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The Winger Acquisition Thread | Part III: In Search of Wingers with Reverent Hands

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Old
02-16-2013, 07:16 PM
  #976
Riptide
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Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
I'm a bit confused. I was responding to Jags commmenting on the Semin-induced madness here.

Kane is what he is. I wouldn't mind him on the Pens per se, but he wouldn't be my first choice.
Oh I agree. Not a huge fan of his. My point was that just because LA and Boston won the cup with pure gritty skilled guys (Carter, Richards, Kopi, Brown, Horton, Lucic, Bergeron, etc) doesn't mean that teams with more skill than grit can't win. Kane was a huge part of his teams win.

I think when you stack up pure skill (Ottawa's cup run) vs skilled gritty guys, the grit will likely win out. So it's all about balance. But having 1 pure skilled guy like Semin/PMB doesn't mean we can't win.

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02-16-2013, 07:21 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by One87 View Post
That's not too hard a thing to accomplish when you've been mishandled. He plays top 6 minutes or nothing at all. And yet Edmonton keeps playing him on the 3rd line or not at all. What makes you think he can't play? And don't say what he can't do in the NHL because no one truly knows based on how poorly Edmonton has groomed him.
Yes he needs to be a top 6 guy to be effective... but what would you give up for him? I wouldn't do Despres. MPS hasn't shown much at this point (even mismanaged) to warrant us giving up one of our top D prospects for him. Whatever I'd actually be willing to give up wouldn't be worth it to Edmonton to actually do. Their best bet is to use him as part of a different deal. Either for a better top 4 guy, or something else.

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02-16-2013, 09:52 PM
  #978
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Shero is a silly guy. Well I missed out on Parise. Eric Tangradi will make a damn good plan b. Even though he's never been good or shown any hint of skill, I think he will work great with Malkin.

Oh Semin is still available? No thanks. He might not get a long with disco because he isn't a steaming pile of **** and actually has skill.

We have so many damn dmen we are literally giving them away (Lovejoy, strait, michalek) but the ass clown refuses to draft forwards.

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02-16-2013, 09:56 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
Shero is a silly guy. Well I missed out on Parise. Eric Tangradi will make a damn good plan b. Even though he's never been good or shown any hint of skill, I think he will work great with Malkin.

Oh Semin is still available? No thanks. He might not get a long with disco because he isn't a steaming pile of **** and actually has skill.

We have so many damn dmen we are literally giving them away (Lovejoy, strait, michalek) but the ass clown refuses to draft forwards.
Eric Tangradi was here well before Shero tried going after Parise, so I'm not sure how he was a plan B?

I wouldn't want Semin and his salary or his attitude.

Michalek wanted to leave. Better defensemen replaced Strait and Lovejoy.

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02-16-2013, 09:56 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Oh I agree. Not a huge fan of his. My point was that just because LA and Boston won the cup with pure gritty skilled guys (Carter, Richards, Kopi, Brown, Horton, Lucic, Bergeron, etc) doesn't mean that teams with more skill than grit can't win. Kane was a huge part of his teams win.

I think when you stack up pure skill (Ottawa's cup run) vs skilled gritty guys, the grit will likely win out. So it's all about balance. But having 1 pure skilled guy like Semin/PMB doesn't mean we can't win.
That Anaheim team wasn't just grit though it had absurd skill. Pronger and Niedermayer? Getzlaf? Selanne? Penner before he sucked? Good luck.

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02-16-2013, 10:09 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Really?

I guess everyone really took his Crosby comments to heart. I saw it as gamesmanship between two heated (at the time) rivals.

I can't imagine Semin being anything other than thrilled to play next to either a fellow countryman (and MVP) or the best player in the league to solidify his stats (and value) for his next contract. Not to mention having a legit shot at the Cup. We all hope. Carolina was a bit of a gamble.

In any case. It didn't happen... so oh well. It just stings a bit when you consider how glaring holes (plural) could have potentially been fixed with one signing until something more long term was figured out.
The Pens have seen a lot of Semin over the past few years (heh), including the playoffs, where we need better results.

Semin has 12 points in his last 30 playoff games, and that 7 mil per deal would've prevented us from making any other acquisitions at the deadline...including on the defense if Martin and Orpik didn't bounce back from garbage seasons last year.

