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Shake-up?

View Poll Results: oh
fire the coach 29 22.31%
make a trade 33 25.38%
both 52 40.00%
neither? 16 12.31%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-16-2013, 02:05 PM
  #101
sjshrky27
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I like Marleau but agree it might be time for him to go. More for his sake really. He's just not the player he was a few years back. Patty has it in him, but hes too complacent.

A change of scenery would do him well.

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02-16-2013, 02:12 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
I like Marleau but agree it might be time for him to go. More for his sake really. He's just not the player he was a few years back. Patty has it in him, but hes too complacent.

A change of scenery would do him well.
Let's blame Marleau . . . again. I hope they actually do trade him so the problems get worse and then I will be back with a vengeance with the "I told you so's". I don't care for Boyle and am not in love with JT. But I am fully aware of what their absence would mean in the immediate future.

I keep getting the sense that many in the "I hate/don't like Marleau" camp are into the same trite old phrases that I outlined above. What is interesting in this recent stretch is that he is one of the few that has been doing exactly what the conservative camp wants. Fronting the goalie, battling well on the boards, and saving quite a few errant passes by preparing for the inaccuracies that come from the passer. But he keeps an even keel which grinds some of you. A team will wear out quickly if they fall apart over every bad game and take out on those around them. The Sharks consider themselves lucky to have him because he does get "it".


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02-16-2013, 02:23 PM
  #103
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A "mini-rebuild" would be awesome and take a year or so. The west, especially in the division is getting younger and faster. They could ship out some UFAs this year, get some prospects and pics in return, try for some free agents in the summer.
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seriously LZ. You'd be spending $6,000/year in season tickets regardless of how they perfrom. So they are not costing you $6000 by going into a rebuild. They are costing you the pleasure of hoping for a championship if they rebuild, not $6,000. Maybee you'd rather spend the $6,000 on something else rather than watch a rebuild, but it doesnt' cost you $6000 if the team blows up the roster and goes for a rebuild.
Of course I'm still gonna fork out cash during a rebuild / mini-rebuild. I'm just saying that it's not a very attractive option when you're laying out your hard earned cash. "Blow it up" is a lot easier to say when your not looking at forking out that cash for what would probably be some bad games into the foreseeable future.

One of
the main reasons to get season tickets is for the PO's. I could save a lot of money just paying to see the good games when I want to see them. There are other perks with season tickets, like the same seat for every game, but it sucks paying that bill thinking your team probably won't even make the PO's.

That said, if that's what the Sharks decide they need to do I'll be there. If this is how the rest of the season is going to look we might as well.

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02-16-2013, 02:35 PM
  #104
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Somebody mentioned vision of the team. It's there, but it is a failing vision. Snow White and the 7 Dwarves. JT will lead us. Not happening. Hockey is a team game and is integrated.

Robinson for HC is a joke. He was on intermission promoting the same tired stuff about dirty goals. The last two 5on5 goals for the Sharks were transition chances. They are right about execution on breakouts, but it is the breakout strategy. Watch the wingers cling the boards to get the hard arounds. Look at Chicago where they pulled their wingers just off the boards and had a first option of direct passes rather than hard arounds. And the wingers start the breakout with a big battle just to get it over their own blueline and you wonder why the Sharks are slow through the neutral zone . . . Please . . . . And when they do get it off the boards for a direct pass, watch your little darling Vlasic throw the puck into Pavelski's skates on a clear pass and then follow the opponent into the Sharks' zone.

Watch everyone and their brother throw soft passes to the slot when their isn't a teal jersey in the vicinity. Maybe they should be trying bad angle shots. Watch no look passes go directly to the opposition (Gomez).

Their PK works but it is a very conservative strategy. I doubt that they will have even one shortie in the entire season if they continue with the strategy. Very short PK shifts and no forwards pressuring the point. The strategy works for the Sharks in that it covers skating deficiencies with shorter distances to travel. Winners take risks.

When things go south for any team, the temptation is to go more conservative. Things like execution are not conservative, but what we are seeing on the ice indicates choices that are being made from pure conservatism. Winning coaches give all of their players some license not just a select few. Losers keep going back to "win battles", "dirty goals", etc., the same old trite phrases that we have been hearing for eons. Those phrases translate to excuses for lack of vision ultimately mean that they don't know the answers.

