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Old
02-16-2013, 02:25 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by nyiguy21 View Post
To your point at the top, you don't think there is going to be a ton of support from Brookylnites? I view the Nets as a good parallel and they were basically dropped into there from even further away. They are at about 95% attendance this year and their merchandise sales have skyrocketed. Granted that basketball is(and will be) more popular than hockey, but you don't think that Brooklyn is going to come out and support a new local team? I don't live on LI so I can't attribute to the venom between the two, but even if Brooklyn alone was to support the Isles, that is a huge city by itself.

For your last part, I think all of that blocking you were talking about is why a new NVMC was never going to happen.
I think the Nets having a head start will benefit the Islanders.

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02-16-2013, 02:29 PM
  #52
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"His NHL team lost more than $10 million last year, a source with direct knowledge of its finances said, more than in any recent year.

The team has a roughly $75 million loan that comes due at the end of next season."
So they were losing $2M a year....or not. A $7M loan coming due? What happened to Wang being, "a billionaire?"

I don't buy the story. Attention grab to distract fans from an awful game being played.

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02-16-2013, 02:30 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by lost35 View Post
I knew it

I knew as soon as this move to Brooklyn was announced, Wang was going to sell

That is why he moved to Brooklyn

Wang is a piece of crap

I was always a defender of him

but basically he was the guy who was responsible for moving the team from Long Island
You lose all credibility there. You can thank the idiots who've been elected in Nassau for the move to Brooklyn.

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02-16-2013, 02:35 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
Interesting insight. While I think this story may be true, wouldn't it be more beneficial for Wang to sell the Isles to the Barclays owners AFTER 2015 at a higher price?
Yes and no. The isles were not marketable due to the arena situation. Remember, Bettman does not/did not want the Isles relocated. Without the Barclays deal and the ongoing Nassau saga, the team was stuck in the mud.

By signing the Barclays deal NOW and stating it was bullet proof (or whatever term he used) was a signal to the market - the arena situation is no longer an issue to sell the team. Add to that, he just plopped the team in NYC which is hugely attractive to a purchaser.

By selling now, Wang avoids that loan that is due and pretty much solidifies his "legacy" as the man that "saved the Isles" and kept them in NY. He also gets the valuation of having the Barclays deal added to the bottom line.

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02-16-2013, 02:38 PM
  #55
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Wang selling the team would be single greatest thing for the Islanders since John Tavares

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Old
02-16-2013, 02:39 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
So they were losing $2M a year....or not. A $7M loan coming due? What happened to Wang being, "a billionaire?"

I don't buy the story. Attention grab to distract fans from an awful game being played.
Has anyone ever validated that the Isles were actually losing $20 million per year that was floated for years by the isles, local media, Botta, NHL media, etc.?

That number was ALWAYS suspect. It was always poor Wang he's bleeding money at $20 million per year, help the guy. BS

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02-16-2013, 02:39 PM
  #57
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https://twitter.com/BDGallof/status/302814164517285889

In speaking to people: if he gets price he'll sell but not below. When loan comes due perhaps Ratner a partner? Or someone else #isles



https://twitter.com/BDGallof/status/302815006372790272

Source sees more reality in having partner, not a sale #isles




https://twitter.com/BDGallof/status/302825120123203584

Was told belief is more like how Wilson's got capital for Mets.




https://twitter.com/BDGallof/status/302825576861937665

will add to fan notions of Wang out of picture but believe this not case. Wishful thinking & projections driving this instead of fact #isles




https://twitter.com/BDGallof/status/302866332125384707

Those around Charles doubt truly for sale. belief has always wanted to give team to son one day #isles


Some tweets earlier today for BD Gallof.

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Old
02-16-2013, 02:42 PM
  #58
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You lose all credibility there. You can thank the idiots who've been elected in Nassau for the move to Brooklyn.
You can't have a myopic opine here.

Murray presented the law on the books for zoning.....but she could have handled it better. Nassau GOP fought to have a massive overdevelopment that would hurt localities as much as they fought the LHP. Nassau Dems fought a bidding idea that Wang would be not paying into with the referendum.....the reason it lost as Wang would let overruns be paid by tax payers, not the beneficiary of the deal - Wang.

And Wang would not negotiate, the size down he proposed actually added more square footage to the plan with his two towers instead of one idea. Wang, again, would not negotiate with Murray or anyone with his "take it or leave it" stance.


The move to Brooklyn was made because someone who would not negotiate painted his own wagon and finally decided to take all his toys and go home. The blame, not entirely but quite thoroughly, rests with one Charles Sit Down And Shut Up Wang.

