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NY Times - Michael Kimmelman Thinks the Garden Should Move

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Old
02-14-2013, 10:40 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...gues-30-arenas

MSG


Boston


Denver


New Jersey


Philly


Nashville


Pittsburgh


LA
One thing I see in common here, is the other arenas are all sponsored by another company. I would assume that puts some extra money towards the building, no?


I love MSG anyway, inside and out. But I have been to some pretty damn nice arenas around the country.

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02-14-2013, 10:52 PM
  #52
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What the hell has happened with the New York Times?

Almost every article I read from them has to be the shoddiest journalism. Glorified op ed pieces, poor data, cherry picking etc. Their interviews are the worst; softball after softball.

Are they trying to lower their standards to the New York Post?

I mean I spend most of news sources either Reuters or Vice.com.

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02-15-2013, 12:52 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
What the hell has happened with the New York Times?

Almost every article I read from them has to be the shoddiest journalism. Glorified op ed pieces, poor data, cherry picking etc. Their interviews are the worst; softball after softball.

Are they trying to lower their standards to the New York Post?

I mean I spend most of news sources either Reuters or Vice.com.
They turned into the toilet paper of record.

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02-15-2013, 12:57 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by KennyWu View Post
One thing I see in common here, is the other arenas are all sponsored by another company. I would assume that puts some extra money towards the building, no?


I love MSG anyway, inside and out. But I have been to some pretty damn nice arenas around the country.
I don't think the sponsoring of a stadium brings in mega bucks to make a huge difference. I could be wrong, but I think its low 7 figures per year.

What I see in common are stadiums and arenas being built where they have leeway to create a beautiful building.

Let's face it. If the Rangers are going to be in Manhattan, they're kind of limited as far as an imaginative, modern building is concerned.

Just look at that sequence of pics. The stadium is the largest building in all of them. MSG looks, literally, like a hockey puck between those skyscrapers.

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02-15-2013, 07:52 AM
  #55
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I don't think the sponsoring of a stadium brings in mega bucks to make a huge difference. I could be wrong, but I think its low 7 figures per year.
Citigroup pays $20 million per year over 20 years for the rights to Citi Field. Barclays pays the same in Brooklyn. When you factor in holding more than twice as many events as Barclays, Brooklyn vs Manhattan, "world's most famous arena", etc it would be a monster number.

But I don't think they will sell the rights. The current name acts as a branding mechanism for the network and the entire corporation. It would probably be called Cablevision Arena before it gets sold elsewhere.

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02-15-2013, 07:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
What the hell has happened with the New York Times?

Almost every article I read from them has to be the shoddiest journalism. Glorified op ed pieces, poor data, cherry picking etc. Their interviews are the worst; softball after softball.

Are they trying to lower their standards to the New York Post?

I mean I spend most of news sources either Reuters or Vice.com.
Times is a bunch of self absorbed liberals. Post has catchy headlines and is a step above the tabloids. I'll go with the Post at least its fun to read and is good for at least one sex scandal a day

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02-16-2013, 12:04 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by theJUMPER View Post
I don't think the sponsoring of a stadium brings in mega bucks to make a huge difference. I could be wrong, but I think its low 7 figures per year.
Madison Square Garden has a significant sponsorship deal w/ JPMorgan Chase. The figures are believed to be 300million over a 10 year period. Other than renaming MSG, "Presented by Chase" or Chase materials are everywhere.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/t...k_sponsorship/

Amtrak effectively killed the move to the Farley Post Office/Monyihan Station. When they decided they would not move (where NJTransit was willing), the plan went downhill.


Last edited by frozenrubber: 02-16-2013 at 12:10 AM.
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02-16-2013, 12:46 AM
  #58
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http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2013...ommunity-board

Quote:
CB5 instead recommended at its full board meeting to approve a 10-year permit for MSG, giving the community time to develop plans to relocate "The World’s Most Famous Arena." Members want the arena to move in order to give room to expand the overcrowded Penn Station below.