And BTW, look at JT's passing outside of the offensive zone. I have seen quite a few that looks like he is catching Vlasic disease. It looks like it is an issue of moving feet and the closing defender is pressuring him into mistakes.

It's pretty grim, but changing personnel whether they be players or coaches is not the answer. The answer starts with vision and has to start higher than with what we see on the ice.
Good post.

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02-16-2013, 02:52 PM
  #105
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I doubt that they will have even one shortie in the entire season if they continue with the strategy. Very short PK shifts and no forwards pressuring the point.
Wait, what? Am I watching different games?

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02-16-2013, 02:58 PM
  #106
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This doesn't make a lick of sense... Defense isn't the problem at this point. The sharks were 1st in the league in GAA a couple games ago. They still have to be top 3. Goals for is the biggest problem facing this team. Whether it's chemistry or not enough shooters or whatever. They need to put the puck in the net. That's a forward problem more than anything. Most games they've had enough chances they just have terrible aim.
Doesn't make a lick of sense? The defense can't move the puck. Haven't you ever heard offense starts with defense? Watch the Sharks struggle to get the puck out cleanly out of their own zone. Watch Burns and Braun, if they aren't allowed to skate the puck out odds are they will either turn the puck over, pass to a forward with no options, ice it, rim it around the boards (which often leads to a turnover), or the old dump and chase routine. Murray... just forget about it. Demers looks like a shadow of his former self, Stuart isn't all that great at it either. The best Blueliner (Beside Boyle) at moving the puck out of their zone is Vlasic and it isn't even close... Even Vlasic is only pretty good at the slot pass. Part of the problem is so far the Sharks have changed how they match their blue line. So Boyle plays against far weaker comp now.

So yes their GAA is low, but the way the blue line has been playing they can't really get anything going. This offense is what dump and chase looks like. Horrible.


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Old
02-16-2013, 02:58 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
Wait, what? Am I watching different games?
Please.

They are pressuring the entries and they are only near the blueline if it is a short entry. They are not on the point until the puck is passed back to the blueline. Once the opponent sets up, the forwards stay below the top of the circles until the pass goes to the point. The gap on the points after the puck is in the zone is huge. Going from the top of the circle to the point is not pressure!

I have counted. They have had exactly 2 shortie chances since the start of the season.

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02-16-2013, 03:00 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Please.

They are pressuring the entries and they are only near the blueline if it is a short entry. They are not on the point until the puck is passed back to the blueline. Once the opponent sets up, the forwards stay below the top of the circles until the pass goes to the point. The gap on the points after the puck is in the zone is huge. Going from the top of the circle to the point is not pressure!

I have counted. They have had exactly 2 shortie chances since the start of the season.
Yeah I'm surprised the PK is so effective with what basically is a slightly modified passive box. I thought I remembered them pressuring at the beginning of the season but back to normal now.

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02-16-2013, 03:10 PM
  #109
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Bringing in a new coach is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
THIS. Idj, I think maybe the flu really did a number on the Sharks. Perhaps they will turn it around when everyone feels right.

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02-16-2013, 03:14 PM
  #110
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Am I the only one who doesn't want a rebuild? Rebuilding by no means means this team will be a powerhouse again like Pittsburgh/Chicago etc. There's an equal chance we end up with the Islanders or Blue Jackets. I have a pretty good feeling that the same people screaming to trade Patty and Jumbo would be the same people screaming "how come this team sucks!!" when they're rebuilding forever.

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02-16-2013, 03:14 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
Yeah I'm surprised the PK is so effective with what basically is a slightly modified passive box. I thought I remembered them pressuring at the beginning of the season but back to normal now.
Part of the success is that when the puck goes to the sideboards they set up a picket fence and it is very low. Almost no cross-ice passes against. They also collapse the weakside forward in a big way so a cross ice at the blueline can be very dangerous.

My issue is that the whole team philosophy is geared to defense. A bottom feeder strategy. You win by outscoring the opponent not just by preventing goals. If goals against prevention is preventing your own team from scoring, it is going nowhere. A team can make the playoffs that way, but they won't win it all (not anymore).

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02-16-2013, 03:16 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post

My issue is that the whole team philosophy is geared to defense. A bottom feeder strategy. You win by outscoring the opponent not just by preventing goals. If goals against prevention is preventing your own team from scoring, it is going nowhere. A team can make the playoffs that way, but they won't win it all (not anymore).
So we need Laviolette's "SCORE GOALS AND **** EVERYTHING ELSE" strategy. I'd love that to be honest.