And if Wang sells, the move to Brooklyn is much, much nicer to this fan and others. I might just pay to see them play again!!!!!!!!!

{He'll be dead before I go and pay money to see them live at home again, mark my word - ten plus years and counting since that ****eating ****bucket ever got one dime from me}

But, again, I doubt it's true. He's not gonna sell.

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Old
02-16-2013, 02:43 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by IslesBeBack View Post
So let me get this straight.

Rumor last year of investment group with Lofontaine as head looking to purchase Islanders.

Wang in talks with.. INVESTMENT GROUP.. to buy the Isles.

Said INVESTMENT GROUP had a say in Barclays Center.

Yeah, I think we can start to connect the dots. Let's hope this gets done so we can back the money truck up to Corey Perry.
I hope a group with LaFontaine buys the team, then he can finally be treated like the great Islander he was, instead of having his number handed out to the likes of Marty Reasoner.

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02-16-2013, 02:44 PM
  #60
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Gallof thinks Wang would more likely want to give the team to his son, Kim Wang Un.

The other thing that strikes me as odd is that the fact that the Isles are being so especially cheap this year. And yeah, I know Wang is usually always cheap...except when he first bought the team. And the move to Brooklyn was unveiled in late-October...but I would think that Wang had a pretty good idea that it was going to happen in the months leading up. So with greener pastures approaching, I would've expected Wang to try and get Snow to make a bigger splash in the offseason and not $1M for Brad Boyes and no significant trade rumors. Then you've got the Tim Thomas trade...a situation where we don't have to pay the guy a dime, but we get to operate way under the cap. There will be plenty of cap space available this summer for a 2-3 key UFAs or via trade. All that space with a very young group of prospects...that ought to be attractive to a potential owner.

So it's either Wang is being his usual cheap self, even after the Brooklyn announcement...or he's trying to get team expenses down in hopes to make team more attractive. The fact that he has literally been laying low since Barclays announcement, raises suspicion for me.

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02-16-2013, 02:44 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Homeland Security View Post
You lose all credibility there. You can thank the idiots who've been elected in Nassau for the move to Brooklyn.
Disagree, IMO there is plenty of blame to go around and the problems go back way further than wang, kate murray and the current politicians. "Idiots" may be your unbiased labeling. Ownership and a poor front office ran this team into the ground for many years. If this team had made the playoffs semi regularly, spent money on the team and not alienated fans and media (lafontaine, botta, on and on) it never would have gotten to this... all we have gotten for over 25 years is sporadic surprise seasons and none in 10 years +, the polticians definitely contributed to this in a big way but ownership is far from blame.. the lighthouse project was a business venture for additional development and not a hockey one, or else there would have been compromise from wang.

Ultimately Wang made the final decision after years of poor choices (on and off the ice) and not being able to evaluate and deal with the political enviroment.
Wang is #2 on my blame list after Kate Murray..

good luck in brooklyn, thanks for being so inclusive...


Last edited by 19 in a row: 02-16-2013 at 02:55 PM.
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Old
02-16-2013, 02:45 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Has anyone ever validated that the Isles were actually losing $20 million per year that was floated for years by the isles, local media, Botta, NHL media, etc.?

That number was ALWAYS suspect. It was always poor Wang he's bleeding money at $20 million per year, help the guy. BS
No one. Internet banter and Charles claim, the same Charles who committed stock earnings fraud.

Forbes posted their losses, never included Coliseum revenues after Nassau deal. $2OM is a red herring and always was.

But some prefer the $2OM drama from him over an analysis by the world's leading financial and investment periodical.

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02-16-2013, 02:48 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Yes and no. The isles were not marketable due to the arena situation. Remember, Bettman does not/did not want the Isles relocated. Without the Barclays deal and the ongoing Nassau saga, the team was stuck in the mud.

By signing the Barclays deal NOW and stating it was bullet proof (or whatever term he used) was a signal to the market - the arena situation is no longer an issue to sell the team. Add to that, he just plopped the team in NYC which is hugely attractive to a purchaser.

By selling now, Wang avoids that loan that is due and pretty much solidifies his "legacy" as the man that "saved the Isles" and kept them in NY. He also gets the valuation of having the Barclays deal added to the bottom line.
Yes....and add:

Wang sells before the income figures of a struggling team evading the cap floor reports to a 14,500 seat arena out of the fanbase central location.

$300M now? Take it.....the number will slide if we're bringing Islander Chipotle hockey to Brooklyn's smaller arena in Ranger territory, would it not?

