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Old
02-15-2013, 11:31 AM
  #76
W75
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They should enjoy it.. Scoring goals! It should be fun. It's not easy, you must work hard, but when you're in the zone.. it's great, fun, everything just happens, everything clicks.

They're trying hard, but they're all locked. Someone should release them. Captain, coach, anybody.. i don't know.

It's the hardest thing in the world to turn it around. They need a wizard or a clown. Anything. Laugh.

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02-15-2013, 12:10 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Nsjohn130 View Post
get Heater in position to blast at the net if not for any other reason than to pepper the goalie with hard shots to give up rebounds.
Therein lies the problem with Heatley right now. It is HIS job to get in position to receive a pass and blast at the net and he is not getting himself to that open position any longer.

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02-15-2013, 12:35 PM
  #78
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Therein lies the problem with Heatley right now. It is HIS job to get in position to receive a pass and blast at the net and he is not getting himself to that open position any longer.
agreed, i think its another reason our PP isn't working either, because he just stands in front and doesn't move, which leads us stuck mainly on the right half wall working the same 2 or 3 plays every time. VERY easy to watch one game and figure us out. He needs to be moving his feet every game, and if hes not, atleast find the open area's.

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02-15-2013, 01:09 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
Therein lies the problem with Heatley right now. It is HIS job to get in position to receive a pass and blast at the net and he is not getting himself to that open position any longer.
I'm talking specifically on the PP, but 5v5 you are correct.

We have him parked in front of the net on the PP - I think he could be utilized differently.

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02-15-2013, 01:10 PM
  #80
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I want Heatley at the wall, not in front of the net. Feed him one timers.

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02-15-2013, 02:59 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Nsjohn130 View Post
This is actually true...it's been a while since I have thought of it. Koivu, Parise, Heatley, and Setoguchi (take a step back) in all honesty should be scoring a decent amount of goals. We have two guys who have shown to be able to step up and score in Clutter and Brodziak. All, except Parise, have been less than pleasing. I want to see driving to the net, and good passing. Heatley has over HALF the shots Parise has. SET HIM UP ON THE PP. We don't have anyone besides Brodin that will shoot on the PP from up top...get Heater in position to blast at the net if not for any other reason than to pepper the goalie with hard shots to give up rebounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nsjohn130 View Post
I'm talking specifically on the PP, but 5v5 you are correct.

We have him parked in front of the net on the PP - I think he could be utilized differently.
I would rather see Seto on the PP as the one to blast away from a distance, he has been working hard to make himself open for passes. I just don't think Heatley has that ability any longer and the only realistic thing he can do is set the parking brake and wait for a puck to end up in front of him. I am not one who thinks it is lack of effort or conditioning it just appears that his degradation as a player has been a swift one.

The other problem with Heatley away from the net on the PP is he is horrible handling the puck and if he ends up having to cover for a dman who has pinched in then it screams trouble going the other way.

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02-15-2013, 08:54 PM
  #82
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Before reading anyone's stuff:

No one is actually forechecking when they dump it in...with exception of ONE player it seems. Parise. The rest just dump it off and then wait for a change and then they wait for the puck to come back up. There is very little pressure from the offense unless they can somehow sustain a forecheck on the backboards while the rest change out and get into position. This is the biggest reason I think you are only seeing Koivu-Heater-Parise scoring goals more often than naught. They are the only line that will actually have either Koivu or Parise make a rush to hold it in while the 2nd line either comes out, or the rest of the top line can make it into the zone.

Yeo is troubling me at this point. I'm wondering if he even knows wtf he's doing sometimes I get discouraged as a fan when I see we are have an offensive zone icing and he is putting a 3rd or 4th line out there to take the faceoff just b/c it is their "turn." WGAF

The PP is terrible. I honestly, to this day, think they all just wait until Zach is open and pass it to him. As a guy who was just in the Finals with NJ....I'm wondering if he is regretting it.

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02-15-2013, 09:08 PM
  #83
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Rupp and ZK were down in there together pursuing the puck on numerous occasions. not the speediest duo but they were chasing guys.

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02-15-2013, 09:19 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
Rupp and ZK were down in there together pursuing the puck on numerous occasions. not the speediest duo but they were chasing guys.
What is sad then, is you're bottom line is producing a better forecheck than your "checking/energy" line is. A line that last year and year before that we lauded for persistent forechecking and putting pucks on net.

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02-15-2013, 10:13 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
What is sad then, is you're bottom line is producing a better forecheck than your "checking/energy" line is. A line that last year and year before that we lauded for persistent forechecking and putting pucks on net.
i agree with you. it's almost worse that only our fourth line guys are doing this...is it coaches decision or the other lines discretion that keeps it this way?

