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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Jets - Adams >>> Tangradi

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Old
02-16-2013, 12:13 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I think sometimes we put so much time and effort into knowing these prospects that come up through the system that we don't want to part with them until we're absolutely, positively, 100% sure that they won't pan out for us. Tango had lots of chances to prove himself on the 4th line, and a glorious, short opportunity very few players get to prove himself with elite NHL players.

He failed in both roles, and in the meantime we not only picked up a more skilled, productive, pedigreed winger via waivers (Boychuk), but had a young in-house option who looked better than Tangradi too (Jeffrey), and a prized 1st rounder who's impressed at every level get healthy (Bennett).

Sometimes you only get one shot. ET missed his chance to blow. That opportunity comes once in a lifetime.
You deserve an infraction for that crap Eminem song in the end. For the record, I agree. I thought ET was an average hockey player who just never grew into his own player. He never showed me anything on the ice. But then again - I was never a fan of Malone until he proved me wrong.

But Strait, Lovejoy, Letestu, Armstrong, Tangradi, and soon to be DJ... I won't miss them one bit.

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02-16-2013, 12:15 PM
  #227
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I was at the Erie Otters vs. London Knights game last night so I didn't get to watch the Pens.

How did Bennett do?

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Old
02-16-2013, 12:17 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I watched both Kadri and Schenn a ton last year and they looked like garbage, mostly. You can dig up all of the busts threads made about them if you like.
Here's a thread from last year regarding Schenn, roughly 10 games into his career in Philly it appears. The general consensus was that he looked good in limited action despite dealing with injuries and not producing offensively.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...hlight=brayden

Another Schenn thread a month later:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...hlight=brayden

I'm sure there were a few morons labeling him a bust when he wasn't scoring right away, but those people are the minority. Most saw right away that Schenn had a ton of talent and it was only a matter of time before he put it all together.

I'll look at what the majority of Leafs fans had to say about Kadri later on if you'd like but I'm guessing it's more or less the same story. Needless to say that very few fans came into this season thinking Tangradi had shown glimpes of being able to develop into a top 6 forward.

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02-16-2013, 12:24 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You deserve an infraction for that crap Eminem song in the end.
It'd be well deserved, haha.

Quote:
For the record, I agree. I thought ET was an average hockey player who just never grew into his own player. He never showed me anything on the ice. But then again - I was never a fan of Malone until he proved me wrong.

But Strait, Lovejoy, Letestu, Armstrong, Tangradi, and soon to be DJ... I won't miss them one bit.
I think we might miss Strait - he always impressed me with his steady play at the NHL level. We'll see.

But my reservations about the whole Lovejoy/Strait thing notwithstanding, I don't think it's an organizational concern. I feel lesser lights should have to prove themselves over extended periods in limited roles before they make any team, but especially contenders.

Guys like Bennett and Despres, you live with their NHL growing pains because of the talent. Despres will make a goof one shift, then the next he'll bury a guy in the corner and gallop down the ice to pot a goal. Cream rises. Net gain.

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Old
02-16-2013, 12:24 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
kind of like when the Jets shipped Poni out in favor of Tangradi?
I think there ought to be a distinction between a rebuilding team trading away a briefly tenured journeyman winger and a contending team benching veterans who have been on the team for years and won a Cup with.

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02-16-2013, 12:30 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
I think there ought to be a distinction between a rebuilding team trading away a briefly tenured journeyman winger and a contending team benching veterans who have been on the team for years and won a Cup with.
I guess I missed that implication in 'teams just don't do that." So some teams do it.

Along those lines, what about the Flyers? Are they not a contender? I seem to remember they shipped out veterans - namely their captain, Mike Richards, and Jeff Carter - so that younger kids could play.


Maybe the Pens should build their team with a little more urgency and desperation. Maybe "key cogs" such as Adams and Kenendy shouldn't have a roster spot because of what they did 2 or 3 years ago.


I'm not talking about gifting "fringe NHLers" 15-minutes a game in the top-6. If Craig Adams roster spot is the "hill you want to die on", well, uh, good luck with that.

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02-16-2013, 12:56 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I guess I missed that implication in 'teams just don't do that." So some teams do it.
Would you have liked us to trade TK for picks and claim somebody off waivers to take his spot? No? Then it's not the same thing.