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02-16-2013, 02:50 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 19 in a row View Post
This... so I can add him to my list with Kate Murray and the rest of the politicians. I ran into a friend on the train the other day who I hadn't seen in 20 years. He was a huge Islander fan in the day, said he will no longer root for them but become a Ranger fan since they will be the most convenient for him and can't root for an Islander team in Brooklyn since it will no longer be our Islanders.. two years ago this would have been blasphemy, now I don't think it will be so crazy.. me, i will most likely stop following pro hockey when they move.. I have bled blue and orange through the lean years, now I still go to every game(bought my season tix before the move was announced) but the feeling is not the same... ownership and the politicians have given us the middle finger for too long.

So you're going to stop following hockey because the team is moving 20 miles west? I moved 1200 miles away and follow the Isles more now than I ever did before. The feeling doesn't change. The only difference is a new building and a few more miles drive. Now if you said you were fed up cause Wang is a cheap SOB, that I can buy, but because the team is moving a few miles? Damn! Ask Thrasher fans how they felt losing a team all together or Winnipeg fans the first time their team left. Wang could of sold and the Isles could have been known as the Kansas City Tornados, but instead a 20 mile move allows them to remain the New York Islanders and the best part, the name is still true to a location.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RealSturat View Post
THE TEAM IS MOVING 20 MILES AWAY, you are bailing as a fan and you have a friend who is now "conveniently" a Rangers fan now. Let me guess. He was a Mets fan in the 80s too and is a Yankees fan now. Weather is always nice where he goes apparently.

I have lived OFF Long Island since 1989 and I still and will always bleed orange in blue. As long as the team remained in the metro NY area, I will be a fan.

Don't think I could have easily become a Penguins fan here in Cleveland? I could have, but I didn't. If I had I would have rooted for a champion already. As a Mets, Jets, and Isles fan, that would have been nice. I have driven 8 hours from Cleveland just to go to playoff games. 450 miles. Sorry the 20 miles is too much for you.

I am not happy with Wang. The cap circumvention and cheap **** since the last playoff run has been disgusting. I am pissed at politicians and the absolute debacle of how this team, once the pride of the Island, was handled.

In the end, this team could have been in KC or Seattle. But it is still in NY. End result, better days are ahead and I can't wait to see it come to fruition.
I follow the Isles harder now that I am further away. I appreciate them more being away from NY. Being away fro my team even made me appreciate the sport more and I picked up a team B in the Lightning.

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02-16-2013, 03:02 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
You can't have a myopic opine here.

Murray presented the law on the books for zoning.....but she could have handled it better. Nassau GOP fought to have a massive overdevelopment that would hurt localities as much as they fought the LHP. Nassau Dems fought a bidding idea that Wang would be not paying into with the referendum.....the reason it lost as Wang would let overruns be paid by tax payers, not the beneficiary of the deal - Wang.

And Wang would not negotiate, the size down he proposed actually added more square footage to the plan with his two towers instead of one idea. Wang, again, would not negotiate with Murray or anyone with his "take it or leave it" stance.


The move to Brooklyn was made because someone who would not negotiate painted his own wagon and finally decided to take all his toys and go home. The blame, not entirely but quite thoroughly, rests with one Charles Sit Down And Shut Up Wang.

And if Wang sells, the move to Brooklyn is much, much nicer to this fan and others. I might just pay to see them play again!!!!!!!!!

{He'll be dead before I go and pay money to see them live at home again, mark my word - ten plus years and counting since that ****eating ****bucket ever got one dime from me}

But, again, I doubt it's true. He's not gonna sell.

Yes, I can actually. Politicians have bent over backwards to stick their heads up their butts for their friends to get deals done. For Wang, Murray basically didn't want to budge because she feels she's protecting some nostalgia of island past. You had a team owner willing to finance his own vision (very rare these days), and TOH gave him the finger. Wang wouldn't negotiate because Murray's vision wasn't feasible or economically viable as many stated.

Go for Wang finally being fed and taking his toys. How long was the Lighthouse BS going on for? 8-10 years? I wouldn't have even waited that long. I would have told Nassau and TOH screw you a lot sooner.