Read more: http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2013...#ixzz2L2fnVc1B
Quote:
CB5 also voted to reject MSG's plan to install four 10-story LED signs around the exterior of the building, calling on the city to oppose the proposed LED signs by arguing they would negatively affect nearby residents. They said the signs would confuse tourists into believing that Penn Station's Eighth Avenue entrance was instead an entrance to the arena.

Read more: http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2013...#ixzz2L2fsbScg

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02-16-2013, 08:29 PM
  #59
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This is what they want to build to replace the garden:





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03-28-2013, 01:39 PM
  #60
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Move Madison Square Garden to give Penn Station more space: Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer
The pol says the transit hub is bursting at the seams and has suggested only renewing MSG's permit for another 10 years while the arena looks for a new location.[/SIZE]

By Erin Durkin / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Published: Wednesday, March 27, 2013, 11:58 PM
Updated: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 1:00 AM




Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer has proposed moving Madison Square Garden away from its current location to accommodate the increasing traffic at Penn Station.


Madison Square Garden should be planted somewhere else, a city pol says.
Penn Station is bursting at the seams — and to give it room to expand, the city should refuse to give the Garden an indefinite permit to stay atop the cramped station, Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer argues.
Instead, the city should extend the Garden’s permit — which expired in January — for only 10 years while the arena looks for a new spot, Stringer says.

The Garden recently has sunk nearly $1 billion into a massive renovation, and any deal to move would probably involve big public subsidies.
But Stringer said it’s crucial for the arena to relocate for the third time in its history.


If Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer gets his way, he’ll see Madison Square Garden moved further west to provide more room for the bursting-at-the-seams Penn Station.


“It is time to build a more spacious, attractive and efficient station that will further encourage transit use, reduce driving into the city and spur economic growth,” he says. “While we need to ensure the Garden always has a vibrant and accessible home in Manhattan, moving the arena is an important first step to improving Penn Station.”

Sites that have been suggested include Ninth Ave. and W. 30th St., now the site of a general mail facility, or behind the General Post Office between W. 31st and W. 33rd Sts.
The post office itself will be the future home of Amtrak operations now at Penn Station.
The City Planning Commission and City Council will have final say on the permit, while Stringer’s vote is advisory. The Council might resist giving the Garden what it wants because Cablevision, which arena owner James Dolan also runs, has experienced recent labor strife.
A spokesman for Madison Square Garden said the arena was being “unfairly singled out” since no other sports venue in the city has a time limit on its operations.



http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1300953

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03-28-2013, 02:21 PM
  #61
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Maybe they should move Penn Station so the ice can be consistently harder in MSG.

What a crock of ****. This guy's worried about flashing signs? This is the same Manhattan we are talking about right?

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03-28-2013, 02:24 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...gues-30-arenas

MSG


Boston


Denver


New Jersey


Philly


Nashville


Pittsburgh


LA
Iam a New Yorker.. garden is an amazing venue.. every athlete when they play there elevates there game and they say its their favorite place to play.. people across the media says its the best arena there is to watch a game.. they can easily renovate the outside with a modern look.. noway they rebuild after that reno project, which isnt even done yet hahahah!!! would be funny if they do decide a new venue bc thats a hundreds of millions of dollars wasted..

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03-28-2013, 02:24 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Move Madison Square Garden to give Penn Station more space: Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer
The pol says the transit hub is bursting at the seams and has suggested only renewing MSG's permit for another 10 years while the arena looks for a new location.[/SIZE]

By Erin Durkin / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Published: Wednesday, March 27, 2013, 11:58 PM
Updated: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 1:00 AM




Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer has proposed moving Madison Square Garden away from its current location to accommodate the increasing traffic at Penn Station.


Madison Square Garden should be planted somewhere else, a city pol says.
Penn Station is bursting at the seams — and to give it room to expand, the city should refuse to give the Garden an indefinite permit to stay atop the cramped station, Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer argues.
Instead, the city should extend the Garden’s permit — which expired in January — for only 10 years while the arena looks for a new spot, Stringer says.