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02-16-2013, 10:31 AM
  #86
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I don't get it. We have plenty of guys who COULD be forechecking.

1st line Parise and Koivu, they do it already.

2nd line, well, Brodziak and Seto? And Granlund can do it, too.

3rd line we have Clutterbuck and Cullen, who can both feed Bouchard who is an expert playmaker still.

4th line, well, everyone, really. Mitchell, Rupp and Konopka are all good in what they do.


Should they try some puck possession game in top 6? Absolutely. There's no reason why Parise, Koivu, Granlund or even Seto can't bring it to the zone. Let them do it. 3rd and 4th can dump and chase all they want, they have the speed and grit to do it.

Only if it was that easy... *sigh*.

Still, I trust Yeo. The team is still green, and let's face it, Colorado utilized their rotten D very well against us, just like we did to many teams last year. That being said, I don't think Yeo can actually coach "skill plays", and it makes sense, really. Aeros were not exactly soft when he coached them, and last year we won many games thanks to our heart more than the superior skill and tactics. Now that we'd have the skill to win games, we can't utilize it because we play like underdogs and challengers.

Just my 0.02€ on the subject.

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02-16-2013, 10:51 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
i agree with you. it's almost worse that only our fourth line guys are doing this...is it coaches decision or the other lines discretion that keeps it this way?
I honestly think it has to do with the mentality of this team. People who we depend on to step up when we need them are not. Clutterbuck and Brodziak are the two I'm looking at. It is almost like they both said during the offseason "well we aren't needed to score anymore" and haven't been that force we expect from them. They just aren't playing like they have in years past. Whether or not that is b/c of the coaching or because they just mentally think they aren't needed now because of the signing and callups is something to be answered.

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02-16-2013, 11:29 AM
  #88
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For dump and chase to work you need to be quick and need to win the puck battles. And we're not doing that. Parise is often the first one in on the forecheck where he either has to win the puck back, or just hold it in long enough for Heatley or Koivu to catch up and help out. If you're not quick enough or don't have enough forecheckers, then the opposing defense can just pass between each other and start moving the back up the ice.

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02-16-2013, 11:57 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Puhis View Post
I don't get it. We have plenty of guys who COULD be forechecking.

1st line Parise and Koivu, they do it already.

2nd line, well, Brodziak and Seto? And Granlund can do it, too.

3rd line we have Clutterbuck and Cullen, who can both feed Bouchard who is an expert playmaker still.

4th line, well, everyone, really. Mitchell, Rupp and Konopka are all good in what they do.


Should they try some puck possession game in top 6? Absolutely. There's no reason why Parise, Koivu, Granlund or even Seto can't bring it to the zone. Let them do it. 3rd and 4th can dump and chase all they want, they have the speed and grit to do it.

Only if it was that easy... *sigh*.

Still, I trust Yeo. The team is still green, and let's face it, Colorado utilized their rotten D very well against us, just like we did to many teams last year. That being said, I don't think Yeo can actually coach "skill plays", and it makes sense, really. Aeros were not exactly soft when he coached them, and last year we won many games thanks to our heart more than the superior skill and tactics. Now that we'd have the skill to win games, we can't utilize it because we play like underdogs and challengers.

Just my 0.02 on the subject.
That's an interesting point I had not thought of. The problem is, I cannot immediately disagree... If this really is the case, it does not make Yeo look good.

Yeo really does seem to get outcoached sometimes. While heart and soul are always great, when you have skill, it needs to be used as well. For once the Wild actually have a good amount of skill.

One of my main impressions of Yeo, is that he is a complete control freak. That can be fine sometimes, but when you have talent and situations call for you to be flexible and clever, I don't know if he's up to that challenge. He doesn't seem to be one of those coaches who can bring out the best in all his players. It seems like it's his way and that's it. His was is not bad, it's just limited.

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02-16-2013, 12:58 PM
  #90
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The ideal situation would be an assistant coach who would be in charge of the tactics and PP. Yeo can handle lines with the assistant, as well as talking to the team and actually coaching the players.

He seems to have a God-given talent or just a very good sense of bringing most out of a bad team. That can (and will) come in handy when your team is riddled with injuries and you have to play the simple, scrappy games. No one can work wonders with what we had last winter, but to do what he did last fall was incredible. There was a reason why we compared Mike Yeo to God himself, because we sure as hell witnessed a miracle. We had no right to be there.

The thing is, the hockey we played back then? Very similar to the one we're playing now, but the guys last year were doing it better simply because, well, we had a team full of grinders and Heatley. Look at Nick Johnson. The guy was picked off waivers, a nobody essentially. He was playing in the first line with Dany ****ing all-star Heatley and Kyle Brodziak, who made himself a superstar inside this organization with his gritty, two-way play that produced goals and victories. That's the kind of players that suit Dany Heatley's current style, too, so it's not a mistake to play him with Zach Parise and Mikko Koivu.

