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Now Irving has been demoted

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Old
02-16-2013, 09:58 PM
  #76
StreakingRed
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Originally Posted by CoRD View Post
Yeah he just simply wasn't good enough. Blame the D all you want but he wasn't convincing anybody as to why he should be here.

Agreed.

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02-16-2013, 10:04 PM
  #77
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Irving was not good as a starter.
he was horrible in abbotsford as well. i saw one of his few starts where he allowed 5 goals against marlies.
i dont wanna give up just yet, but he is not nhl ready as of now. period.

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02-16-2013, 10:04 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Flamesrule View Post
The organization has just ruined Irving by sending him down to the AHL. Brust will get the majority of the starts.

And Irving has played well this past few weeks. Some of are being way too critical of Irving, he's only played seven NHL games. What do you expect to see when someone hasn't play a lot in the past twelve months?
On that topic, Cory Schneider in his first 8 games in the NHL put up a 2-4-1 record with a 3.38 GAA and a 0.877 SV%. But clearly, he's a bust too.

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02-16-2013, 10:16 PM
  #79
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Not very impressed. But goalies are a different creature over forwards.
Something happening in Calgary yet

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02-16-2013, 10:40 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Irving was not good as a starter.
he was horrible in abbotsford as well. i saw one of his few starts where he allowed 5 goals against marlies.
i dont wanna give up just yet, but he is not nhl ready as of now. period.
I disagree with the idea that Irving is not NHL ready. Now, I will say he was horrible at the slower paced AHL, but he was the third stringer. He did not see much practice nor did he see many games. This equated to him letting in on average 3 goals on 8 shots and being pulled before the first period ended. But if Irving was not NHL ready, we would have been slaughtered during his third peruod start against the Red Wings.

Now, is he an elite goalie? No. Is he starter material? No. But keep in mind the small number of games he has played, the offensive talent he has faced, and the sketchy defensive play of the Flames while you evaluate him. Even Holtby from the Capitals, who was awesome in the AHL, struggling now.

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02-16-2013, 11:47 PM
  #81
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In an 82 game season, maybe we would. This season, there's no time to **** around. We needed Irving to play lights out fast, or we will find someone else who will. This is not his time. Will he get his time here? Doubtful at this point.
That is ****ing retarded and we all know it. We are risking ruining Irving and losing him because this team wants to try and force a playoff run. That might be the worse logic I have ever heard " We want to make the playoffs so lets get rid of the prospect that has been winning us games and hope someone else works out in the future"

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02-17-2013, 12:09 AM
  #82
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At the end of the day, Irving was playing third fiddle in the AHL, was okay in the NHL, but still requires quite a bit of polish.
Goalies, as I've said before are a different type of creature all together. You can draft one first overall, and there's about equal chances that the one you draft 205th overall might end up better down the road.

Some people are getting a little crazy blowing this out of proportion. Joey Mac gives Calgary the best chance to win, so he's going to be playing. Maybe Irving can find his groove again in Abby, and he'll get another chance.

But who knows, something's happening in Calgary, I really am wondering what it is.

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02-17-2013, 12:12 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Miokid View Post
At the end of the day, Irving was playing third fiddle in the AHL, was okay in the NHL, but still requires quite a bit of polish.
Goalies, as I've said before are a different type of creature all together. You can draft one first overall, and there's about equal chances that the one you draft 205th overall might end up better down the road.

Some people are getting a little crazy blowing this out of proportion. Joey Mac gives Calgary the best chance to win, so he's going to be playing. Maybe Irving can find his groove again in Abby, and he'll get another chance.

But who knows, something's happening in Calgary, I really am wondering what it is.
******** that has no proof and he didn't look any better last night than Irving has in Calgary.

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02-17-2013, 12:23 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
******** that has no proof and he didn't look any better last night than Irving has in Calgary.
He has played at the NHL level, pretty decently.
Calm down fan favorite.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:24 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
******** that has no proof and he didn't look any better last night than Irving has in Calgary.
yes he did, he made several big saves and it should've been more like 7-2. irving got pulled early and he should've gotten more of a chance but i don't blame hartley at all.

either way i'm more comfortable with macdonald in net.

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02-17-2013, 12:30 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Miokid View Post
He has played at the NHL level, pretty decently.
Calm down fan favorite.
There are a ton of nhlers that have had their nhl jobs stolen by rookies if we are only going by past success lets just sign Hasek.

