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Old
02-16-2013, 04:47 PM
  #26
Skobel24
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
No but why claim Macdonald we could have just tried both at the same time.
I can't argue with you on this one. I'd rather have Irving/Taylor.

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02-16-2013, 04:50 PM
  #27
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He needs a couple of good years as an NHL backup playing 25-30 games a season.
Unfortunately, we had Kipper as the starter, which I'm not complaining about in the least bit, but when you have an elite goalie who can play 70+ games a year and you're trying to get into the playoffs, giving a backup 25-30 games isn't going to happen.

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02-16-2013, 04:53 PM
  #28
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No - but he at least deserves a chance to come back from that ugly start against St. Louis. He's at least earned that with this latest audition.
I honestly wasn't impressed with him against Dallas. Management may have started him against St.Louis as a chance to rebound.

This may shatter his confidence completely, or it could also send the message that he needs to be better if he's going to play in the NHL. Hopefully, it's the second scenario.

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02-16-2013, 05:05 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Skobel24 View Post
I honestly wasn't impressed with him against Dallas. Management may have started him against St.Louis as a chance to rebound.

This may shatter his confidence completely, or it could also send the message that he needs to be better if he's going to play in the NHL. Hopefully, it's the second scenario.
Again, he's a kid playing over his head so I guess the Dallas game didn't surprise or upset me all that much. Like I said, I think he needs a second chance after the St. Louis mess.

I don't know about his confidence or sending messages but sending him back to Abby and having him sit on his butt for the rest of the season (Seriously - is that coach going to play him all that much after what we saw during the lockout?) is not going to help his game or his career at all.

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02-16-2013, 05:06 PM
  #30
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Yup, this organization's a joke. It's funny how they want to send him down now to 'sharpen' his game when they could have the lockout for that. It's a joke.

Irving's done with the organization but I still think he can be starter with another team. And I expect things like this to be a recurring trend - this organization simply does not know how the develop prospects and until significant changes are made, that won't change.
This all day.

I think Irving was probably overwhelmed. He had not played all season, and then all of the sudden the Flames are like, Hey your our starter now.

I also think it is a joke that he was not getting the majority of starts on the Heat during the lockout. How is your top goaltending prospect going to develop and get game ready if he is not playing.

Anyways, I do not think this means Irving is necessarily done with the Flames, they could just be sending him down to find his game for 3-5 games.

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02-16-2013, 05:07 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Skobel24 View Post
Unfortunately, we had Kipper as the starter, which I'm not complaining about in the least bit, but when you have an elite goalie who can play 70+ games a year and you're trying to get into the playoffs, giving a backup 25-30 games isn't going to happen.
I agree. 10-15 games a season at his stage of development is really not helpful at all. He either should have been traded to a team where he was going to have a chance at some NHL games or an organization where he would have a chance to be a starter in the A.

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02-16-2013, 05:38 PM
  #32
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I can't argue with you on this one. I'd rather have Irving/Taylor.
This is terrible asset management.

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02-16-2013, 05:40 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Detroit - he was good
Comlubus - he was good
Vancouver - he was good team didn't even show up
Minnesota - he was good until the shoot out
Dallas - mostly good bad goal and shaky puck control
St.louis - bad game

So one bad game and he send him down?

I understand some expect him to be Kipper 2.0 but that is ridiculous he played fine for a young net minder thrown into the starting role.
Detroit - Played good but only faced 6 shots in 1 period and didn't have to face a powerplay.
Columbus - Played good but you would expect him to when facing worst team in NHL.
Vancouver - Played well until floodgates opened in 2nd period and defence failed terribly.
Minnestoa - Best game he played I thought.
Dallas - Played a decent game but agreed with bad goal and shaky puck control.
St. Louis - Horrible opening 4 minutes. 2 goals on 4 shots before getting yanked.

I understand everyone wants to give Irving more opportunities but he wasn't even good enough to be the backup for the Heat but expect him to be a starter now in the NHL? What is wrong with giving either Brust or Taylor a go? I know that stats in the AHL don't always translate to the NHL but they've been brick walls down there and are numbers 1 and 2 with below 1.90 GAA.

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02-16-2013, 05:45 PM
  #34
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Detroit - Played good but only faced 6 shots in 1 period and didn't have to face a powerplay.
Columbus - Played good but you would expect him to when facing worst team in NHL.
Vancouver - Played well until floodgates opened in 2nd period and defence failed terribly.
Minnestoa - Best game he played I thought.
Dallas - Played a decent game but agreed with bad goal and shaky puck control.
St. Louis - Horrible opening 4 minutes. 2 goals on 4 shots before getting yanked.