Quote:
Along those lines, what about the Flyers? Are they not a contender? I seem to remember they shipped out veterans - namely their captain, Mike Richards, and Jeff Carter - so that younger kids could play.
You're extrapolating what I said into something else entirely if you think this is anything but a huge stretch. Carter and Richards were not underperforming veterans in danger of being benched. They both had excellent final seasons in Philly and everybody was shocked to see them traded. I am floored that you would even suggest this is comparable to wanting TK or Adams benched for Jeffrey, Tangradi, or other AHL fodder.

Quote:
Maybe the Pens should build their team with a little more urgency and desperation. Maybe "key cogs" such as Adams and Kenendy shouldn't have a roster spot because of what they did 2 or 3 years ago.
I could care less about Adams. He's not any good and I could care less if he were benched, traded, or waived. Kennedy on the other hand has been a productive third liner on this team for years, and it's reasonable that he's given more than 15 games to get his game back on track, especially given the other options at DB's disposal.

Quote:
I'm not talking about gifting "fringe NHLers" 15-minutes a game in the top-6. If Craig Adams roster spot is the "hill you want to die on", well, uh, good luck with that.
You asked me why Bylsma doesn't bench veterans for unproven, borderline NHL caliber talent. I'm telling you it's because coaches by and large do not do that. There may be an example here and there of that not holding true but in those cases you're talking in all likelihood about a team like the Islanders, Jets, or some other lottery team.

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02-16-2013, 01:07 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Would you have liked us to trade TK for picks and claim somebody off waivers to take his spot? No? Then it's not the same thing.



You're extrapolating what I said into something else entirely if you think this is anything but a huge stretch. Carter and Richards were not underperforming veterans in danger of being benched. They both had excellent final seasons in Philly and everybody was shocked to see them traded. I am floored that you would even suggest this is comparable to wanting TK or Adams benched for Jeffrey, Tangradi, or other AHL fodder.



I could care less about Adams. He's not any good and I could care less if he were benched, traded, or waived. Kennedy on the other hand has been a productive third liner on this team for years, and it's reasonable that he's given more than 15 games to get his game back on track, especially given the other options at DB's disposal.



You asked me why Bylsma doesn't bench veterans for unproven, borderline NHL caliber talent. I'm telling you it's because coaches by and large do not do that. There may be an example here and there of that not holding true but in those cases you're talking in all likelihood about a team like the Islanders, Jets, or some other lottery team.
The veterans I'm talking about are Adams and Kennedy, which are roster spots that we should/could be using to work people into the lineup, let them get NHL experience, and let them grow.

I don't mean 5 minutes a night like Tangradi got last year, but an actual 4th-line role.

I'll assume you mean you "couldn't" care less about Adams, so I'll ask what your issue is with anything I said. Some younger kid should be on the 4th line instead of Adams, or the 3rd line instead of Kennedy. That's where the kids in the Pens system are going to get their experience, their opportunity. That's where they are going to set the stage for their growth and promotion within the system.

I'm fine with BB starting out on the 3rd line. He clearly has the skills and talent to be a top-6 guy, but he needs to get adjusted to the NHL. That's fine. But they haven't shown a willingness to do that with guys like Jeffrey or Tangradi, when the people they would be replacing in the bottom-6 are unspectacular, at best.

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Old
02-16-2013, 01:33 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post

I'll assume you mean you "couldn't" care less about Adams, so I'll ask what your issue is with anything I said. Some younger kid should be on the 4th line instead of Adams, or the 3rd line instead of Kennedy. That's where the kids in the Pens system are going to get their experience, their opportunity. That's where they are going to set the stage for their growth and promotion within the system.
I wouldn't mind seeing Adams gone, I just don't hold it against Bylsma since every coach in the league gives their veterans too much leeway and plays favorites. As for TK, he's been a consistent producer at the NHL level. If you bench him it's temporary and to send a message that he needs to step his game up. And yes, it's highly unlikely anybody in our system is going to be able to come up and replace his production. Not his current production of course, the production that we've seen from him over the last 4-5 years which we should expect him to get back to.

Quote:
I'm fine with BB starting out on the 3rd line. He clearly has the skills and talent to be a top-6 guy, but he needs to get adjusted to the NHL. That's fine. But they haven't shown a willingness to do that with guys like Jeffrey or Tangradi, when the people they would be replacing in the bottom-6 are unspectacular, at best.
We've been over this before. BB is much more talented than Tangradi, who did almost nothing to establish himself as an NHL player during his 45 games in Pittsburgh. Jeffrey has shown some glimpses here and there but has mostly been unimpressive. It's not as if we don't know what to expect from those two and they could break out at any time. TK is and probably always will be a better third line option than them, and Adams fills a vital role (in DB's eyes) on the PK that makes him hesitant to sit him. That is why they are still in the lineup.

