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Outside of the Box Idea - Brandon Sutter on 3rd line Right Wing?

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Old
02-16-2013, 07:07 PM
  #1
jmelm
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Outside of the Box Idea - Brandon Sutter on 3rd line Right Wing?

Ok, I know it's a bit crazy, but follow my thought process. (and this is really only a legitimate consideration if they try Jeffrey again on Geno/Neal's LW...

I think Dustin Jeffrey has the chance to be a hell of a player. What remains to be seen is how effective, if at all, he can be on the LW. So why not try Brandon Sutter on 3rd line RW and have Jeffrey centre the 3rd line (with Sutter taking the draws on his stronger side). In this scenario, TK would be bumped from 3rd line RW -- which may happen anyway if he doesn't pick up his game or becomes trade bait -- although TK played his best game of the season so far against WPG.

The biggest problem with the Malkin or J. Staal experiment on wing was that there was a big drop-off in their play, and especially their offensive production. I think Sutter, however, may not have such a drop-off at all, and could even improve his offensive output in that role. Jeffrey is a fantastic 2-way player at the centre ice position, and is more gifted offensively and as a playmaker than Sutter; so I don't think there will be any drop-off on this line defensively by this proposal, and might even make them produce a lot more offense. And there would be nothing wrong with having a "Jere Lehtonen" type winger in Brandon Sutter.

Kunitz--Crosby--Dupuis
Cooke/BB--Malkn--Neal
Cooke/BB--Jeffrey-- Sutter
Glass--Vitale--Adams/Kennedy

(and if we were to package Kennedy with a Maatta or Niskanen for Setoguchi, move Seto him up with Crosby, move Dupuis down to 2nd or 3rd line, and send BB back to WBS where he probably belongs for the balance of this season)

Kunitz--Crosby--Setoguchi
Dupuis/Cooke--Malkin--Neal
Cooke-Dupuis-Jeffrey--Sutter
Glass-Vitale--Adams
Boychuck

I think this scenario could really work well; not only for creating offense, but also for properly giving Jeffrey the ice-time/opportunity he deserves, even if that does nothing more than increase his trade value (which could be pretty low now, but could become pretty substantial if teams see him healthy and producing at 5on5, EV, and PP/PK). So maybe this just gets done temporarily to give things a different look, and move Sutter back to centre if needed a year or two from now some when some of our wing prospects will be ready (i.e. Archibald, Megna, etc.) to take that 3rd line RW spot.

I know it's a bit off the wall, but it also sounded off the wall when I suggested moving James Neal to RW before last season, and that has turned out pretty nicely. Maybe two-times a charm.

Thoughts?

(and p.s., for those who say that Sutter should be moved to RW on Sid's line, I like him better here, but I think he would still form an ELITE checking trio with Cooke/Dupis + Jeffrey, and would keep his role a bit lesser through this season, which means easier and cheaper to re-sign him. After that, we'll see).

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02-16-2013, 07:10 PM
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Captain Hook
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I don't think you should move a player to another position to make room for an inferior player. Sutter stays at center, TK to the press box or traded and give Jeffrey a shot at LW. Cooke has played some RW in his career.

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02-16-2013, 07:11 PM
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BlindWillyMcHurt
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This is doomed to fail right off the bat because, evidently, Dustin Jeffrey is a fringe NHLer and sucks.

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02-16-2013, 07:14 PM
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jmelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
I don't think you should move a player to another position to make room for an inferior player. Sutter stays at center, TK to the press box or traded and give Jeffrey a shot at LW.

Yes, I said this idea is predicated on first giving Jeffrey a more extended look at LW on one of the top-3 lines, but the only way TK sees his way out of the line-up is either by this move or by trade. Sending him to the press box would kill his trade value. I still think a lot of teams would be interested in TK, based on his youth, past potential, and "veteran" playoff & winning experience. (perhaps I'd rotate him in with Adams on 4th line RW, but this could also open up a trade possibilty invlolving TK)

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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
This is doomed to fail right off the bat because, evidently, Dustin Jeffrey is a fringe NHLer and sucks.
Yeah, but I don't believe that. I think he could be a very good 2nd/3rd line centre for a lot of teams in this league; and if we get nothig in return and watch him blossom, it will be much worse than what happened with Strait. And based on past performance alone, he deserves to get a more extended look, regardless of the role. First try him on LW for 5-8+ games, and if that doesn't work, then I think my other idea may prove to be a really good one).

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02-16-2013, 07:23 PM
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Ogrezilla
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Let Jeffrey play RW. Or at least move Cooke or Bennett (whichever is playing that line) to RW before Sutter and let Jeffrey play LW.

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02-16-2013, 11:23 PM
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I think it would be great if this team cast its players in the roles they are most likely to succeed in, and consider what is needed to compliment the abilities of our core players.