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02-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #113
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Part of the success is that when the puck goes to the sideboards they set up a picket fence and it is very low. Almost no cross-ice passes against. They also collapse the weakside forward in a big way so a cross ice at the blueline can be very dangerous.

My issue is that the whole team philosophy is geared to defense. A bottom feeder strategy. You win by outscoring the opponent not just by preventing goals. If goals against prevention is preventing your own team from scoring, it is going nowhere. A team can make the playoffs that way, but they won't win it all (not anymore).
The problem is it wasn't a bottom feeder strategy last year. The Sharks are just doing what everyone else is doing...

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02-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Please.

They are pressuring the entries and they are only near the blueline if it is a short entry. They are not on the point until the puck is passed back to the blueline. Once the opponent sets up, the forwards stay below the top of the circles until the pass goes to the point. The gap on the points after the puck is in the zone is huge. Going from the top of the circle to the point is not pressure!

I have counted. They have had exactly 2 shortie chances since the start of the season.
They may have only had 2 chances but they are routinely forcing the point man to make a play and gotten a stick on the puck with regularity, anytime that happens it has a chance to be a shorthanded chance. I've seen them pass up a few possible shorthanded chances as well in favor of the safe play.

I don't see us putting much less pressure than the teams that are putting the most pressure, at least as far as pressuring the pointmen with the forward. When they do it, and what the other players do may be different, but our results are not a fluke. The other team is simply not getting point bombs off, almost ever. That doesn't happen if you're not pressuring the point.

I'm not really sure what you're expecting. Do you want our guys riding the pointmen and letting the low forwards run wild?

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02-16-2013, 03:20 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
So we need Laviolette's "SCORE GOALS AND **** EVERYTHING ELSE" strategy. I'd love that to be honest.
It's fun to watch, at least.

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02-16-2013, 03:38 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
The problem is it wasn't a bottom feeder strategy last year. The Sharks are just doing what everyone else is doing...
There was an article last year about Sutter taking over the Kings. He eased up on the license and also provided them with breakout strategies. He backed off on criticism of failed breakouts that were a result of taking chances with his strategy. That is offense not defense. The Kings were heavy into the defensive strategy with Murray. The resulting hodgepodge after Sutter came in combined to form the perfect storm.

The year that Boston won with a defense first team was when they had Ramsay and Julien chose or was forced to choose to cut loose with guys like Seguin and Marchand who were certainly not playing defense first. Last year they got more conservative and paid the price. Their blueline is beyond conservative.

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02-16-2013, 03:44 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
So we need Laviolette's "SCORE GOALS AND **** EVERYTHING ELSE" strategy. I'd love that to be honest.
If they are gonna lose might as well make it entertaining.

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02-16-2013, 03:45 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Am I the only one who doesn't want a rebuild? Rebuilding by no means means this team will be a powerhouse again like Pittsburgh/Chicago etc. There's an equal chance we end up with the Islanders or Blue Jackets. I have a pretty good feeling that the same people screaming to trade Patty and Jumbo would be the same people screaming "how come this team sucks!!" when they're rebuilding forever.
You're absolutely right.

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02-16-2013, 03:51 PM
  #119
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And BTW, look at JT's passing outside of the offensive zone. I have seen quite a few that looks like he is catching Vlasic disease. It looks like it is an issue of moving feet and the closing defender is pressuring him into mistakes.
It might be a little more serious than Vlasic disease. I think JT's passing has been miserable since the Phoenix game, which is also around the time I noticed Marleau seriously gassed every time he pulled up short of the net on the rush.

I wouldn't underestimate the spread of an actual flu through the lineup over the last 10 days or so, and this year's strain is nasty. Boyle, Gomez, and Desjardins admitted to or were named by McLellan as having "the bug" and missed games because of it.

I'm no fan of Kurz, mostly because he always reminds me of waking up in a jail cell after a Jägermeister binge. But he did point this out earlier in the week:

"Instead of isolating players that are said to have this bug, though, Gomez and Desjardins were around the team on Tuesday at Bridgestone Arena." [http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/kevin...-defining-flu]

I think the team slump is related to this flu issue, or possibly Hasso Plattner plans to move the team to Heidelberg.

