questions about his hockey sense. Combined with the Russian factor(and I consider flight risk a part of this), he's not very high on my radar(for where we will pick).

I would obviously take Barkov and Drouin over Monahan. Probably Lindholm too. I guess what I'm saying is I hope we end up with a power forward as our first pick. We need more size and grit in our top 6. But for example if we pick #4 and Barkov has just been selected before us, then without a doubt we should take Drouin.
Agree 100% and thats why I started looking at who those guys could be in this draft (not just in the 1st round too). If we are picking around #10 like I think, I'm on board with taking Erne or Gauthier for sure. But there are definitely a few guys that I like also in the late 1st/early 2nd round too that could be solid picks that turn into a power forward type of player for the top 6 (Rychel, Zykov, Horvat, De La Rose). It seems like this is a good yr to be needing to draft that type of player though with what seems like a plethora to choose from.

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02-11-2013, 10:21 PM
  #158
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Agree 100% and thats why I started looking at who those guys could be in this draft (not just in the 1st round too). If we are picking around #10 like I think, I'm on board with taking Erne or Gauthier for sure. But there are definitely a few guys that I like also in the late 1st/early 2nd round too that could be solid picks that turn into a power forward type of player for the top 6 (Rychel, Zykov, Horvat, De La Rose). It seems like this is a good yr to be needing to draft that type of player though with what seems like a plethora to choose from.
I agree completely with the names on your list. I'd also add Jason Dickinson, Justin Bailey, and Jimmy Lodge to the list. Although Lodge might be more of a late 2nd/early 3rd. He's not on a lot of radars right now but he's a guy who could rise in the last few months. He's actually picked up his scoring pace in Saginaw since around the time Trocheck was traded. And scouts love kids with that size, 6'2" and not afraid to drive to the net.

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02-12-2013, 08:40 AM
  #159
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I agree completely with the names on your list. I'd also add Jason Dickinson, Justin Bailey, and Jimmy Lodge to the list. Although Lodge might be more of a late 2nd/early 3rd. He's not on a lot of radars right now but he's a guy who could rise in the last few months. He's actually picked up his scoring pace in Saginaw since around the time Trocheck was traded. And scouts love kids with that size, 6'2" and not afraid to drive to the net.
Yeah I read a little about Dickinson also but havent seen anything specific from him, he's another late 1st/early 2nd rounder type of guy along with Bailey.

The thing that concerns me about Lodge is yeah he's 6'2" but he's listed at only like 165 lbs. Thats way too thin to able to play a power forward game in the NHL. We already have Huberdeau that we're worrying about needing to put on pounds and he's not as tall and weighs more than that. If we're taking a shot on someone in that range, I'd rather it be someone like John Hayden from the USNDTP who's 6'3" and 220 lbs already.

Also hope we find a way to use a pick on a goalie too this yr. I havent read anything about the goalies though this yr outside of Fucale so I'm behind in that dept. Any decent options for us in the 4th or 5th round (since we lack a 3rd rounder and I dont feel we should use a 2nd on a goalie)?

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02-12-2013, 09:51 AM
  #160
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Yeah I read a little about Dickinson also but havent seen anything specific from him, he's another late 1st/early 2nd rounder type of guy along with Bailey.

The thing that concerns me about Lodge is yeah he's 6'2" but he's listed at only like 165 lbs. Thats way too thin to able to play a power forward game in the NHL. We already have Huberdeau that we're worrying about needing to put on pounds and he's not as tall and weighs more than that. If we're taking a shot on someone in that range, I'd rather it be someone like John Hayden from the USNDTP who's 6'3" and 220 lbs already.

Also hope we find a way to use a pick on a goalie too this yr. I havent read anything about the goalies though this yr outside of Fucale so I'm behind in that dept. Any decent options for us in the 4th or 5th round (since we lack a 3rd rounder and I dont feel we should use a 2nd on a goalie)?
Agreed. Picking a goalie when our big goalie prospect is about to make the jump to NHL seems like the prudent thing to do. Slow and steady stream in case whatever happens.