In other words, when you have one of the better third line C's in the game, who is young and affordable to boot, you consider that one of the "don't mess with" parts of the equation.

As regards our forwards, the only '"don't mess with" parts, are these:

x Crosby x
x Malkin Neal
x Sutter x
x x x

The rest we can experiment on to our hearts content. I would insert Vitale as 4th line C also, but for the feeling that he is the closest thing we have to someone who could do a Talbot on Geno's line, and that would subsequently open a spot for Jeffrey, and thus be a wondrous thing for our cap-management.

Of course, Vitale could also tank completely in such a role, but I honestly think it makes a world of sense looking at the little things Malkin and Neal needs help on being just about exactly what we love in Vitale, all the way to taking draws on Malkin's weak side which would help that line big time as regards retaining possession. Obviously, despite the carousel of players being tried there, Vitale hasn't seen a second there... or higher up in the lineup in general, despite having been gangbusters for us pretty much every single game. So maybe I am onto nothing here...

But to get back to the issue here, I cannot for the life of me see what we are gaining by moving Sutter away from what has made him a very attractive asset in this league.

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02-17-2013, 08:16 AM
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I definitely think Jeffrey has a future in the NHL as a nice 3rd line player that can provide some offense, but I'd just rather have him play wing there. Sutter absolutely has more upside and I want to see the player he can become, and that player will be a more effective one if he grows as a center. As for Jeffrey though, I do think we have badly misplayed him. If BB can play in the top 6 (and I think he will prove he can) and we get ONE more wing, ideally my lineup would be..

Bennett-Crosby-X
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Jeffrey-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Cooke

(yes that means no Adams and that's never going to happen but whatever I'm trying to win a Cup here not cater to one of my 4th liners)

That's a fantastic lineup that would have 3 legit lines that could provide you with offense and a 4th that you wouldn't want to play against.

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02-17-2013, 08:26 AM
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Frederick Stanley
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I'd rather put Cooke on the 1st line instead of the 4th.

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02-17-2013, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
I definitely think Jeffrey has a future in the NHL as a nice 3rd line player that can provide some offense, but I'd just rather have him play wing there. Sutter absolutely has more upside and I want to see the player he can become, and that player will be a more effective one if he grows as a center. As for Jeffrey though, I do think we have badly misplayed him. If BB can play in the top 6 (and I think he will prove he can) and we get ONE more wing, ideally my lineup would be..

Bennett-Crosby-X
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Jeffrey-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Cooke

(yes that means no Adams and that's never going to happen but whatever I'm trying to win a Cup here not cater to one of my 4th liners)

That's a fantastic lineup that would have 3 legit lines that could provide you with offense and a 4th that you wouldn't want to play against.
Bennett earning a spot would do wonders for us right now. Though you put him with Crosby, which I am starting to think we will never see. For whatever reason Disco is completely against trying anyone with him.

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02-17-2013, 08:44 AM
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I'd try Sutter on Malkin's LW, if we were going to try anything.

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02-17-2013, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I'd try Sutter on Malkin's LW, if we were going to try anything.
That's true. Not that I want to do it, but if he's moving from 3C, that makes the most sense.

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02-17-2013, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I'd try Sutter on Malkin's LW, if we were going to try anything.
That's the equivalent of putting Cooke or Kennedy on that line. Sutter will never be more than a good third liner. Guy isn't Staal & can't do the things offensively he could do for us.

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02-17-2013, 09:55 AM
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That's the equivalent of putting Cooke or Kennedy on that line. Sutter will never be more than a good third liner. Guy isn't Staal & can't do the things offensively he could do for us.
he is unquestionably better than Cooke or TK. He's a 3rd liner for sure, but I'd at least say he's on Dupuis' level.

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02-17-2013, 10:03 AM
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Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Sutter - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Jeffrey - Bennett
Glass - Vitale - Adams

Deal Kennedy?

So many third liners on this squad...

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02-17-2013, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
he is unquestionably better than Cooke or TK. He's a 3rd liner for sure, but I'd at least say he's on Dupuis' level.
Points per game

Sutter .38
Kennedy .47
Cooke .38
Dupuis .45

They are actually pretty similar players & if anything Kennedys shown more offensive flare. They are all 3rd liners. That's just reality. Sutter is never going to have the offensive skills to be a 2nd line player in anything other than a pinch.

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02-17-2013, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
That's the equivalent of putting Cooke or Kennedy on that line. Sutter will never be more than a good third liner. Guy isn't Staal & can't do the things offensively he could do for us.
I vehemently disagree. I think Brandon Sutter is still young, and is still developing his offensive game, but I have seen a good offensive IQ, and he has a very underrated shot, IMO. Will he ever be able to carry a line offensively is my question, or will he need someone to feed off of? I personally think he'll need someone to dish him up pucks, which is why seeing Bennett with him currently is interesting.