I understand everyone wants to give Irving more opportunities but he wasn't even good enough to be the backup for the Heat but expect him to be a starter now in the NHL? What is wrong with giving either Brust or Taylor a go? I know that stats in the AHL don't always translate to the NHL but they've been brick walls down there and are numbers 1 and 2 with below 1.90 GAA.
Not even remotely true.

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02-16-2013, 05:46 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Roadrage View Post
I understand everyone wants to give Irving more opportunities but he wasn't even good enough to be the backup for the Heat but expect him to be a starter now in the NHL? What is wrong with giving either Brust or Taylor a go? I know that stats in the AHL don't always translate to the NHL but they've been brick walls down there and are numbers 1 and 2 with below 1.90 GAA.
This is what I'm saying. If this team were in a typical rebuild, keep playing Irving. If they want to try to compete, explore your options, and play what gives the best result.

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02-16-2013, 05:46 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Roadrage View Post
Detroit - Played good but only faced 6 shots in 1 period and didn't have to face a powerplay.
Columbus - Played good but you would expect him to when facing worst team in NHL.
Vancouver - Played well until floodgates opened in 2nd period and defence failed terribly.
Minnestoa - Best game he played I thought.
Dallas - Played a decent game but agreed with bad goal and shaky puck control.
St. Louis - Horrible opening 4 minutes. 2 goals on 4 shots before getting yanked.

I understand everyone wants to give Irving more opportunities but he wasn't even good enough to be the backup for the Heat but expect him to be a starter now in the NHL? What is wrong with giving either Brust or Taylor a go? I know that stats in the AHL don't always translate to the NHL but they've been brick walls down there and are numbers 1 and 2 with below 1.90 GAA.
Ward likes his type of guys hard nosed veterans, Irving didn't fit into that and was left in the press box because of it, they play a very different system in the ahl the numbers aren't a good indicator of who is the best. Irving has played well in the nhl unlike Brust he has time to learn in the nhl Brust is just about 30. I don't think giving Taylor a shot is a bad idea by why can't they both play and we let Macdonald stay on waivers?

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02-16-2013, 05:59 PM
  #37
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Ward likes his type of guys hard nosed veterans, Irving didn't fit into that and was left in the press box because of it, they play a very different system in the ahl the numbers aren't a good indicator of who is the best. Irving has played well in the nhl unlike Brust he has time to learn in the nhl Brust is just about 30. I don't think giving Taylor a shot is a bad idea by why can't they both play and we let Macdonald stay on waivers?
U can only sty on waivers for so long and u have a max roster at the nhl so someone had to go down. I'm assuming they didn't want to lose McDonald on waivers?

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02-16-2013, 06:01 PM
  #38
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As I understand it, one of Irving/Karlsson was slotted to be the backup in Calgary this year, and that's why neither were playing regularly (or in Karlsson's case, not at all) in Abbotsford. Irving just got into the odd game there to keep the rust off. If Irving truly couldn't garner even regular backup duty in Abby, there's no way he would have made the Flames. Do I have this right?

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02-16-2013, 06:02 PM
  #39
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First Jones. Now Irving?


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02-16-2013, 06:02 PM
  #40
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U can only sty on waivers for so long and u have a max roster at the nhl so someone had to go down. I'm assuming they didn't want to lose McDonald on waivers?
No I am saying why the **** did we claim him if we wanted to test both Taylor and Irving just use them both. It was dumb to claim Macdonald

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02-16-2013, 06:14 PM
  #41
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Look at Duby up north. He by no means broke into the NHL looking like a number 1. But they have stuck with him and slowly he has emerged and looking like he is a legitimate starter. People in this city and on this board inparticular are way to hasty and what have you done for me lately.

Win a couple, were making the playoffs. Lose a couple, lets blow it all up. Irving has 2 shakey games, well his career in the NHL is over. I fully support him going to the Heat providing he gets some starts to find his game. That should of been the fricking plan when the season started. Its no wonder why the Flames are among the worst in the league at developing their own.

I still believe in Irving.

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02-16-2013, 06:14 PM
  #42
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This all day.

I think Irving was probably overwhelmed. He had not played all season, and then all of the sudden the Flames are like, Hey your our starter now.

I also think it is a joke that he was not getting the majority of starts on the Heat during the lockout. How is your top goaltending prospect going to develop and get game ready if he is not playing.

Anyways, I do not think this means Irving is necessarily done with the Flames, they could just be sending him down to find his game for 3-5 games.
The writing was on the wall when he did not start the first weekend for Abby. Some at the time refused to believe that could be true, but here we are.
Let's see how he does with his time down there this time 'round.