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02-12-2013, 11:01 AM
  #161
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From the little i know, the North American goalie crop is considered quite strong, whilst the European contingent is considered quite weak. Of course, like most years, Good Goaltenders from this age group will be picked late in the draft or not even drafted.

If the scouts like a Goaltender, by all means, take a gamble. I'd prefer to stay away from Goaltenders in the 1st couple of rounds. Even with Markstrom, we are seeing how long Goaltenders take. Markstrom, one of the better U-20 Goaltenders in a long time, is 5 years removed from being drafted, and still isn't in the NHL on a regular part time basis yet. The development path is very long and i don't think the investment with high picks is worth it when history shows us Good Goaltenders can be found via many many avenues.


Coolburn, worrying about someones frame with only their weight data is a little perplexing. We are discussing 17/18 year old kids here. Unless you know their family history, their body type and have several viewings on how they play with their frame, i think it's pretty useless conjecture.

Plethora of projects available in the second round Forward wise i think. Dano, Kujawinski, Dickinson, Buchnevich, Burakowksy, De La Rose, Bailey, Hurley all have interesting packages. Smaller players like Petan, Lekhonen seem projected in that range too.

Heard good things about Hurley. Very interesting package of size and skill. Youngest eligible player. Never seen him however.

De La Rose is a big player who plays straight forward game. The little i've seen doesn't scream significant offensive abilities, but he skates well, competes well and plays a simplistic good two way game. Later half of his season will dictate if he's a late 1st or early 2nd.

Dano is slightly smaller, but good puck skills. Skating isn't the greatest. Is playing well in limited minutes in the KHL. Might be a similar project pick to Jaskin/Panik. Somewhat inconsistent in compete level from i've heard. Skills are there though, and seems like a classic 40-50 type pick with upside.

Burakowsky has good frame, shoots the puck well, good skating and overall quite a dynamic player. Capable of more with the puck than De La Rose. Inconsistent this year, struggled with Malmo in allsvenskan. Stock depends on U-18 show and improvements with Malmo towards end of the year. A boom or bust type pick.

Kujawinski has interesting package of size, skating and soft hands. Inconsistent this year, was pegged as potential high 1st round coming into the year. Somewhat like Burakowsky, your taking a gamble on what might be there relative to what is there now.

Dickinson/Bailey i don't know much about.

Buchnevich had the best year of all Russian 95's in the MHL last year. Had a tough year so far with injuries. Not large player, but very good offensive skill set. In pure ability would rank as one of the better players available in this draft. Hard to know where he is selected, given injuries and lack of exposure in the KHL to date (MHL isn't scouted as highly as it merits purely on talent). Fascinating pick in the 2nd and onwards IMO.


Lehkonen and Petan would be two smaller players you'd look at strongly too. Both undersized (Petan especially) but have put up great numbers. Lehkonen has performed poorly on the international stage, whereas Petan hasn't had that opportunity, which may hurt Lehkonen's stock. But both have extremely good puck skills and vision and would be interesting gambles towards the end of the 1st/start of the 2nd.

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02-12-2013, 01:13 PM
  #162
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From the little i know, the North American goalie crop is considered quite strong, whilst the European contingent is considered quite weak. Of course, like most years, Good Goaltenders from this age group will be picked late in the draft or not even drafted.

If the scouts like a Goaltender, by all means, take a gamble. I'd prefer to stay away from Goaltenders in the 1st couple of rounds. Even with Markstrom, we are seeing how long Goaltenders take. Markstrom, one of the better U-20 Goaltenders in a long time, is 5 years removed from being drafted, and still isn't in the NHL on a regular part time basis yet. The development path is very long and i don't think the investment with high picks is worth it when history shows us Good Goaltenders can be found via many many avenues.


