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MacIntyre and the changing role of the enforcer

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Old
02-16-2013, 07:35 AM
  #51
Tender Rip
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
Boston, NY, St. Louis, Philly, Vancouver.
And with the exception of Sestito on the Flyers (who can even play a bit), not one single one among these teams have a designated goon a'la Mac or Godard.

Say you want size, toughness, physicality... I am with you. Totally. But that has nothing to do with adding an enforcer, much less playing Mac.

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02-16-2013, 08:29 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Killahpunk View Post
I miss Godard.
Amen. He was one of if not the best enforcer this team has ever had.

Great locker room guy too.

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02-16-2013, 08:44 AM
  #53
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I want players who know how to actually play hockey.

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Old
02-16-2013, 10:21 AM
  #54
Terrapin
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
And with the exception of Sestito on the Flyers (who can even play a bit), not one single one among these teams have a designated goon a'la Mac or Godard.

Say you want size, toughness, physicality... I am with you. Totally. But that has nothing to do with adding an enforcer, much less playing Mac.
Maybe not to begin this year, but they pretty much all did last year. I remember looking before at the top 10 in standings last year. And of those top 10, 7 of them were in the top 10-12 in fighting majors. I don't remember exactly, but the only ones that weren't were the Pens, Wings, and Nashville I think.

I think in an 82 game season, a Macintyre or Godard should dress for maybe 4 or 5 of those games. Most teams now either have a designated goon or two (Toronto, Buffalo), or a team full of tough, physical players (Boston, New York, etc). We really have neither. And I'd much rather have more size and grit overall than some plug that skates 2 minutes a game. But our bottom 6 are littered with guys like TK, Cooke, Adams, Jeffrey, Boychuk, Suter, etc. Glass was supposed to add grit and toughness, but thus far I've seen neither from him.

So I'm with you for the most part. But like i said, against a Boston, Toronto, etc, I'd much rather see Mac taking on scrubs like Orr, Thorton, etc than having Engo doing it.

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02-16-2013, 11:02 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Enforcers like Mac and Godard are not just useless, they're a liability and an embarrassment.

We have Engo and Glass and even Adams to fight if needed.
I think the day of lining up with five players and a traffic cone are over.

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02-16-2013, 11:34 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
I will still stand by my theory that the physicality of this roster started to tank after that Isles debacle. And I think Shero was made to do that by Mario.
That doesn't make much sense, though. Mario played in an era when all the biggest, baddest, toughest guys in the league resided. OK, save for a few in the 70s, but they were even bigger in Mario's era. And he is friends with Jay Caufield. And he wanted Caufield in the lineup most nights. Even when poor Jay didn't even get a sniff of a shift. That happened A LOT. Mario got all of Caufield's ice time... And you know what, Jay Caufield made Steve MacIntyre look like Steve Shutt. My God was Caufield a bad hockey player. But who cares. He had a job to do. He was Mr. Deterrent.

I seriously doubt Mario ordered the team to calm the &^%$ down after the Islanders series. Hell, Mario had his share of battles with the Isles, specifically with Darius Kasparaitis. He still must have those competitive juices when he watches his team play.

I just can't buy this theory about Lemieux.

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02-16-2013, 11:38 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
And with the exception of Sestito on the Flyers (who can even play a bit), not one single one among these teams have a designated goon a'la Mac or Godard.

Say you want size, toughness, physicality... I am with you. Totally. But that has nothing to do with adding an enforcer, much less playing Mac.
The Rangers have Stu Bickel. He can't really play. The Blues have a very GOOD young enforcer in Ryan Reaves. Hell, those types don't grow on trees, though. The B's are well documented. Lane MacDermid is their latest enforcer. He can play a BIT, but let's not get crazy here.

As for Vancouver, they have Volpatti and Weise now, who are bigger versions of Tanner Glass basically. But they also have Kassian, which we do not have. Besides, we never wanna be associated with Vancouver (Burrows, Lapierre, Kesler)...I hate that team.

Basically, you believe that unless you can have a Kassian or a Reaves, you shouldn't have a tough guy. And I believe it'd be GREAT to have a Kassian or Reaves, but if you can't you take what you have.