He could've helped us in more than a few ways, but that contract would've handcuffed us too much for a guy who has a history of coming up short when it counts, and for a team that had bigger question marks coming into this season. IMHO.

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02-16-2013, 10:18 PM
  #982
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Realistically what is a short list of the wingers we could get from non contenders broken down into short term contracts and long term contracts? Can anyone build one to try and re-center this conversation again?

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02-16-2013, 10:21 PM
  #983
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Paajarvi (it's not Paajarvi-Svensson or MPS anymore btw) is turning into nothing more than a 3rd liner. His offensive skill is decent but it's not top 6 good and doesn't look to be getting any better. He is an outstanding defensive player though. He is not being mismanaged by the Oilers - he's being used the way he should be and will probably end up being a very good 3rd liner for a long time. If anything he was overvalued as some kind of offensive force leading up to the draft whereas it's actually the opposite.

He would look good on the 3rd line here but he is most likely not any teams answer in the top 6.

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02-16-2013, 10:27 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
That Anaheim team wasn't just grit though it had absurd skill. Pronger and Niedermayer? Getzlaf? Selanne? Penner before he sucked? Good luck.
Kunitz too

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02-16-2013, 10:39 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Kunitz too
Hah. How could I forget? I honestly think that Anaheim team was the best post lockout cup winner. Having two hall of fame defensemen still more or less in their primes is unbelievable.

The equivalent now would be if a team had like, Chara and Karlsson.

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02-16-2013, 11:03 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Eric Tangradi was here well before Shero tried going after Parise, so I'm not sure how he was a plan B?

I wouldn't want Semin and his salary or his attitude.

Michalek wanted to leave. Better defensemen replaced Strait and Lovejoy.
Who started off the season playing with Geno and Neal?

Shero thought that Tangradi had potential to play on the top 6 since he signed no one else

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02-16-2013, 11:04 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
But I think this is also the wrong approach. If I were Shero, I'd get a Kunitz for each line, not a Semin or Kovalev.

Perhaps the issue is partially with Byslma (who has the greatest amount of success with a very specific mix of speed and grit) and partially with our roster. But I highly highly doubt just adding soft wingers would solve anything anyway.

The mid-to-late 90's teams alone should be proof that you can't skill your way to victory in a more defensive NHL.
ONE soft, skilled winger would not kill us would it? We have all the Kunitz's we need.

Now, a Ryane Clowe brings a different element altogether to the party. A true power forward. THAT I would want. Jarome Iginla. Yes. Corey Perry, definitely.

But no more complementary wingers please. If we have to bring in one soft scoring winger, we shouldn't be in trouble. It just means the guys who have grit better damn use it.

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02-16-2013, 11:08 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
Hah. How could I forget? I honestly think that Anaheim team was the best post lockout cup winner. Having two hall of fame defensemen still more or less in their primes is unbelievable.

The equivalent now would be if a team had like, Chara and Karlsson.
Or, two centers like say Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin.

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02-16-2013, 11:11 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
ONE soft, skilled winger would not kill us would it? We have all the Kunitz's we need.

Now, a Ryane Clowe brings a different element altogether to the party. A true power forward. THAT I would want. Jarome Iginla. Yes. Corey Perry, definitely.

But no more complementary wingers please. If we have to bring in one soft scoring winger, we shouldn't be in trouble. It just means the guys who have grit better damn use it.
I want one more scorer and one better complimentary wings. We need the scorer, we could use the complimentary guy. Kunitz and Dupuis are both complimentary guys, but Dupuis ideally should get bumped to the third by a better complimentary guy. But if we can only get one new wing, I want it to be someone with skill to bump either Kunitz or Dupuis down with Geno and Neal.

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02-16-2013, 11:13 PM
  #990
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Clowe isn't a power forward anymore. He doesn't go to the tough areas. Maybe a change of scenary would help, but he's slow as **** and doubt Shero would view him too highy in our system.

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02-16-2013, 11:15 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I want one more scorer and one better complimentary wings. We need the scorer, we could use the complimentary guy. Kunitz and Dupuis are both complimentary guys, but Dupuis ideally should get bumped to the third by a better complimentary guy. But if we can only get one new wing, I want it to be someone with skill to bump either Kunitz or Dupuis down with Geno and Neal.
Any new complementary guy for the top six needs to be a power forward type. A guy with size. Possibly someone who can even drop the gloves. A guy who may be able to stand in front of the net. That type of player.

