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Trade Rumor Thread III: "Trade 40 goal scorer for picks= Cup contenders" edition

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Old
02-16-2013, 10:11 PM
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
One that can replace MDZ's production? Good luck.
Has to be top 4. Stralman can be used on the PP. Staal, Girardi and McDonagh can be used on the Pp.

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02-16-2013, 10:11 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Really? EJ is playing top pairing in Colorado, big guy at 6'5. Another Minnesotan.

O'Reilly would be the teams best overall center.
No he would not. I know Richards is off to a poor start but he's not better than Richards, let's be real.

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02-16-2013, 10:11 PM
  #203
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Here's the O'Reilly write-up from the 12/13 Hockey Prospectus Annual:

Quote:
Ryan O'Reilly, the youngest player in Colorado/Quebec franchise history, scored 26 points in each of his two seasons as a teenager, establishing himself as a strong defensive forward and penalty killer, much as he was in the OHL when he won an award for the latter. Last year, however, he found instant chemistry with Rookie of the Year Gabriel Landeskog, and together they not only shut down opposing top lines, but also busted out offensively. Colorado rewarded O'Reilly with lots of extra ice time, including work on the first power play unit, where he scored 4.76 PPP/60. O'Reilly also won 52.8% of faceoffs, led the team with 3.8 takeaways/60, and once again drew over three times as many penalties as he took.
He posted an 11.0 GVT (Which is a hockey equivalent of WAR in baseball. I realize many put down advanced statistics, but I think it provides an additional frame of reference.)

For reference, Stepan also recorded an 11.0 GVT. Del Zotto posted a 12.6 GVT.

He's definitely a good player.


Last edited by Colby: 02-16-2013 at 10:16 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old
02-16-2013, 10:12 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I don't think Johnson is a premier defenseman.
You're not alone either. I read a q & a with Doug Armstrong after he traded EJ. Question was asking him if it was difficult to trade a no 1 pick, especially so quickly considering he missed a year, was an olympian, and the answer Doug Armstrong gave was blunt to put it simply.

In other words he had no qualms pulling the trigger on the deal. Should say something if he's available again.

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02-16-2013, 10:12 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
He was used primarily in a defensive role as Duchene and Stastny got the offensive minutes. At 18 and 19 he was playing nightly against the other teams best players. Staple on the PK.

If you watch him play you would get it (not saying this as a bashing just hard to explain as stats don't tell the whole story)
I understand that, but I'm not bringing him in here to be a shut down defensive minded center, if he comes here and we give up someone like MDZ, I want goals and points.

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02-16-2013, 10:12 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
No he would not. I know Richards is off to a poor start but he's not better than Richards, let's be real.
He is better defensively. And hes 11 years younger.

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02-16-2013, 10:13 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
I wouldn't do O'Reilly for MDZ straight up.
You wouldn't ?? Muhahahaha!

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02-16-2013, 10:13 PM
  #208
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Regardless, the Avs wanted MORE than just Del Zotto for ROR, whats the +? apparently they want 2 players, a prospect and/or pick.. not interested in that.

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02-16-2013, 10:15 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
No he would not. I know Richards is off to a poor start but he's not better than Richards, let's be real.
Defensively Richards isn't close. Likewise, offensively Richards is better than O'Reilly

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02-16-2013, 10:15 PM
  #210
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When Corey Pronman over at Hockey Prospectus did his Top 50 under 23 rankings last fall, O'Reilly checked in at 17th. Del Zotto was 28th. Stepan was 34th.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1398

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02-16-2013, 10:15 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
You wouldn't ?? Muhahahaha!
Nope, not on this Rangers team. If they had another D man that could fill in the top 4 spot and be effective offensively ... then it's a no brainer. But trades are not always good based on player A > player B. This trade would not be good for a team lacking chemistry as is ... especially offensively.

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02-16-2013, 10:16 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I understand that, but I'm not bringing him in here to be a shut down defensive minded center, if he comes here and we give up someone like MDZ, I want goals and points.
Agreed. The idea is he is 21-22, already scored 55 points AND is more than solid defensively. He turns defense into offense.

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02-16-2013, 10:16 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
You wouldn't ?? Muhahahaha!
Let's do Colton Orr for Del Zotto! Seriously, have you had a post that wasn't saying how terrible Del Zotto or Staal are?