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Old
02-16-2013, 02:45 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Relying on vets was the least of our concerns in those playoff losses.
Lovejoy’s gift to Couterier didn’t have an impact on the playoffs series? The wins coming in games where Tangradi was dressed? Keeping Martin and Michalek in the lineup even as they struggled incredibly was understandable even though Strait had handled himself with ease after being thrown in the fire? Craig Adams on the penalty kill? Relying on vets wasn’t the biggest issue, but it was certainly far from the least of our concerns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
As for Despres over Lovejoy...yeah, what? That's exactly the sort of "rookie over mediocre vet" move that people say DB doesn't make. Except he did.
Calling Lovejoy “mediocre” is being generous. The knock here is how long it took Bylsma to choose the rookie over the obviously inept defenseman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Of course he has options left. The whole argument against DB is that he would call up career AHLers/fringe NHLers to fill roster spots over rookies. Remember? Chris Conner? Richard Park? Cal O'Reilly? Colin McDonald? There's no shortage of these types available in the organization. But he's giving BB a shot instead (even over Jeffrey) because he's skilled enough to make the potential payoff worth it.
How many of those listed players are current options? And due to player management and injury, Jeffrey is still treated like a “rookie” anyway, so Bennett over Jeffrey isn’t exactly groundbreaking. If anything it’s kind of strange that Bennett gets this look when Jeffrey could be tried again on Malkin’s line and Boychuk could get a shot elsewhere – 1st or 3rd – or even Bennett getting the call up after the decision is made that Boychuk didn’t cut it. This organization has essentially written Jeffrey off at this point, so it looks like Jeffrey is almost ready to join the list of the forgotten.

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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
TK's a vet who's consistently proven he can produce at a .5 PPG level. He's been talked to by the coaches, but he gets more rope to get himself back on track because of his track record.
Michalek had proved himself prior to last season as well. It doesn’t mean the ineffective and overall inconsequential player should get endless rope to get back to the unimpressive realm of mediocrity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
You keep bringing up that Schenn and Kadri were labeled busts. I've seen Schenn play countless times now as I live near Philly and catch many of their games. Despite his struggles it was quite clear why he was as highly thought of as he was. From my limited time seeing Kadri before this year, the same thing applied. He struggled, but the talent was evident. With Tangradi he struggled, showed no talent, didn't throw his body around, and looked like a career ECHLer. It's an apples and oranges comparsion, at best.
I live near Philly too. Outside of straight-line Dupuis speed and the occasional big hit, I never saw that “pedigree skill” from Schenn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Here's a thread from last year regarding Schenn, roughly 10 games into his career in Philly it appears. The general consensus was that he looked good in limited action despite dealing with injuries and not producing offensively.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...hlight=brayden

Another Schenn thread a month later:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...hlight=brayden

I'm sure there were a few morons labeling him a bust when he wasn't scoring right away, but those people are the minority. Most saw right away that Schenn had a ton of talent and it was only a matter of time before he put it all together.

I'll look at what the majority of Leafs fans had to say about Kadri later on if you'd like but I'm guessing it's more or less the same story. Needless to say that very few fans came into this season thinking Tangradi had shown glimpes of being able to develop into a top 6 forward.
A fan base justifying a trade of their former captain? You can’t tell me you’re surprised. You should also quote the threads where these same posters were discussing Voracek and Read as being skilled enough to be the center pieces in a trade for Shea Weber. If Simmonds hadn’t made an immediate impact for the Flyers you would’ve had plenty of fans up in arms about their return for Richards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Carter and Richards were not underperforming veterans in danger of being benched. They both had excellent final seasons in Philly and everybody was shocked to see them traded. I am floored that you would even suggest this is comparable to wanting TK or Adams benched for Jeffrey, Tangradi, or other AHL fodder.
You lived near Philly, right? Did you not hear the constant calls for Carter's head? The constant ragging about his under-performance in big games, foot injuries, and overall lack of "heart?" The same drums were starting to beat for Richards as well, but he still had some time to get to where Carter was at the time of their trades. Yes, the Richards trade was a shock, but ultimately the fan base was excited for the change, and on the shoulders of Giroux, they felt they were ready to do such. There was much praise for Holmgren for “doing something” after it became quite clear the Flyers weren’t going to win the cup with the Carter/Richards core. The main criticisms you’d hear of the trades was, “Carter had to go, but the Richards trade could bite us” which is the equivalent of straddling the fence so you can claim righteousness if the trade turns out in the favor of the Kings or Flyers.