And that said, he's not a bad coach. He just doesn't seem to have experience coaching a team that's actually expected to win. And when we think of his years playing hockey in the IHL with Houston Aeros, it's no wonder. He was a gritty guy himself. A fighter, if you will, but not a goon. And when you look at our team, it was like Mike Yeo made into a hockey team. He loves his grit guys, the fighters and the scrappers. The ones who do the silent work, the back-checkers and the hitters. And it's not a bad thing to be more scrappy then the opposing team, to play game seven in middle of November. However, it is a bad thing when you're trying to get scrappy with a team that actually has a chance of making the game seven in the middle of May.

I don't know Mike Yeo as a person, or even as a coach. I've seen interviews with him, I've seen him coach the Houston Aeros and the Minnesota Wild, and the product on the ice. I've watched him from a fans perspective, and I'm not a professional by any means. Hell, half of this board knows more about hockey than I do. But that said, when I look at the current Minnesota Wild, I see a great team on paper forced to play a style that doesn't suit them. Who knows, it might change. Maybe we see a Minnesota Wild that will out-possess, out-dangle and absolutely out-play the Wings on Sunday. Maybe it's a game that makes us regret that we ever thought that sacking Mike Yeo would be a good idea. But sadly, I don't see it happening. Mike Yeo doesn't seem like a stupid man, far from it, but he isn't a genius nor does he have the necessary experience to turn a team around like that.

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02-16-2013, 01:10 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puhis View Post
The ideal situation would be an assistant coach who would be in charge of the tactics and PP. Yeo can handle lines with the assistant, as well as talking to the team and actually coaching the players.

He seems to have a God-given talent or just a very good sense of bringing most out of a bad team. That can (and will) come in handy when your team is riddled with injuries and you have to play the simple, scrappy games. No one can work wonders with what we had last winter, but to do what he did last fall was incredible. There was a reason why we compared Mike Yeo to God himself, because we sure as hell witnessed a miracle. We had no right to be there.

The thing is, the hockey we played back then? Very similar to the one we're playing now, but the guys last year were doing it better simply because, well, we had a team full of grinders and Heatley. Look at Nick Johnson. The guy was picked off waivers, a nobody essentially. He was playing in the first line with Dany ****ing all-star Heatley and Kyle Brodziak, who made himself a superstar inside this organization with his gritty, two-way play that produced goals and victories. That's the kind of players that suit Dany Heatley's current style, too, so it's not a mistake to play him with Zach Parise and Mikko Koivu.

And that said, he's not a bad coach. He just doesn't seem to have experience coaching a team that's actually expected to win. And when we think of his years playing hockey in the IHL with Houston Aeros, it's no wonder. He was a gritty guy himself. A fighter, if you will, but not a goon. And when you look at our team, it was like Mike Yeo made into a hockey team. He loves his grit guys, the fighters and the scrappers. The ones who do the silent work, the back-checkers and the hitters. And it's not a bad thing to be more scrappy then the opposing team, to play game seven in middle of November. However, it is a bad thing when you're trying to get scrappy with a team that actually has a chance of making the game seven in the middle of May.

I don't know Mike Yeo as a person, or even as a coach. I've seen interviews with him, I've seen him coach the Houston Aeros and the Minnesota Wild, and the product on the ice. I've watched him from a fans perspective, and I'm not a professional by any means. Hell, half of this board knows more about hockey than I do. But that said, when I look at the current Minnesota Wild, I see a great team on paper forced to play a style that doesn't suit them. Who knows, it might change. Maybe we see a Minnesota Wild that will out-possess, out-dangle and absolutely out-play the Wings on Sunday. Maybe it's a game that makes us regret that we ever thought that sacking Mike Yeo would be a good idea. But sadly, I don't see it happening. Mike Yeo doesn't seem like a stupid man, far from it, but he isn't a genius nor does he have the necessary experience to turn a team around like that.
Well said. This is the vibe I get from Yeo too. He has shown great psychological eye and talent to motivate and get the most out of many players individually, but I have started to question his tactical prowess. He is a rookie head coach and maybe he improves with years. Right now his toolbox seems a bit lacking. I think he can coach this team into playoffs but if next year the play on ice is still as ineffective and uncreative as right now, maybe it's best to hire an experienced coach who can take us to the next level. There should be some available later when teams start to fire their underachieving head coaches.