In fact last year Macdonald didn't even have significant better numbers than Irving.

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Originally Posted by GirouxFlamesFan View Post
yes he did, he made several big saves and it should've been more like 7-2. irving got pulled early and he should've gotten more of a chance but i don't blame hartley at all.

either way i'm more comfortable with macdonald in net.
He made several big saves in 1 game so did Irving, the fact is Macdonald didn't look any better than Irving has in the majority of his games in the nhl.

This is the same sort sightedness this team always has with prospects, we always take the decent vet versus trying do make our own prospects into something better then the decent vet.

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02-17-2013, 12:35 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
There are a ton of nhlers that have had their nhl jobs stolen by rookies if we are only going by past success lets just sign Hasek.

In fact last year Macdonald didn't even have significant better numbers than Irving.



He made several big saves in 1 game so did Irving, the fact is Macdonald didn't look any better than Irving has in the majority of his games in the nhl.

This is the same sort sightedness this team always has with prospects, we always take the decent vet versus trying do make our own prospects into something better then the decent vet.
I'm going to come out and say you've seen 2 Joey Mac games his entire career. One was from last night, and another might be when he played Calgary a bit ago lol.

Calm down fan fav, this is not going to kill Irving. If anything it should push him, hell, I see 4 prospects about the same age as him in the system that are kicking some major ass. Should light a fire under his ass. Not like Calgary's ritually killing Irving at center ice to win a game bro. Calm down.

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02-17-2013, 12:40 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Miokid View Post
I'm going to come out and say you've seen 2 Joey Mac games his entire career. One was from last night, and another might be when he played Calgary a bit ago lol.

Calm down fan fav, this is not going to kill Irving. If anything it should push him, hell, I see 4 prospects about the same age as him in the system that are kicking some major ass. Should light a fire under his ass. Not like Calgary's ritually killing Irving at center ice to win a game bro. Calm down.
Yea I have no idea who he is in fact I only watch Flames games. The fact that the team feels the need to send him down to light a fire under him after a bad game is stupid we should support prospects not punish them for every mistake. Again Macdonald hasn't proven to be better than Irving. Also what 4 prospects are we talking about?

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02-17-2013, 01:09 AM
  #89
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Wow so much over reaction in this thread. Irving has not played great, he can be sent down for free so why not give Taylor a shot? He has been great in Abby and if he plays great here I'm sure you'll all calm down.

Its definitely better to have an experienced goalie in the lineup than two have two noobs (Irving/Taylor). Two young goalies could get shelled game in game out and then you'd be complaining we're "ruining" both. Being sent down is not going to ruin Irving, and if he walks or demands a trade so what? We could get a 5th for him? Geez

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02-17-2013, 01:24 AM
  #90
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I'm not happy with it either. Not with just sending him down, but his management last year too.

You don't give up on these guys that easy, especially based on stats. That's like trading away Horak because he only has 12 points in 64 games. Anyone who's seen Horak knows he makes mistakes and isn't ready for the top 6. But you still don't give up.

Besides, our defensive game has been terrible this year.

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02-17-2013, 01:24 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Yea I have no idea who he is in fact I only watch Flames games. The fact that the team feels the need to send him down to light a fire under him after a bad game is stupid we should support prospects not punish them for every mistake. Again Macdonald hasn't proven to be better than Irving. Also what 4 prospects are we talking about?
If you consider his past history Joey oey has proven himself to be better than Irving both Ahl and NHL wise. Irving strongest season was his draft year but he hasn't really duplicated those numbers since then.

He hasn't gotten the benefit of the doubt either but I'd imagine he really needed to come in and knock our socks off and instead he was '' ok''. I see him as a decent backup though but I don't see any elite skill from him yet.

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02-17-2013, 01:32 AM
  #92
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I can't believe the criticism that Irving is getting here. His stats may not be the greatest but if you actually watched the games you would realize the amazing saves he has made, regardless if some of the goals weren't great. Just because he was 3rd string in the AHL does not mean he can't play in the NHL. He has proven he could be a solid backup in the NHL and has potential to be the starter in the future for the Flames. It may just be that I'm a HUGE Irving fan, but Joey MacDonald may have the experience, but does not seem any better (in fact he looks worse) than Irving has over the past couple of games.