I believe the implications IcedCapp was getting to by bringing up Carter and Richards played exactly into what you said. Lavy and Holmgren traded away veteran proven scorers and they were a team that was in no position to “tank” or rebuild. If the Flyers could manage to make such difficult decisions to attempt to better their team without falling apart entirely, it shouldn’t be totally inconceivable for Bylsma to “do the same” with far lesser players like Kennedy and Adams.

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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
But Strait, Lovejoy, Letestu, Armstrong, Tangradi, and soon to be DJ... I won't miss them one bit.
Why were these players here? What was the plan for them all along? Seeing these draft picks end up useless should make us feel good or indifferent to the 4th, 5th, and 7th round draft picks we got for them?


Last edited by Rocket of Russia: 02-16-2013 at 02:57 PM.
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Old
02-16-2013, 02:49 PM
  #236
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Guys there's a new thread (with article) about GM Asset management. Seems more relevant to what you're describing now than post-game talk.

[On second thought no post-moving... too much Tangradi BS weaved through the last couple pages. The stuff about how other teams are managing their assets is worth discussing IMO, just not in a post-game thread.]

Will be closing this down soon.


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Old
02-16-2013, 03:13 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Here's a thread from last year regarding Schenn, roughly 10 games into his career in Philly it appears. The general consensus was that he looked good in limited action despite dealing with injuries and not producing offensively.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...hlight=brayden

Another Schenn thread a month later:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...hlight=brayden

I'm sure there were a few morons labeling him a bust when he wasn't scoring right away, but those people are the minority. Most saw right away that Schenn had a ton of talent and it was only a matter of time before he put it all together.

I'll look at what the majority of Leafs fans had to say about Kadri later on if you'd like but I'm guessing it's more or less the same story. Needless to say that very few fans came into this season thinking Tangradi had shown glimpes of being able to develop into a top 6 forward.
Schenn hit a 20 game skid from Feb-March where he had around two points in 20 games. Threads popped up labelling him a bust.

Schenn was routinely getting 14-16 minutes TOI a game and still struggling. He looked like garbage, not one of the best fwd prospects around.

Kadri had limited ice time, made mistakes, got benched and called out by Wilson, and he used him like a yo-yo between the NHL and the A. Threads popped up labelling him a bust.

ET got even less ice time than those two and despite your insistence he played like an ECHL player, he played well enough to earn a fourth line spot.

So once again, I couldn't disagree with your original point anymore vehemently.

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02-16-2013, 03:39 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
That's not what you asked. You asked, essentially, why the Penguins aren't benching veterans in favor of fringe NHL players who might have potential. I'm telling you teams just don't do that.
The Stars won four of five before last night's game. But, they didn't like the way the second line was going, so they demoted Michael Ryder to the fourth line, and promoted winger Reilly Smith to left wing on the Derek Roy-Loui Eriksson line. They wanted to play Eriksson on the right side again, which was part of the motivation. Reilly Smith had zero goals going into the game last night. He scored the first goal of the game. Ryder responded with two assists and was on the ice in the final minute protecting a lead.

What I just described above would NEVER happen under Disco. He's already set in his ways. He's the worst combination of stubborn and confident, so you don't see any changes to his group unless injuries force it...or unless a kid isn't playing like Mario Lemieux instantly.

With Disco, there is never a plan B. It's cost us games, it's cost us series, but most importantly it's cost us players.

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02-16-2013, 04:02 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Rocket of Russia View Post
I live near Philly too. Outside of straight-line Dupuis speed and the occasional big hit, I never saw that “pedigree skill” from Schenn.
I did, Flyer fans did. It was obvious that Schenn had considerable skill if you watched him play even a handful of games last season.

Quote:
A fan base justifying a trade of their former captain? You can’t tell me you’re surprised. You should also quote the threads where these same posters were discussing Voracek and Read as being skilled enough to be the center pieces in a trade for Shea Weber. If Simmonds hadn’t made an immediate impact for the Flyers you would’ve had plenty of fans up in arms about their return for Richards.
Except Schenn is putting it together this season which justifies much of the praise that he got from Flyer fans a year ago. Also remember that I'm responding to a post that said Schenn had been labeled a bust. The vast majority of Flyer fans clearly did not feel that way. Who cares if a few idiots on the main board believed otherwise? They are the same people who probably thought we lost the Neal trade a few years ago when he couldn't score to save his life. The rest of us knew he was snakebitten and that the goals would come. Or, as you might describe it, we were just being homers to justify trading our highly coveted PMD.