The Garden recently has sunk nearly $1 billion into a massive renovation, and any deal to move would probably involve big public subsidies.
But Stringer said it’s crucial for the arena to relocate for the third time in its history.


If Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer gets his way, he’ll see Madison Square Garden moved further west to provide more room for the bursting-at-the-seams Penn Station.


“It is time to build a more spacious, attractive and efficient station that will further encourage transit use, reduce driving into the city and spur economic growth,” he says. “While we need to ensure the Garden always has a vibrant and accessible home in Manhattan, moving the arena is an important first step to improving Penn Station.”

Sites that have been suggested include Ninth Ave. and W. 30th St., now the site of a general mail facility, or behind the General Post Office between W. 31st and W. 33rd Sts.
The post office itself will be the future home of Amtrak operations now at Penn Station.
The City Planning Commission and City Council will have final say on the permit, while Stringer’s vote is advisory. The Council might resist giving the Garden what it wants because Cablevision, which arena owner James Dolan also runs, has experienced recent labor strife.
A spokesman for Madison Square Garden said the arena was being “unfairly singled out” since no other sports venue in the city has a time limit on its operations.



http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1300953
They don't need a brand spanking new terminal to encourage more people to use mass transit. As long as they keep raising tolls every other quarter, people will be forced to use it where ever the station might be.

Where were these people with these ideas before the Garden decided to give itself a face lift? So now Rangers (and Knicks) fans have to pay for the renovations and then will take it in the shorts again when they end up in a brand new building.

I love the Garden, I remember going when I was a kid. I would get that nervous/excited feeling when walking through the tunnel and seeing the ice. I'm 40 now and still get that way. It used to happen at Old Yankee Stadium as well. While the new place is nice, I just get a different feeling when I go there now, who knows maybe I'm just disgusted on how much everything costs there. But many of us grew up at the Garden, I would hate for them to move from there.

I guess if it had to happen, you would think that the post office accross the street would be a logical location. Hell the post office will probably be out of buisness in 10-15 years anyway.

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03-28-2013, 02:25 PM
  #64
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Take over the space from the NY Post office across the street.

Keep the outer structure intact.

Renovate the interior to incorporate an NHL arena and give it all of the modern amenities one could think of.

Make the arena fit 25k fans. Price out 5k seats at $25.00 each.

There would be no more glorious a structure in the NHL.

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03-28-2013, 02:25 PM
  #65
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The Garden recently has sunk nearly $1 billion into a massive renovation, and any deal to move would probably involve big public subsidies.
This. And that is why it won't happen. No way the city of New York would subsidize such a pointless move.

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03-28-2013, 03:08 PM
  #66
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This. And that is why it won't happen. No way the city of New York would subsidize such a pointless move.
Yeah probably not. But ultimately the government has the garden by the balls. Technically they don't have a license to operate right now. They can move to padlock the place at absolutely any time. Obviously that's not going to happen, but if a politician came in wanting to play hardball, he could do make them do whatever he wants

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03-28-2013, 03:15 PM
  #67
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Ok someone correct me if my memory is wrong but didn't Dolan fight with the city for years about building a new garden across the street as part of the new penn station project and the city said no you can't move. So Dolan went ahead and spent nearly a billion $$ to renovate MSG and now that its almost done these clowns want to force him to move were he originally wanted to go anyway but they said no?

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03-28-2013, 03:16 PM
  #68
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so hold on one second. this city and state, which already face budget problems, would heavily burden taxpayers more than they already are to build a new sports arena. this new sports arena would be replaced by an expanded train station, again funded by the government. all the meanwhile, the train station is already being expanded into the post office, at the expense of the government.

thats just the answer though, lets just keep throwing taxpayers money on this project. and for what? what difference is a few billion going to make? is a new train station really going to generate that much revenue to pay for all these projects? you can't bring more trains in unless you build more tracks and more tunnels under the hudson river. i don't see how tearing MSG down will suddenly alleviate these problems.

this wont happen and it shouldnt happen, its a waste of our tax dollars. MSG should stay where it is, provided they give up their tax exemption in return.