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02-16-2013, 01:20 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FVM View Post
Well said. This is the vibe I get from Yeo too. He has shown great psychological eye and talent to motivate and get the most out of many players individually, but I have started to question his tactical prowess. He is a rookie head coach and maybe he improves with years. Right now his toolbox seems a bit lacking. I think he can coach this team into playoffs but if next year the play on ice is still as ineffective and uncreative as right now, maybe it's best to hire an experienced coach who can take us to the next level. There should be some available later when teams start to fire their underachieving head coaches.
Yep, and this makes the most sense, too. And maybe we see Yeo really light up in the playoffs, like he did when he coached Aeros to the Calder Cup finals where they had no business being in. Remember, part of the reason he was hired was because he knows the ex-Houston kids so well.

That said, I think he should swap places with... Rick Wilson, maybe? The guy has been an assistant coach since 1992, he sure as hell deserves his chance. Yeo would be a great assistant coach while also doing the on-ice drills and player motivation. If we had a tactical genius next to Yeo it would be fantastic, but even a more experienced coach could work wonders to this team. It won't be an overnight change though, and maybe we won't see the results for another month, but it would be a long-term improvement.

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02-16-2013, 01:34 PM
  #93
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Before reading anyone's stuff:

No one is actually forechecking when they dump it in...with exception of ONE player it seems. Parise. The rest just dump it off and then wait for a change and then they wait for the puck to come back up. There is very little pressure from the offense unless they can somehow sustain a forecheck on the backboards while the rest change out and get into position. This is the biggest reason I think you are only seeing Koivu-Heater-Parise scoring goals more often than naught. They are the only line that will actually have either Koivu or Parise make a rush to hold it in while the 2nd line either comes out, or the rest of the top line can make it into the zone.

Yeo is troubling me at this point. I'm wondering if he even knows wtf he's doing sometimes I get discouraged as a fan when I see we are have an offensive zone icing and he is putting a 3rd or 4th line out there to take the faceoff just b/c it is their "turn." WGAF

The PP is terrible. I honestly, to this day, think they all just wait until Zach is open and pass it to him. As a guy who was just in the Finals with NJ....I'm wondering if he is regretting it.
Hard to fore-check a guy near his blue-line or in the neutral zone. Hard to fore-check a guy behind his net. Hard to fore-check after a 1 minute shift. Its puck management that is leading to our lack of a fore-check. Its not like they're sitting back afraid to fore-check, guys are already moving out before they can get in there, and that's because the players are not getting the pucks to the proper locations to set up a fore-check. As has already been brought up multiple times, some speed would help, but better puck management would help significantly more.

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02-16-2013, 01:41 PM
  #94
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Hard to fore-check a guy near his blue-line or in the neutral zone. Hard to fore-check a guy behind his net. Hard to fore-check after a 1 minute shift. Its puck management that is leading to our lack of a fore-check. Its not like they're sitting back afraid to fore-check, guys are already moving out before they can get in there, and that's because the players are not getting the pucks to the proper locations to set up a fore-check. As has already been brought up multiple times, some speed would help, but better puck management would help significantly more.
Correct. Forecheck is all about putting pressure to the defense in their own zone. Currently, we just have a guy or two putting their stick to the passing lane, which is better than nothing but quite easy to avoid.

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02-16-2013, 10:30 PM
  #95
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All I know is Yeo isn't helping himself when you're putting Brodziak and Cullen and Clutterbuck in on an offensive faceoff after an icing call. I was actually shocked he rolled the first line out against COL the other night.

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02-16-2013, 10:47 PM
  #96
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We need to get to the net better and absolutely shoot the puck way more from anywhere more then what we have been doing, two things that are annoying me the most. We have the talent to score, just have to have the willingness come now.

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02-24-2013, 10:54 AM
  #97
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Organization wide this is a problem..CREATING OFFENCE.
In Minnesota, Heatley, Parise, Bouchard, Seto, Koivu, Granlund etc etc are all based on their body of work in their careers are under performing offensively.
In Houston, Bulmer,Phillips, Fontaine, Rau etc etc are in the same boat. All with a great track record of being able to creat offence--even guys like Peterson when you compare what he had done in other stops in the AHL, are not doing what is expected.
Watched Houston , Friday night and Minny last night, and counted 87 times with full control of puck in the neutral zone, they turned over possesion by dumping the puck in......
Watched Montreal the other night, a real puck control team---intersting to see the difference.
Thoughts, opinions ??

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02-24-2013, 11:07 AM
  #98
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I think that Yeo's system better suits last years team. Grind it out, wear down your opponet, and win all the puck battles.. But, now that we have skill it just isn't working, I think we are much more suited for a more offensive/skill style. Just IMO.

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02-24-2013, 11:52 AM
  #99
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i thought we added players who could score. at some point do we blame the system?

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02-24-2013, 11:55 AM
  #100
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Yeo's line juggling is hindering the development of chemistry. That combined with limited training camp for all these new players shows IMO.

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