Quote:
You lived near Philly, right? Did you not hear the constant calls for Carter's head? The constant ragging about his under-performance in big games, foot injuries, and overall lack of "heart?" The same drums were starting to beat for Richards as well, but he still had some time to get to where Carter was at the time of their trades. Yes, the Richards trade was a shock, but ultimately the fan base was excited for the change, and on the shoulders of Giroux, they felt they were ready to do such. There was much praise for Holmgren for “doing something” after it became quite clear the Flyers weren’t going to win the cup with the Carter/Richards core. The main criticisms you’d hear of the trades was, “Carter had to go, but the Richards trade could bite us” which is the equivalent of straddling the fence so you can claim righteousness if the trade turns out in the favor of the Kings or Flyers.
Of course. Carter was the scapegoat for everything that ever went wrong with the Flyers even though he was arguably their best player for most of his tenure there. The part about the Flyers never winning with those two as part of their core is a Philly media narrative that couldn't be further from the truth. They were in the Cup Finals a year prior and might have won it all if Leighton didn't have a bad habit of being not good at goaltending. All of a sudden, a year later their window has now closed and they have to trade away their two best players? It's a laughable premise, and even more laughable to suggest that when Carter and Richards win a Cup the season following the trade, even if they weren't the main reason behind why LA won.

Quote:
I believe the implications IcedCapp was getting to by bringing up Carter and Richards played exactly into what you said. Lavy and Holmgren traded away veteran proven scorers and they were a team that was in no position to “tank” or rebuild. If the Flyers could manage to make such difficult decisions to attempt to better their team without falling apart entirely, it shouldn’t be totally inconceivable for Bylsma to “do the same” with far lesser players like Kennedy and Adams.
It's a totally FUBAR comparison. You want Bylsma to do the same as what Philly did with Richards and Carter but with Kennedy and Adams? How on earth do you suggest he do that? Do we deal TK for a player who has his ceiling and a low draft pick? Do we trade Adams for two, maybe three bags of pucks? Maybe we can get a moche latte out of it too?

Come on man, they are not comparable situations under any light. But by all means share your solutions instead of demanding arbitrary change and we'll see if it's actually a possibility, and please don't tell me that putting Jeffrey or Boychuk in TK's spot is the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Schenn hit a 20 game skid from Feb-March where he had around two points in 20 games. Threads popped up labelling him a bust.
What threads? I didn't see anything in the Flyers forum.

Quote:
Schenn was routinely getting 14-16 minutes TOI a game and still struggling. He looked like garbage, not one of the best fwd prospects around.
An opinion not shared by most people who watched him play last season, including myself. Quite the opposite in fact. Flyer fans were very pleased with how he was developing. Your insistance to the contrary is based on a few alleged threads were somebody called him a bust, which I can't seem to find anywhere but if I did would probably have a bunch of responses telling the OP that he's an idiot.

Quote:
Kadri had limited ice time, made mistakes, got benched and called out by Wilson, and he used him like a yo-yo between the NHL and the A. Threads popped up labelling him a bust.
Carlyle obviously saw a lot of talent in Kadri as many did and it paid off. Bylsma didn't have that belief with Tangradi, and neither did the vast majority here.

Quote:
ET got even less ice time than those two and despite your insistence he played like an ECHL player, he played well enough to earn a fourth line spot.
If Tangradi 'earned' a fourth line spot with his play, then Boychuk earned a top 6 spot on account of looking halfway decent for a couple of games.

I just don't get what you saw out of Tangradi at the NHL level. He doesn't hit, he doesn't win battles, he doesn't create anything offensively, he doesn't have a scoring touch around the net. What in god's name did you see that I didn't?

Quote:
So once again, I couldn't disagree with your original point anymore vehemently.
As you're entitled.

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02-16-2013, 04:13 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The Stars won four of five before last night's game. But, they didn't like the way the second line was going, so they demoted Michael Ryder to the fourth line, and promoted winger Reilly Smith to left wing on the Derek Roy-Loui Eriksson line. They wanted to play Eriksson on the right side again, which was part of the motivation. Reilly Smith had zero goals going into the game last night. He scored the first goal of the game. Ryder responded with two assists and was on the ice in the final minute protecting a lead.

What I just described above would NEVER happen under Disco. He's already set in his ways. He's the worst combination of stubborn and confident, so you don't see any changes to his group unless injuries force it...or unless a kid isn't playing like Mario Lemieux instantly.