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02-16-2013, 03:54 PM
  #120
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I think they should keep Joe Thornton but trade marleau for a few guys. Seeing joe fight the other night shows a lot that he still wants to fight for us to win. As much as i enjoy marleau's goals hes just too quiet. I remember seeing him in last years playoffs, right before he stepped onto the ice he pulled a tug on on his chest around his diaphram. He doesnt want to be a shark inside. At least thats what i got from his body language.

And is it just me or do the guys look straight up tired on the ice?

they just look lethargic, i wonder how much tmac is working them in practice?

They really do need drew remenda behind that bench. He has soooooo much passion for them even after all the dissappointments.

Marleau just needs a new team though for reals... I dont believe he can win it with the sharks. It would be good for him.
-I would hardly say it looked like Joe wanted to fight, in fact the only time he has looked any more disinterested...well has been the last 5+ games.
-The whole team minus Wingels and sometimes Sheppard and Demers have looked like they haven't sharpened their skates in months, seriously that's what it looks like.
-We don't want Remenda behind the bench, I'm with everyone else, go with some combo of Robinson/Johnson as the head coach. TMac's situation is very similar to Boudreau in Washington, started his HC career with a bang but has not been able to control the team consistently; unlike the Caps we have some good hockey minds that could takeover right away.

If we are going back to the Thornton/Marleau debate, I would rather trade Thornton.
Marleau's play isn't concerning me as much as Jumbo, almost all elite wingers are streaky, and honestly we are expecting it at this point. It is more troubling when the captain of the team is unable to elevate his game time and time again.
Pavelski and Couture are now at the level to play a 1a/1b center role. I'm almost at the point where I want to see the team handed over to them, Pavs is a true competitor and leader and they are misusing his talents sticking him on Thornton's wing to catch pretty passes. Jumbo also would fetch a better return and is more likely to waive his ntc.
idk who knows, he and this team are so damn streaky in a few weeks there will probably be a "Thornton is a lock for the HoF" thread on the main boards...it's like that Ratt song.

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02-16-2013, 04:12 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Let's blame Marleau . . . again. I hope they actually do trade him so the problems get worse and then I will be back with a vengeance with the "I told you so's". I don't care for Boyle and am not in love with JT. But I am fully aware of what their absence would mean in the immediate future.

I keep getting the sense that many in the "I hate/don't like Marleau" camp are into the same trite old phrases that I outlined above. What is interesting in this recent stretch is that he is one of the few that has been doing exactly what the conservative camp wants. Fronting the goalie, battling well on the boards, and saving quite a few errant passes by preparing for the inaccuracies that come from the passer. But he keeps an even keel which grinds some of you. A team will wear out quickly if they fall apart over every bad game and take out on those around them. The Sharks consider themselves lucky to have him because he does get "it".
Marleau is definitely not to blame of late and this comes form someone who has been called a Marleau hater many times.

I happen to think he's come out of the lockout with a better disposition and seem to be skating harder and playing harder. Yes, there was a game or 2 where he wasn't but you can't ask for too much. He was good last year too.

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02-16-2013, 04:29 PM
  #122
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On the PK I've noticed it seems like they are running a collapsed box. I think what's making it more effective this year is that they're blocking shots and Niemi is playing better.

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02-16-2013, 04:34 PM
  #123
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So we need Laviolette's "SCORE GOALS AND **** EVERYTHING ELSE" strategy. I'd love that to be honest.
They need a team philosophy that is not afraid to buck the trends. There are probably 20-25 teams that pursue the same old/same old. It takes a lot more courage to buck the trends than it does to follow the herd. In a sense that can filter down to the team. You want players that aren't afraid to go for it and it should result in harder play all around. I am sort of sorry for Philly as they lost most of the mad bombers (stretch passers) on the blueline which really kills Lavi's strategy.

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02-16-2013, 04:34 PM
  #124
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For those talking about Remenda behind the bench don't understand what his job is. His job is to comment on the game and explain what is happening so that people who have been watching for years or watching for 10 minutes can understand what is happening. When he says "I don't know why they don't do X." He's not coming up with some radical strategy that the coaching staff hasn't thought about.

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02-16-2013, 04:35 PM
  #125
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For those talking about Remenda behind the bench don't understand what his job is. His job is to comment on the game and explain what is happening so that people who have been watching for years or watching for 10 minutes can understand what is happening. When he says "I don't know why they don't do X." He's not coming up with some radical strategy that the coaching staff hasn't thought about.
He either grabs it from the current staff or falls back on the failed strategies of the 90s.

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