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02-16-2013, 10:16 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Defensively Richards isn't close. Likewise, offensively Richards is better than O'Reilly
I was not questioning defensively ... offensively.

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02-16-2013, 10:17 PM
  #215
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I dont really see where this team is "lacking offensively" at the moment?.. Have people been watching the games lately? We got off to a slow start, but they are scoring goals now.

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02-16-2013, 10:17 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
Nope, not on this Rangers team. If they had another D man that could fill in the top 4 spot and be effective offensively ... then it's a no brainer. But trades are not always good based on player A > player B. This trade would not be good for a team lacking chemistry as is ... especially offensively.
Very true and that has to be looked at. That's why a defenseman has to be coming back capable of playing significant minutes.

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02-16-2013, 10:18 PM
  #217
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I'm not saying O'Reilly is not a young talent that should not be aggressively pursued, HOWEVER when making a trade you must trade from STRENGTH for WEAKNESS .. that's what makes the TEAM better. This trade does not do that.

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02-16-2013, 10:18 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Let's do Colton Orr for Del Zotto! Seriously, have you had a post that wasn't saying how terrible Del Zotto or Staal are?
Yes.

You forgot how horrible Derek Stepan is.

Someone fill me in on what types of players Colarado has at RD, excluding EJ. Any puck movers? Guys that won't cost a ton?

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02-16-2013, 10:18 PM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Very true and that has to be looked at. That's why a defenseman has to be coming back capable of playing significant minutes.
well if you believe Avs fans, everyone defensemen they have is horrible...

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02-16-2013, 10:19 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I dont really see where this team is "lacking offensively" at the moment?.. Have people been watching the games lately? We got off to a slow start, but they are scoring goals now.
They've been inconsistent honestly ... and the main point is you don't have a lot of production (offensively) from the blue line and yet you want to deal MDZ? It just doesn't make sense.

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02-16-2013, 10:20 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
I wouldn't do O'Reilly for MDZ straight up.
Me either. I'd trade Stepan for ROR straight up, which might make sense considering ROR isn't signed to a contract.

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Old
02-16-2013, 10:20 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
well if you believe Avs fans, everyone defensemen they have is horrible...
EJ hasn't looked terrible. He has no help. Hejda has been bad. EJ has been asked to play 25 minutes in all situations before now. They asked him to concentrate on defense for now because the guy can't do everything. Still a very good top 2 dman on most teams.

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02-16-2013, 10:20 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
I'm not saying O'Reilly is not a young talent that should not be aggressively pursued, HOWEVER when making a trade you must trade from STRENGTH for WEAKNESS .. that's what makes the TEAM better. This trade does not do that.
thats exactly what this trade does.

Center with Richards being benched is the weakest part of this team.

Stepan is a very good #2.

Then they have what else? Boyle who should be a 4th liner, Miller who probably will get sent back down to minors, and then Halpern and Powe?

On defense they have 3 all-stars, Stralman has been a very solid player lately. And this trade would get another defenseman in return, probably a right handed guy with a shot and some ability to move the puck.

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02-16-2013, 10:20 PM
  #224
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The reason this is appealing is not that folks want to get rid of MDZ, but rather because MDZ is not a good fit for the Rangers. His value increases dramatically when he plays the left side, but there are precious few minutes there with Staal and McD.

Furthermore, his PMD skills aren't that much better than either Staal's or McD's. If he was actually Brian Leetch on the point, it would be a different story, but unfortunately his best value comes on the rush, NOT once the team is set up in the zone. And both of those players are also fully capable of moving the puck up on the rush. In fact, I think if MDZ were to leave and Torts were to put McD in his place, we'd see Ryan approach his point totals. The only skill that MDZ has where he is head and shoulders above the other two is the stretch pass.

If you can get ROR for him - and get a right handed defenseman with offensive talent back - it's got to be looked at. The issues I have are a) ROR's contract demands and b) the fact that this team has had so much turnover and just needs time to gel.

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02-16-2013, 10:22 PM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
They've been inconsistent honestly ... and the main point is you don't have a lot of production (offensively) from the blue line and yet you want to deal MDZ? It just doesn't make sense.
early on yes, I mentioned that. however, they have scored 3 goals or more 8 times this season. with our defensve and Hank in net, that should absolutely be enough to win most nights.

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