Listen, Wang's got a lot of faults. I'll give you that. I don't like all he's done. The fact of us working on a $15- budget pisses me off. But I give Wang credit for trying to keep the Isles in Nassau and when faced with no prospects there, keeping them somewhat local in Brooklyn. Because we easily could have been looking at the Kansas City Tornados or the Quebec _____________.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 19 in a row View Post
Disagree, IMO there is plenty of blame to go around and the problems go back way further than kate murray and the current politicians. "Idiots" may be your unbiased labeling. Ownership and a poor front office ran this team into the ground for many years. If this team had made the playoffs semi regularly, spent money on the team and not alienated fans and media (lafontaine, botta, on and on) it never would have gotten to this... all we have gotten for over 25 years is sporadic surprise seasons and none in 10 years +, the polticians definitely contributed to this in a big way but ownership is far from blame.. the lighthouse project was a business venture for additional development and not a hockey one, or else there would have been compromise from wang.

good luck in brooklyn, thanks for being so inclusive...
Yes, the politicians are idiots. The Isles even as crappy as they've been bring in $200+ million in tax revenues for the County. That alone should be incentive to have worked out some type of deal to keep the team. So now, what do you think is going to happen to the area around the NVMC? Businesses? Guess what, business will suffer, the area will suffer, the County's tax coffers will suffer. I agree the Lighthouse wasn't a total hockey venture, but Murray insulted Wang with her counter proposal to the Lighthouse.

Brooklyn will welcome anyone who wants to come. The team isn't shutting out Long Island. Long Island shut them out when they voted down the referendum and Murray said no to the Lighthouse.

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02-16-2013, 03:02 PM
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You are aware that Brooklyn is on Long Island and that staying in NVMC was never going to happen? I think I will take Brooklyn over the Quebec Nordiques.
they were never going to Quebec, that was all a scare tactic

It was Brooklyn as a worst case scenario

the threats of Quebec and Kansas City where they so you thought "Hey they are still in NY"

And Brooklyn is not on Long Island

Long Island is Suffolk and Nassau County

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02-16-2013, 03:05 PM
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So you're going to stop following hockey because the team is moving 20 miles west? I moved 1200 miles away and follow the Isles more now than I ever did before. The feeling doesn't change. The only difference is a new building and a few more miles drive. Now if you said you were fed up cause Wang is a cheap SOB, that I can buy, but because the team is moving a few miles? Damn! Ask Thrasher fans how they felt losing a team all together or Winnipeg fans the first time their team left. Wang could of sold and the Isles could have been known as the Kansas City Tornados, but instead a 20 mile move allows them to remain the New York Islanders and the best part, the name is still true to a location.

I follow the Isles harder now that I am further away. I appreciate them more being away from NY. Being away fro my team even made me appreciate the sport more and I picked up a team B in the Lightning.
Right on...I moved to Raleigh 8 years ago and I'm as big a fan now as was when I lived up there. Of course, it does help having basically 24/7 access to the team with the internet, Twitter, and GameCenter. That helps immensely.

If fans want to stop rooting for the Isles because of the 20-mile move east...doesn't bother me in the slightest. Best of luck to them. I'm sure they'll be replaced by 3-4 scarf wearing hipsters. And let's see them continue to stay away if a group like LaFontaine's or Peltz buys the team and they start competing every year.

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02-16-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by lost35 View Post
they were never going to Quebec, that was all a scare tactic

It was Brooklyn as a worst case scenario

the threats of Quebec and Kansas City where they so you thought "Hey they are still in NY"

And Brooklyn is not on Long Island

Long Island is Suffolk and Nassau County


First bold: You know that for fact? Would love to see where this is stated as fact.

Seconded bolded: Brooklyn and Queens are GEOGRAPHICALLY part of Long Island (See a map), although considered part of the NYC 5 boroughs. I've heard it and I am sure others have that Nassau was like a 6th unofficial borough to NYC.

Stop letting your hate for Brooklyn blind you from the facts.

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02-16-2013, 03:08 PM
  #69
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We need a new owner more than anything else, a real one for once-No Spano, Gluckstern-Milstein, Wang. With a real owner, he gets rid of everyone and brings in hockey people to run things.

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02-16-2013, 03:22 PM
  #70
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Out of curiosity, would you guys be happy if Prokhorov was the one that bought the team?

Also, from a personal note, regardless of what happens, I just hope that they don't change the team from the New York Islanders to the Brooklyn Islanders with new ownership. Same goes for keeping their current home and aways.

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02-16-2013, 03:24 PM
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Lemieux and Burkle will buy the Islanders, then we can do some trades with Mario and Ron.

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02-16-2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeland Security View Post
Yes, I can actually. Politicians have bent over backwards to stick their heads up their butts for their friends to get deals done. For Wang, Murray basically didn't want to budge because she feels she's protecting some nostalgia of island past. You had a team owner willing to finance his own vision (very rare these days), and TOH gave him the finger. Wang wouldn't negotiate because Murray's vision wasn't feasible or economically viable as many stated.