Coolburn, worrying about someones frame with only their weight data is a little perplexing. We are discussing 17/18 year old kids here. Unless you know their family history, their body type and have several viewings on how they play with their frame, i think it's pretty useless conjecture.
Yeah I think we dont need to worry about drafting a goalie until the 4th & 5th rounds. A lot of solid goaltenders were selected after the 2nd round so there's still value you. Heck Ryan Miller was selected in the 5th round using a pick we traded to them. But we definitely could use another guy in the pipeline based on how Brittain has done this yr.

Why is that perplexing though? Evaluating a prospect based on size is very common and if a kid has trouble putting on weight, it may not be any easier even as he gets older. We were also talking about power forward type prospects and if a kid doesnt have the weight to go with the height, they usually dont end up playing a typical power forward type game. We'll know a lot more if he's invited to the scouting combine to run thru the tests (particularly some of the strength ones). But if a kid who's 6'2" and only 165 lbs doesnt concern you, that to me is odd. I mean I'd be fine with him if he was like 180 lbs and that height but to be so slight of frame right now would scare a lot of GMs too if they try to play a power game instead of a finesse game.

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02-12-2013, 01:47 PM
  #163
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Yeah I think we dont need to worry about drafting a goalie until the 4th & 5th rounds. A lot of solid goaltenders were selected after the 2nd round so there's still value you. Heck Ryan Miller was selected in the 5th round using a pick we traded to them. But we definitely could use another guy in the pipeline based on how Brittain has done this yr.

Why is that perplexing though? Evaluating a prospect based on size is very common and if a kid has trouble putting on weight, it may not be any easier even as he gets older. We were also talking about power forward type prospects and if a kid doesnt have the weight to go with the height, they usually dont end up playing a typical power forward type game. We'll know a lot more if he's invited to the scouting combine to run thru the tests (particularly some of the strength ones). But if a kid who's 6'2" and only 165 lbs doesnt concern you, that to me is odd. I mean I'd be fine with him if he was like 180 lbs and that height but to be so slight of frame right now would scare a lot of GMs too if they try to play a power game instead of a finesse game.

I have never seen the player, don't know his bloodlines, don't know his body type and don't know how he plays. So his weight doesn't really concern me. Conjecture here is useless without some understanding of the above.

Power game is a misleading idea. If he plays with grit, and projects to bulk up and be great at projecting the puck with his frame, then that is great. Power game doesn't mena just punishing hits.

Of course, having never seen him, i am in no way able to judge based on weight stats what he projects as in the future. So it's an irrelevant discussion for me.

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02-12-2013, 05:17 PM
  #164
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Yeah I read a little about Dickinson also but havent seen anything specific from him, he's another late 1st/early 2nd rounder type of guy along with Bailey.

The thing that concerns me about Lodge is yeah he's 6'2" but he's listed at only like 165 lbs. Thats way too thin to able to play a power forward game in the NHL. We already have Huberdeau that we're worrying about needing to put on pounds and he's not as tall and weighs more than that. If we're taking a shot on someone in that range, I'd rather it be someone like John Hayden from the USNDTP who's 6'3" and 220 lbs already.

Also hope we find a way to use a pick on a goalie too this yr. I havent read anything about the goalies though this yr outside of Fucale so I'm behind in that dept. Any decent options for us in the 4th or 5th round (since we lack a 3rd rounder and I dont feel we should use a 2nd on a goalie)?
Dickinson is a big lanky body who's a very complete player. He is very projectable, but not really dynamic in any way. Although he is a pretty good skater who chews up a lot of ice with a long, narrow stride. I don't think he's a top 6 center in the NHL, but I think he could be a top 6 winger, and he plays some LW. If he's allowed to just focus on getting in on the forecheck, creating chaos, and jamming at the front of the net, I think his hands are good enough where he could be an effective top 6 wing.

I don't know much about Hayden, but I think Lodge has a lot of untapped skill, I think he's more skilled than Dickinson. But he's very raw right now and I think just needs more experience to bring it out. At 6'2", and potentially with more to grow, I find it hard to believe he won't end up around 200 lbs. Even Huberdeau I think will end up at 185 or more. It may take a couple years, but Lodge would be a long term investment anyway. We could let him stay down for 4-5 years while he gets bigger, he won't be up anytime soon with all the kids we already have in our system.