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02-17-2013, 01:39 AM
  #93
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If you consider his past history Joey oey has proven himself to be better than Irving both Ahl and NHL wise. Irving strongest season was his draft year but he hasn't really duplicated those numbers since then.

He hasn't gotten the benefit of the doubt either but I'd imagine he really needed to come in and knock our socks off and instead he was '' ok''. I see him as a decent backup though but I don't see any elite skill from him yet.
The fact is I don't have a problem with letting Macdonald play or Taylor my problem is the way this team treats its prospects. We expect them to come in and preform better than the veterans or else we send them back down, and all it steams from this idea of playoffs or bust. This team isn't going to give any goalie good numbers so look at past numbers of Macdonald isn't all that useful he played in a great defensive team in Detroit. I am not mad that we are giving another goalie a chance to play some games my problem is as long as this mentality exists we won't develop our own players. For me this is more of an issue with the thought process of the management then it is with this particular player.

This move shows me that we still aren't ready to give our prospects a real chance nor are we taking the state of this franchise seriously. If we were a perennial playoff team that was just looking for a stop gap while Kipper was out Macdonald would make alot of sense but we aren't we are an aging team that is lacking young impacting players, and instead of trying to develop Irving here (where he needs to play to learn to be an nhl goalie) we send him down and will try to patch the position and this means we mostly likely are going to go into next season with all our eggs in the Ramo basket.

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02-17-2013, 02:24 AM
  #94
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Not even remotely true.
How is it not even remotely true? He played 6 games in for Abbotsford this season before the lockout ended and his GAA and SV% was worse then the 6 games in the NHL this season. He got outplayed last season in the AHL as well by Taylor. He needs to prove he can handle AHL shooters before facing the big boys.

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02-17-2013, 02:45 AM
  #95
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How is it not even remotely true? He played 6 games in for Abbotsford this season before the lockout ended and his GAA and SV% was worse then the 6 games in the NHL this season. He got outplayed last season in the AHL as well by Taylor. He needs to prove he can handle AHL shooters before facing the big boys.
You mean like having a Sv% above .92 and a GAA below 2?

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02-17-2013, 04:33 AM
  #96
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I can't believe the criticism that Irving is getting here. His stats may not be the greatest but if you actually watched the games you would realize the amazing saves he has made, regardless if some of the goals weren't great. Just because he was 3rd string in the AHL does not mean he can't play in the NHL. He has proven he could be a solid backup in the NHL and has potential to be the starter in the future for the Flames. It may just be that I'm a HUGE Irving fan, but Joey MacDonald may have the experience, but does not seem any better (in fact he looks worse) than Irving has over the past couple of games.
To be perfectly fair I think you are just a big Irving fan. I haven't watched him much in the AHL, but in the games we've seen up to date, I just don't see the #1 factor there. He makes ok saves but he is so scrambly and all he does most of the time is goes into butterfly and players rip it past him up high. His rebound control is not really good either. I don't think he has made many "amazing" saves though maybe thats because I'm used to seeing Kipper make those kinds of stops. On the other hand I have watched MacDonald for several years since he became the backup in Detroit. Sure he is a 3rd string goaltender, sometimes he really over achieves and people think he looks like a #1 but he can't do it for more than a few games at a time. He isn't nearly as scrambly though and has the experience of facing NHL shooters more.

Irving I think at best becomes a decent backup, probably likely better than Joey even I'd expect, but currently he doesn't have anywhere near the experience level of Joey and I think it really shows. I have not seen ANY game and I've watched all this season with Irving in net, that has led me to believe he has that ability to be a starter. He has little to no big game save ability and that is really key in a starter goalie. The saves that I'm talking about is like Allen's save on Brodie the other night. A flash of higher skill so to speak.

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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
The fact is I don't have a problem with letting Macdonald play or Taylor my problem is the way this team treats its prospects. We expect them to come in and preform better than the veterans or else we send them back down, and all it steams from this idea of playoffs or bust. This team isn't going to give any goalie good numbers so look at past numbers of Macdonald isn't all that useful he played in a great defensive team in Detroit. I am not mad that we are giving another goalie a chance to play some games my problem is as long as this mentality exists we won't develop our own players. For me this is more of an issue with the thought process of the management then it is with this particular player.