Go for Wang finally being fed and taking his toys. How long was the Lighthouse BS going on for? 8-10 years? I wouldn't have even waited that long. I would have told Nassau and TOH screw you a lot sooner.

Listen, Wang's got a lot of faults. I'll give you that. I don't like all he's done. The fact of us working on a $15- budget pisses me off. But I give Wang credit for trying to keep the Isles in Nassau and when faced with no prospects there, keeping them somewhat local in Brooklyn. Because we easily could have been looking at the Kansas City Tornados or the Quebec _____________.
Wang was given a reduction EXPLICITLY with a chance to negotiate. Wang would not budge...."yes or no."

The area could not accommodate the whole project and Wang refused to compromise. If he got 70 percent.....he still says no.

Now add Bettman said explicitly the team was not moving, Forbes said the team lost $4-15M a year each year and Wang would not provide complete plans for the LHP after several proddings. He's no hero. His ONE compromise ADDED DEVELOPMENT when he reduced the one tower to two smaller ones with more square footage.

Now the referendum....Wang promised it was revenue neutral but would not later do so when called on the initial overrun projections and essentially admitted taxpayers would be saddled with the bill for the first few years, with taxpayers having their taxes go up as he initially promised would not happen. No events, no revenue, but the bond was to be paid with????

He's lied and cheated throughout. I don't know how you can't see a businessman dealing with a government with STRICT rules in place had to compromise with the environmental concerns and the fiscal realities of the area.

Again, there was to be more residents moved into the area and the allotted projection costs for new school expansion, additional staff and so on was not even close to being covered by the project plans. Add the meager amount to roads, to water usage, to sewer improvements.


Murray extended the olive branch, as did Mangano. NEGOTIATE.

We got, "take it or leave it," from our petulant owner.

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02-16-2013, 03:26 PM
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So you're going to stop following hockey because the team is moving 20 miles west? I moved 1200 miles away and follow the Isles more now than I ever did before. The feeling doesn't change. The only difference is a new building and a few more miles drive. Now if you said you were fed up cause Wang is a cheap SOB, that I can buy, but because the team is moving a few miles? Damn! Ask Thrasher fans how they felt losing a team all together or Winnipeg fans the first time their team left. Wang could of sold and the Isles could have been known as the Kansas City Tornados, but instead a 20 mile move allows them to remain the New York Islanders and the best part, the name is still true to a location.




I follow the Isles harder now that I am further away. I appreciate them more being away from NY. Being away fro my team even made me appreciate the sport more and I picked up a team B in the Lightning.
Atlanta and Winnipeg fans I doubt had the same "feel" for the team as Isles fans do, especially Atlanta Fans

and the thing that really bothers me is the Islanders made history with those 4 straight Cups, that is a source of pride for the Islanders

a move to Brooklyn will erase that

you will have the banners there (maybe? who knows with the configurations)

But it still wont be the same

Even if the Isles refurbished the Coliseum or get a New Arena on Long Island, it would be the Isles home, and those Cup Banners with all those retired Jerseys from those Legendary players would have the same feeling

Having those Banners waving in Brooklyn is not the same

And I still say the Isles will eventually change their logo to be more "Brooklyn" accommodating

and that will really put the nail in the coffin of the Islanders and their legacy

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02-16-2013, 03:28 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lost35 View Post
they were never going to Quebec, that was all a scare tactic

It was Brooklyn as a worst case scenario

the threats of Quebec and Kansas City where they so you thought "Hey they are still in NY"

And Brooklyn is not on Long Island

Long Island is Suffolk and Nassau County
This is flat out wrong. I know for a fact (I have a highly place contact at Quebecor media) which has confirmed to me that Islanders were a possibility at some point in time, so although I can't say if it was ever a strong possibility or not, there definitely was a development there

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02-16-2013, 03:29 PM
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OlTimeHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeland Security View Post
First bold: You know that for fact? Would love to see where this is stated as fact.

Seconded bolded: Brooklyn and Queens are GEOGRAPHICALLY part of Long Island (See a map), although considered part of the NYC 5 boroughs. I've heard it and I am sure others have that Nassau was like a 6th unofficial borough to NYC.

Stop letting your hate for Brooklyn blind you from the facts.
Geography, Brooklyn is on Long Island.

Reality....NYC ends at the Cross Island and Long Island begins, for all intents and purposes. Two equally valid arguments, but intent and perspective make both right and wrong.

As for the first part, Bettman said repeatedly that no historic franchise would be allowed to relocate. It would be bad for the league.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=422803

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