It's just two different schools of thought.

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02-16-2013, 12:35 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The Rangers have Stu Bickel. He can't really play. The Blues have a very GOOD young enforcer in Ryan Reaves. Hell, those types don't grow on trees, though. The B's are well documented. Lane MacDermid is their latest enforcer. He can play a BIT, but let's not get crazy here.

As for Vancouver, they have Volpatti and Weise now, who are bigger versions of Tanner Glass basically. But they also have Kassian, which we do not have. Besides, we never wanna be associated with Vancouver (Burrows, Lapierre, Kesler)...I hate that team.

Basically, you believe that unless you can have a Kassian or a Reaves, you shouldn't have a tough guy. And I believe it'd be GREAT to have a Kassian or Reaves, but if you can't you take what you have.

It's just two different schools of thought.
bieska is also a top notch feather/middle weight


but to add to your point. their line up is filled with toughness

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02-16-2013, 04:40 PM
  #59
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Why do people use the word "goon" to describe an enforcer? It pisses me off.

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02-16-2013, 04:42 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by MichiganWolverines View Post
Why do people use the word "goon" to describe an enforcer? It pisses me off.
Their value literally comes from beating people up. That's a goon.

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02-16-2013, 04:53 PM
  #61
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Their value literally comes from threatening to beat people up. That's a goon.
A goon is an enforcer who plays dirty (by my definition). When I think of a goon, I think of players like Jesse Boulerice, Donald Brashear and Dale Purinton.

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02-16-2013, 04:56 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by MichiganWolverines View Post
A goon is an enforcer who plays dirty (by my definition). When I think of a goon, I think of players like Jesse Boulerice, Donald Brashear and Dale Purinton.
fighting people who don't want to fight you is dirty. You cannot be an effective enforcer if you won't be dirty. You can be George Laraque and only perform sideshow fights with willing opponents. But then you aren't actually enforcing anyways. The only enforcers who enforce anything are the ones willing to be dirty, thus making them goons.

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Old
02-16-2013, 05:14 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MichiganWolverines View Post
Why do people use the word "goon" to describe an enforcer? It pisses me off.
Aren't you sensitive? Goon. Goon. Goony. Goon-goon-goon.

And I love me some goons, but let's not play semantic games here. Goons.

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02-16-2013, 06:16 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
fighting people who don't want to fight you is dirty. You cannot be an effective enforcer if you won't be dirty. You can be George Laraque and only perform sideshow fights with willing opponents. But then you aren't actually enforcing anyways. The only enforcers who enforce anything are the ones willing to be dirty, thus making them goons.
Godard was pretty straight up. I think most 'goons' are. You didn't see guys like Probert, Boogard, Mac, etc beating up stars or guys like Chris Connor. Sure, they have to have a mean streak in them, but most of them seem to follow the 'code'. Which, is a great book BTW. I recommend it to everyone.

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02-16-2013, 06:33 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
Godard was pretty straight up. I think most 'goons' are. You didn't see guys like Probert, Boogard, Mac, etc beating up stars or guys like Chris Connor. Sure, they have to have a mean streak in them, but most of them seem to follow the 'code'. Which, is a great book BTW. I recommend it to everyone.
I've seen Godard cross checking star players and I've seen Godard jump off the bench to fight someone. Godard was a goon. He was good at it, but he was a goon.

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02-16-2013, 06:36 PM
  #66
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People love their goons. They just can't admit it to themselves. They're in the goon closet. Come out guys, we already know you're gaga for goons! Goon goon goon goonity goon goon GOOONS!

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Old
02-16-2013, 06:52 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I've seen Godard cross checking star players and I've seen Godard jump off the bench to fight someone. Godard was a goon. He was good at it, but he was a goon.
I've seen Geno and Sid give more cheapshots than Godard ever did. Are they goons?

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02-16-2013, 07:10 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
I've seen Geno and Sid give more cheapshots than Godard ever did. Are they goons?
no they are hockey players. Take away the dirty stuff and a goon no longer has a job in the NHL.

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