With Disco, there is never a plan B. It's cost us games, it's cost us series, but most importantly it's cost us players.
Ryder didn't get benched, he was moved to to the third line. Not quite the same thing as making TK a healthy scratch like people are suggesting.

Also, didn't Ponikarovsky get shuffled around the lineup and scratched a few times?

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02-16-2013, 04:31 PM
  #241
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by Rocket of Russia View Post
I believe the implications IcedCapp was getting to by bringing up Carter and Richards played exactly into what you said. Lavy and Holmgren traded away veteran proven scorers and they were a team that was in no position to “tank” or rebuild. If the Flyers could manage to make such difficult decisions to attempt to better their team without falling apart entirely, it shouldn’t be totally inconceivable for Bylsma to “do the same” with far lesser players like Kennedy and Adams.
I don't want to upset CV, so ill make this quick: yes, this is what I'm getting at. Is really don't see what the Pens would be losing in terms of on-ice ability if Adams and Kennedy were not on the roster. Tangradi? Boychuk? Jeffrey? Someone in the A? I don't know what any of them would do with a legitimate bottom-6 role, but I know what Kennedy is doing with his. If nothing else, make them fight for their jobs.

If the excuse for not having time to develop prospects is, "we are in win now" mode, then they shouldn't have time for under performing, low ceiling vets

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02-16-2013, 05:00 PM
  #242
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Lovejoy’s gift to Couterier didn’t have an impact on the playoffs series? The wins coming in games where Tangradi was dressed? Keeping Martin and Michalek in the lineup even as they struggled incredibly was understandable even though Strait had handled himself with ease after being thrown in the fire? Craig Adams on the penalty kill? Relying on vets wasn’t the biggest issue, but it was certainly far from the least of our concerns.
Nevermind. Had a long post addressing these issues but didn't see CV's post. I'll drop it.

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02-16-2013, 05:06 PM
  #243
JTG
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What do you mean?
I'd move this entire draft if it made this team better for the next 5 years or so.

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02-16-2013, 05:10 PM
  #244
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I don't want to upset CV, so ill make this quick: yes, this is what I'm getting at. Is really don't see what the Pens would be losing in terms of on-ice ability if Adams and Kennedy were not on the roster. Tangradi? Boychuk? Jeffrey? Someone in the A? I don't know what any of them would do with a legitimate bottom-6 role, but I know what Kennedy is doing with his. If nothing else, make them fight for their jobs.
Kennedy and Adams are typical third and fourth line players. In other words, every team has veterans just like them in their bottom 6. Glass too. Until we see other teams dumping all of their replaceable veterans from the bottom 6 to inject some youth into their lineup or because "hey, it can't really hurt, right?", then I'll accept that as a valid criticism of this coaching staff.
Quote:
If the excuse for not having time to develop prospects is, "we are in win now" mode, then they shouldn't have time for under performing, low ceiling vets
Our excuse to this point is that we haven't really had any legitimate prospects. Every team has a Tangradi or a Jeffrey, and then some.

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Old
02-16-2013, 05:12 PM
  #245
Ogrezilla
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I'd move this entire draft if it made this team better for the next 5 years or so.
agreed

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Old
02-16-2013, 05:17 PM
  #246
Sidney the Kidney
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In the games I saw of him, he actually showed a good amount of skill, but was just trying too many fancy stuff that don't work at the NHL level. Wilson would bench him immediately as soon as he did something stupid, but IMO he showed a LOT more than Tangradi ever did.

With Kadri, it always seemed like he just needed fine tuning. Stop being so fancy, stop trying those moves that work on junior defensemen, etc. But if he could iron out that stuff, as well as add some strength, he'd be a solid producer.

With Tangradi, I never got the impression from anything he did that he'd be more than perhaps a 4th line banger. I didn't see any actual puck skills (in the times he was in the NHL -- I don't watch AHL hockey to comment on his play with the puck down there). So it wasn't the case of just ironing out the kinks for him.

My 2 cents worth on the Kadri debate.

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02-16-2013, 05:31 PM
  #247
mpp9
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I'd move this entire draft if it made this team better for the next 5 years or so.
Yep. That's our Cup window. Anything after that is icing on the cake.

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02-16-2013, 05:34 PM
  #248
HandshakeLine
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02-16-2013, 06:33 PM
  #249
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I'm willing to bet good money that Tangradi doesn't score 20 goals combined the rest of his NHL career

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