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02-16-2013, 06:18 PM
  #43
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Look at Duby up north. He by no means broke into the NHL looking like a number 1. But they have stuck with him and slowly he has emerged and looking like he is a legitimate starter. People in this city and on this board inparticular are way to hasty and what have you done for me lately.
The difference is that Edmonton wasn't in a position where they were a contender, or even a playoff team. They accepted the rebuild, and stuck with it. Playing Dubnyk essentially meant losing games, but slowly developing him.

Calgary isn't, nor have they been in the same situation. Giving a backup 20-30 games a season isn't the right move when you're gunning for playoffs, and you have an elite starter capable of 70+ games a year. As long as this team continues to try to compete, we won't see a backup getting the playing time that Dubnyk got. The only way we do see this, is if someone comes along and proves that they can be outplay Kipper (hopefully Ramo). While Kiprusoff has had a slow start, Irving isn't even close to being the goalie Kipper is.

As for him being demoted, giving Taylor or MacDonald a shot at this point can't hurt. This team is here to compete (or try to, anyways). Part of that means letting the best goalie play.

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02-16-2013, 06:20 PM
  #44
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Look at Duby up north. He by no means broke into the NHL looking like a number 1. But they have stuck with him and slowly he has emerged and looking like he is a legitimate starter. People in this city and on this board inparticular are way to hasty and what have you done for me lately.

Win a couple, were making the playoffs. Lose a couple, lets blow it all up. Irving has 2 shakey games, well his career in the NHL is over. I fully support him going to the Heat providing he gets some starts to find his game. That should of been the fricking plan when the season started. Its no wonder why the Flames are among the worst in the league at developing their own.

I still believe in Irving.
Agreed.

The way management is going on about asset management is dissapointing.

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02-16-2013, 06:25 PM
  #45
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I'd also like to point out that Dubnyk has had 2 more years to develop. Irving may very well be that legitimate starter by then, but he won't become that playing a few games each season. Sending him to Abbotsford is the right move in my opinion.

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02-16-2013, 06:26 PM
  #46
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No I am saying why the **** did we claim him if we wanted to test both Taylor and Irving just use them both. It was dumb to claim Macdonald
McDonald is a proven backup is really my only answer.

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02-16-2013, 06:28 PM
  #47
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Irving gave up 1-2 bad goals a game, completely unacceptable at this level of play. He has the talent to be a National Hockey League goaltender, but he lacks confidence. I'm afraid his time in the Flames organization may be coming to an end.

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02-16-2013, 06:31 PM
  #48
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No patience Flames!
Ridiculous

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02-16-2013, 06:32 PM
  #49
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Irving gave up 1-2 bad goals a game. Completely unacceptable at this level of play! He has the talent to be a National Hockey League goaltender, but he lacks confidence. I'm afraid his time in the Flames organization may be coming to an end.
This is the only thing about him I question. Putting him in the NHL in front of what is honestly a pretty bad defensive team, isn't likely going to improve that. Neither will sitting him on the bench behind Kipper.

Abbotsford is where he should be. The Flames management just needs to get a bit more involved with the affiliate, and get them to focus on playing a similar system, while giving youth the ice-time. Have Brust support him, not the other way around.

Once this team adjust to Hartleys system, and starts to improve, THEN give Irving a chance.

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02-16-2013, 06:36 PM
  #50
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The difference is that Edmonton wasn't in a position where they were a contender, or even a playoff team. They accepted the rebuild, and stuck with it. Playing Dubnyk essentially meant losing games, but slowly developing him.

Calgary isn't, nor have they been in the same situation. Giving a backup 20-30 games a season isn't the right move when you're gunning for playoffs, and you have an elite starter capable of 70+ games a year. As long as this team continues to try to compete, we won't see a backup getting the playing time that Dubnyk got. The only way we do see this, is if someone comes along and proves that they can be outplay Kipper (hopefully Ramo). While Kiprusoff has had a slow start, Irving isn't even close to being the goalie Kipper is.

As for him being demoted, giving Taylor or MacDonald a shot at this point can't hurt. This team is here to compete (or try to, anyways). Part of that means letting the best goalie play.
He could be playing about 15-17 games though in an 82 game schedule. If you control what starts he is getting against particular opponents, Irving would probably do well. He has shown already in the past that he is capable of winning games.

I agree our situation and the Oilers are entirely different, but my point is the Flames do not know how to bring along their prospects and in Irvings case he just got thrown to the wolves when he was called into action.

Yes Irving could be better, but he should of been handled better by management to this point as well. I really think Weisbrod needs more control over the Heat or Ward should be let go, what a *** damn mess this is turning into.

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