I agree about using a pick on a goalie. This year's crop is pretty good, like J17 said the Euro class looks weak but the N.A. class is fairly strong. I think we could get a good one in the 4th or 5th. I think Eric Comrie in Tri-City in just as good as Fucale, lthough he's not as highly ranked in almost every list I've seen this year. I don't know if it's a mental thing that scouts know about that I'm not aware of, but physically, Comrie is just as good if not better IMO. He also has great size. Spencer Martin from Mississauga is also very good. That's the top tier IMO. Tristan Jarry in Edmonton is another rep of the strong WHL class. I think he's at the top of the next tier. Phillipe Desrosiers from the Q is pretty good too, he's lanky and athletic. Others from the WHL are Patrik Bartosak and Brendan Burke. Burke is Sean's son, he hasn't played a lot this season because he's behind Mac Carruth in Portland, who's one of the best goalies in the WHL. But supposedly he's very good and should be drafted this season. Eamon McAdam and Calvin Petersen are the two standouts from the USHL this season. I think McAdam is the better of the two. Jake Patterson from London is having a great season, he's actually 19 but he's solid.

Personally I like Petan, and if he pans out I could see him becoming something like a Briere. But we have a lot of small forward prospects. We really need to inject some size. I'd like to see us pick a couple of power forwards in the first couple rounds.

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02-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #165
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ISS Draft Rankings for February.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=11321

I like that Barkov has dropped a few places, he could still be there after 10th pick if the GMs are stupid enough not to take him.

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02-16-2013, 01:01 PM
  #166
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ISS Draft Rankings for February.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=11321

I like that Barkov has dropped a few places, he could still be there after 10th pick if the GMs are stupid enough not to take him.
McKinnon drops to #3...

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02-16-2013, 01:18 PM
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McKinnon drops to #3...
I read somewhere that he's been injured recently?

Also Barkov hasn't played in a while (until today) because of the national team tournament break, so that could explain his fall.

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02-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #168
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McKinnon drops to #3...
He'll be the first overall pick, unless a stacked offensive team wins the lotto and picks Jones. Nichushkin will not go ahead Drouin , Barkov Lindholm etc..

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02-16-2013, 03:14 PM
  #169
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ISS is horrible. There's no way on this good Earth that Nichushkin is a better prospect than MacKinnon. In Bobby Mac's survey of scouts Nichushkin was #10. And it's laughable that on any list Monahan is #8 and Lindholm #9. I trust CSS, McKeen's, Future Considerations, and Craig Button over ISS.

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02-16-2013, 03:16 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
ISS Draft Rankings for February.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=11321

I like that Barkov has dropped a few places, he could still be there after 10th pick if the GMs are stupid enough not to take him.
There's no way he's going to last past #5. No way at all.

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02-16-2013, 03:22 PM
  #171
SoupyFIN
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
There's no way he's going to last past #5. No way at all.
Hush you. Not likely, but..




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02-17-2013, 01:13 PM
  #172
Ghoste
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So for those that would like a top pick, are we shooting for at least Top 4? Which most likely is one of Jones, Mac, Drouin, and Barkov?

-ghoste


Last edited by Ghoste: 02-17-2013 at 08:50 PM.
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02-17-2013, 01:32 PM
  #173
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I wouldnt be upset with a sniper like Shinkaruk either. We could need a finisher and sniper like him. Really good skater too.

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02-17-2013, 01:46 PM
  #174
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I wouldnt be upset with a sniper like Shinkaruk either. We could need a finisher and sniper like him. Really good skater too.
Would he be in the Top 5?

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02-17-2013, 02:01 PM
  #175
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So for those that would like a top pick, are we shooting for at least Top 4? Which most likely is one of Jones, Mac, Droudin, and Barkov?

-ghoste
Sounds good to me.

Quote:
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Would he be in the Top 5?

-ghoste
He probably goes between 6-10.

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