This move shows me that we still aren't ready to give our prospects a real chance nor are we taking the state of this franchise seriously. If we were a perennial playoff team that was just looking for a stop gap while Kipper was out Macdonald would make alot of sense but we aren't we are an aging team that is lacking young impacting players, and instead of trying to develop Irving here (where he needs to play to learn to be an nhl goalie) we send him down and will try to patch the position and this means we mostly likely are going to go into next season with all our eggs in the Ramo basket.
My only theory into them not giving Irving is a chance is because they have basically written him off. We have seen tons of goalies that have started off worse and teams just ride them until they get better, but those are almost always in the case where the team is either tanking or they believe the goalie will become better (see Steve Mason previously). I think given the language we are seeing in the crease, I think management no longer has any faith in Irving. It could be a lack of a real chance before or an actual lack of ability, we don't know. But dimes to nickles I bet they only sign Irving next year if he is willing to take a two way deal (assuming his current play doesn't change).

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02-17-2013, 09:19 AM
  #97
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I can't believe the criticism that Irving is getting here.
I don't either. He's done everything the team has asked (Filling in for Kipper while he's injured) and has been punished for it.

He does need polish. He does need further coaching and development. He is on the verge of being a lost cause. But all of this will not be dealt with properly with him sitting on the bench at Abby. It will not be resolved with the threats of benching and demotion hanging over him every time he takes the ice.

Whatever happened to the principle that people learn from failure? But to learn you also have to play.

I wish Irving well and hope his next team treats him a bit more fairly than the Flames.

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02-17-2013, 09:24 AM
  #98
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To be perfectly fair I think you are just a big Irving fan. I haven't watched him much in the AHL, but in the games we've seen up to date, I just don't see the #1 factor there. He makes ok saves ... I bet they only sign Irving next year if he is willing to take a two way deal (assuming his current play doesn't change).
You make it sound like there's something wrong with cheering on a player your favourite team has drafted and developed and given a chance to play.

What you're watching is a young goalie trying to find his way in the league. There are going to be ups and downs. There are going to be games when he's back on the bench after bad goals. The problem with Flames' management right now is that they don't seem to be living in the real world and rebuilding the way they should. They don't even seem to understand how a development system works.

Irving has been given a chance and has shown that he can be as good, bad, and ugly as any other young goalie. I don't know why fans and his team have given up on him so badly so quickly.

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02-17-2013, 09:50 AM
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I'm not happy with it either. Not with just sending him down, but his management last year too.

You don't give up on these guys that easy, especially based on stats. That's like trading away Horak because he only has 12 points in 64 games. Anyone who's seen Horak knows he makes mistakes and isn't ready for the top 6. But you still don't give up.

Besides, our defensive game has been terrible this year.

The Flames have no confidence in Irving. If they thought he would be a long term prospect, they would have given him the #1 job in the AHL, they would not have waived him at the beginning of the season.

They have no plan for him. He was nothing but a lightly used backup for Kipper. Now with Kipper being out, they need somebody that can play and they dont want to trust Irving with that.

Unfortunately for him, he proved to them again that they are correct...so he is gone, probably for good now.

Surprised, another first round bust....why is Todd Button still around?

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02-17-2013, 09:52 AM
  #100
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While I believe Irving has not been that bad in the games he's played, I think some of you are a little to biased on him. Bottom line, Irving has not done enough to secure his starting job. Many of you are looking at all the great saves he's made and forget to realize the squeakers he let in almost every game. Those are the ones that NHL experience will help, and Irving simply doesn't have that. They gave him a shot to see what he can do, maybe they we're expecting to much from him but they have no choice. Clearly, the team is pushing for the playoffs so their goal is to win, and if Irving doesn't go beyond what his expectations are then someone else is gona get the shot. This in no way means that their dumping Irving and MacDonald is the official starter. If MacDonald struggles he will lose his spot as well. The reason they brought down Irving is first of all, he doesn't have to clear waivers, and they want to see what Taylor can do.

Don't get me wrong, I think Irving has done a good job based on what was expected of him, but it is clear that management wants more, is that too much to ask? Maybe, but if they don't get it they will give someone else a chance who MIGHT just give it to them and if they don't do any better we could very well see Irving back in nets. I no many of you think Irving has potential and I do as well, but you need to understand that the organization is not focused on developing their young players (or else we wouldn't of seen Sven on the 4th line, and yes I know it was just one game so don't jump me).. They are trying to put the best team possible, and just like Hartley does with the defense in trying to make it competitive, he's doing the same with the goalies.

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