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02-17-2013, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I vehemently disagree. I think Brandon Sutter is still young, and is still developing his offensive game, but I have seen a good offensive IQ, and he has a very underrated shot, IMO. Will he ever be able to carry a line offensively is my question, or will he need someone to feed off of? I personally think he'll need someone to dish him up pucks, which is why seeing Bennett with him currently is interesting.
I doubt at 24 & over 300+ games played, & after showing very little signs of being an offensive player he is going develop that aspect of his game. I don't know where your seeing his shot as underrated. Guy has no finish. The puck comes off his stick flat & he lacks any offensive creativity. I agree he can get to open areas & has a sense where the pucks going but what happens when he gets open isn't going to produce a lot of points.

I know some people have been trying to believe we might have got a steal but Sutter will never be that player. He's a good defensive third line center who is going to put u around 35-40 points in a full season. Not much more.

That of course is only my opinion on him.

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02-17-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I doubt at 24 & over 300+ games played, & after showing very little signs of being an offensive player he is going develop that aspect of his game. I don't know where your seeing his shot as underrated. Guy has no finish. The puck comes off his stick flat & he lacks any offensive creativity. I agree he can get to open areas & has a sense where the pucks going but what happens when he gets open isn't going to produce a lot of points.

I know some people have been trying to believe we might have got a steal but Sutter will never be that player. He's a good defensive third line center who is going to put u around 35-40 points in a full season. Not much more.

That of course is only my opinion on him.
Have we not learned anything from J. Staal? Sutter has played with garbage his entire career. Relied upon soley as a shutdown center. He's not finished developing.

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02-17-2013, 10:38 AM
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Sutter kind of reminds me of Army. Good defensively and has some sense offensively even though his skill isn't the best.

Thats why I like him on Sids wing. He can find soft spots around the net and put in junk. This also forces Sid to put more pucks on net and thats never a bad things.

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02-17-2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I doubt at 24 & over 300+ games played, & after showing very little signs of being an offensive player he is going develop that aspect of his game. I don't know where your seeing his shot as underrated. Guy has no finish. The puck comes off his stick flat & he lacks any offensive creativity. I agree he can get to open areas & has a sense where the pucks going but what happens when he gets open isn't going to produce a lot of points.

I know some people have been trying to believe we might have got a steal but Sutter will never be that player. He's a good defensive third line center who is going to put u around 35-40 points in a full season. Not much more.

That of course is only my opinion on him.
And you watched Jordan Staal here over 6 years, right?

Sutter has a deceptively hard shot. His problem is that he lacks the guys to get him the puck. I don't think he's a natural playmaker at all, but he will be able to shoot. He has shown signs of being offensive. He showed those signs in Carolina. He has shown that here. What's missing right now is some finish, but I think that will come.

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02-17-2013, 11:46 AM
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Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Points per game

Sutter .38
Kennedy .47
Cooke .38
Dupuis .45

They are actually pretty similar players & if anything Kennedys shown more offensive flare. They are all 3rd liners. That's just reality. Sutter is never going to have the offensive skills to be a 2nd line player in anything other than a pinch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I doubt at 24 & over 300+ games played, & after showing very little signs of being an offensive player he is going develop that aspect of his game. I don't know where your seeing his shot as underrated. Guy has no finish. The puck comes off his stick flat & he lacks any offensive creativity. I agree he can get to open areas & has a sense where the pucks going but what happens when he gets open isn't going to produce a lot of points.

I know some people have been trying to believe we might have got a steal but Sutter will never be that player. He's a good defensive third line center who is going to put u around 35-40 points in a full season. Not much more.

That of course is only my opinion on him.

he did put up 21 goals in a year where he moved up to the 2nd line. I'm not saying he's a legit 2nd liner. But for what we need, he's the best we have. Well, him or Cooke. Both are better than TK on that 2nd line LW.

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02-17-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Let Jeffrey play RW. Or at least move Cooke or Bennett (whichever is playing that line) to RW before Sutter and let Jeffrey play LW.
Was Jeffrey bad on Malkin's line? On paper Jeffrey - Malkin - Neal looks good.

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Jeffrey - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Bennett
Glass - Vitale - Adams
Kennedy

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02-17-2013, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Was Jeffrey bad on Malkin's line? On paper Jeffrey - Malkin - Neal looks good.

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Jeffrey - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Bennett
Glass - Vitale - Adams
Kennedy
He was better than Boychuk or Tangradi so he got benched. For some reason the staff sees him as a bottom sixer when he's produced at every level & besides killing penalties I don't think he's ever been that.

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02-17-2013, 12:46 PM
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Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Was Jeffrey bad on Malkin's line? On paper Jeffrey - Malkin - Neal looks good.

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Jeffrey - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Bennett
Glass - Vitale - Adams
Kennedy
I didn't see him on that line. I missed a few games while i was moving. Can't really comment on him much.

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