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03-28-2013, 03:28 PM
  #69
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this wont happen and it shouldnt happen, its a waste of our tax dollars. MSG should stay where it is, provided they give up their tax exemption in return.
Well, that won't be coming out of Dolan's pocket. He will just raise prices to pick up the tax tag.

As for the idea of moving MSG. The time to consider this was when the Jets wanted the West Side Stadium. Bloomberg could have approached Dolan about also building a new arena at the site instead of having Dolan as an enemy.

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03-28-2013, 03:29 PM
  #70
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Im down. The new MSG is pretty horrible IMO. Don't even enjoy going to games anymore its such a mess with the way they did things.

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03-28-2013, 03:31 PM
  #71
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They don't need a brand spanking new terminal to encourage more people to use mass transit.
Exactly, when I lived on LI, I went through Penn Station for the convenience. When I entered the station, I was not concerned about the ambiance, or the aesthetics. I wanted to get to my train and get home. When my train arrived from LI, again, wasn't concerned. Wasn't looking to hang out in Penn Station. I wanted to get off my train and to my destination.

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03-28-2013, 03:33 PM
  #72
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Iam a New Yorker.. garden is an amazing venue.. every athlete when they play there elevates there game and they say its their favorite place to play.. people across the media says its the best arena there is to watch a game.. they can easily renovate the outside with a modern look.. noway they rebuild after that reno project, which isnt even done yet hahahah!!! would be funny if they do decide a new venue bc thats a hundreds of millions of dollars wasted..
Not sure why the look of the outside of the building matters. People go to the arena for what is going on INSIDE. Besides from, Consol, Denver, Prudential Center, look like office buildings, not arenas.

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03-28-2013, 04:03 PM
  #73
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Secondly, the borough president is out of his league here. He is not going to have any say in what ultimately happens. I did not even know who the manhattan borough president was until I read this article. This will be dealt with by the Mayor, the City council, and Dolan's lawyers.

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03-28-2013, 04:09 PM
  #74
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I never thought i'd be discussing architecture on hfboards.

Anyway, if penn station needs to expand because of increasing transit, that makes sense to me (although it is going to require SO MUCH money), but the idea of building an aesthetically pleasing terminal to encourage public transit seems asinine. Has anyone ever chosen to fly out of Newark Liberty because of the pleasing terminal design? Or chosen not to take NJ transit or the LIRR because they had to walk through Penn Station? People use public transportation (especially in NYC) because it is typically the most convenient/cost-effective option, not to look at pretty buildings.

In regards to the article posted by the OP: I personally love the exterior of the garden as is. It is a landmark, especially at a time when all new sports complexes are being built to look like flying saucers from 50s sci-fi films. It's not like we're talking about the vet or the colisseum here.

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03-28-2013, 04:20 PM
  #75
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Quote:
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I never thought i'd be discussing architecture on hfboards.

Anyway, if penn station needs to expand because of increasing transit, that makes sense to me (although it is going to require SO MUCH money), but the idea of building an aesthetically pleasing terminal to encourage public transit seems asinine. Has anyone ever chosen to fly out of Newark Liberty because of the pleasing terminal design? Or chosen not to take NJ transit or the LIRR because they had to walk through Penn Station? People use public transportation (especially in NYC) because it is typically the most convenient/cost-effective option, not to look at pretty buildings.

In regards to the article posted by the OP: I personally love the exterior of the garden as is. It is a landmark, especially at a time when all new sports complexes are being built to look like flying saucers from 50s sci-fi films. It's not like we're talking about the vet or the colisseum here.
well on top of it.. what do you really think is going to replace MSG? office towers. so i dont get the notion where they're really going to expand penn station

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