I really don't want anymore Chris Kunitz types. Most aren't nearly as effective as Kunitz, making them tweeners rather than top six locks.

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02-16-2013, 11:16 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Any new complementary guy for the top six needs to be a power forward type. A guy with size. Possibly someone who can even drop the gloves. A guy who may be able to stand in front of the net. That type of player.

I really don't want anymore Chris Kunitz types. Most aren't nearly as effective as Kunitz, making them tweeners rather than top six locks.
That would be ideal certainly.

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02-16-2013, 11:20 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Or, two centers like say Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin.
Touche. We should be about as unstoppable as that Anaheim team was, but we keep shooting ourselves in the foot in the playoffs.

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02-16-2013, 11:23 PM
  #994
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Brad Boyes is very cap friendly.

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02-16-2013, 11:23 PM
  #995
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Any new complementary guy for the top six needs to be a power forward type. A guy with size. Possibly someone who can even drop the gloves. A guy who may be able to stand in front of the net. That type of player.

I really don't want anymore Chris Kunitz types. Most aren't nearly as effective as Kunitz, making them tweeners rather than top six locks.
People rag on Stewart on this board, but he fits that description far more than Clowe. And he has the wheels to be effective in our system.

There's a reason Sharks fans don't want to keep him. He's been much more of a perimeter player for awhile now. Slow as ****. And not contributing.

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02-16-2013, 11:26 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
Hah. How could I forget? I honestly think that Anaheim team was the best post lockout cup winner. Having two hall of fame defensemen still more or less in their primes is unbelievable.

The equivalent now would be if a team had like, Chara and Karlsson.
Boy, the coach/GM must've really ****ed up to have lost in the 1st and 2nd rounds in the following years with those players on the team.

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Brad Boyes is very cap friendly.
Now there's an idea...

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02-16-2013, 11:35 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
Who started off the season playing with Geno and Neal?

Shero thought that Tangradi had potential to play on the top 6 since he signed no one else
And thankfully he didn't sign Semin to the deal he got. Ray tried getting Parise, but it didn't work out. Can't hate him for that.

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02-16-2013, 11:43 PM
  #998
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
And thankfully he didn't sign Semin to the deal he got. Ray tried getting Parise, but it didn't work out. Can't hate him for that.
I can be disappointed that Shero didn't pursue Semin after he failed to sign Parise. All of the other good wingers were signed while Shero sat with his thumb up his butt waiting for Parise to sign elsewhere. But Semin was still unsigned after Parise signed with minny.

You are telling me that it was smart to go into the season with the idiot wingers we had when Semin coulda been signed for a 1 year deal. Now we are going to have to trade assets for a winger probably less talented that Semin.

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02-16-2013, 11:49 PM
  #999
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Realistically what is a short list of the wingers we could get from non contenders broken down into short term contracts and long term contracts? Can anyone build one to try and re-center this conversation again?

(Fl)Kris versteeg 4.4 million for 4 years
(WPG)blake wheeler 2.6 for 1 year
((WPG)Andrew ladd 4.4 million for 4 years
(NYI)Kyle okposo 2.8 million for 4 years
(NYI)Frans nielsen 2.8 million for 4 years
(NYI) Micheal Grabner 3 million for four years
(TBL) Teddy purcell 4.5 for 3 years starting next season
(Tor) Nikolai Kumelin 2.8 million for 2 years
(MIN) Devin Setoguchi 3 million for 2 years
(STL) Chris Stewart 3 million for one year but RFA

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02-16-2013, 11:50 PM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
You are telling me that it was smart to go into the season with the idiot wingers we had when Semin coulda been signed for a 1 year deal. Now we are going to have to trade assets for a winger probably less talented that Semin.
I think we don't agree on very much usually, but I am certainly on the same page here. The issue is however that Semin is uniquely disliked by lots of people, quite likely NHL managers too, and he pretty much has to turn it on in the playoffs for most those people to change their minds.
A stretch.... but its a bit like Tangradi will have to become a consistent, productive player in the NHL for the majority here to re-consider if we blew the chance with him as much as he blew it himself.

I find it obvious that our top 6 would be an entirely different proposition with Semin added. I also think we could have likely gotten him for less than Carolina if we had been courting him. Bygones.

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