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Blues Trade Proposals Part 3

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02-16-2013, 04:56 AM
  #876
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
You are nuts. Berglund has been the hardest competing scoring-line forward on the team all year and was the same in the playoffs last year, shoving guys off the puck deep in his own zone, winning pucks along the boards at both ends. Other players are better at forechecking, stealing the puck, and winning races for it; but when Berglund has the puck deep in the opposing zone, he holds onto it, buys time, and keeps the play alive for his linemates as well as anyone else on the team. And he has to do this frequently, since Stewart is so-so on the cycle and he's had a rotating cast of left wingers who range from a rookie to nightly scratches.

Backes is not a guy I've ever seen criticized for how he uses his body, and he hits, but doesn't protect and hold the puck nearly as well as Berglund does. Arnott last year is a great example of a big guy who didn't use his body. Berglund is in another universe by comparison.
Pretty much this.

I can see Berglund developing into a true # 2 center in the Blues . He already is a good one, but he can totally dominate in every shift in offensive zone with his size and puck protecting skills. If Stewart becomes better on boards, this line can be very dangerous. I'm very happy to see especially Bergie and Oshie stepping up big time.

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02-16-2013, 05:04 AM
  #877
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I'll also add that Berglund basically never performs a fly-by. When there's a broken play or a puck on the boards, along either blue line, or around the opposing net, he stops on the puck and makes the other team work for it. Backes is held in high regard for his defense and physicality, but he swoops past the puck too often when simply stopping would be a lot more effective. Maybe it's situations like these, in which Berglund is outnumbered, sometimes without support, and sometimes with the puck in his skates, when you're seeing him get beaten by a smaller player. But consider what that play would look like if he didn't stop hard on the play in the first place.

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02-16-2013, 05:56 AM
  #878
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I wish I could magically convert Andy McDonald – of whom I'm a big fan – into Ryan O'Reilly. That is not the trade I'd suggest since Avs would turn it down flat, but I think these would be damn near perfect lines this season:

Perron-O'Reilly-Tarasenko
Steen-Backes-Oshie
Schwartz-Berglund-Stewart
Porter-Sobotka-Reaves

Perron-O'Reilly-Tarasenko would put a great two-way playmaking center with two gifted offensive players who aren't defensive liabilities. Tarasenko right now just isn't with sufficient playmaking prowess to unlock his offensive gifts. Perron would be a huge contributor on that line as well. It would probably draw the other team's top defensive line. It would produce the most points.

Steen-Backes-Oshie are three Selke types on the same line and when they played together last season it was a great blend. You have tremendous defensive awareness, you have two strong takeaway artists in Steen and Oshie, you have some clear offensive talent as well. This line would be a scary shutdown line against opponents' top lines. On any night when an opponent's defensive outlets aren't perfectly sharp, this line would exploit that relentlessly.

Schwartz-Berglund-Stewart is three guys all trying to prove something. Berglund and Stewart know exactly how inconsisent they've been and they're both in career-defining contract years. Schwartz is trying to prove he's a legit NHL impact player. Even if he falls short of true impact player, maybe he's exactly the playmaking, on-ice vision catalyst the other two non-playmaking players need. Call it the Prove It line. With that line likely seeing the lesser of the defensive lines (the stronger opponent defensive line probably tries to limit Perron-ROR-Tarasenko) there should be plenty of opportunity to take advantage of less potent competition.

I put Porter in the lineup that way because it felt a little better than Sobotka-Nichol-Reaves. But he might get claimed off re-entry waivers.

I realize this is unlikely to happen. If they did acquire O'Reilly and had to trade the Avs' asking price of a top prospect and a roster player (but I don't think they're talking D'Agostini-caliber), I'm pretty sure they wouldn't take McDonald with his contract ending and injury history. They'd have to be pretty certain he intended to play another 3-4 years (and for a non-contender during those years at that), and I just don't see it happening. Cole is a roster player the Avs could probably use but the Blues can't and won't trade him unless he is necessary for acquiring the LD we've talked about for two years now. Forward-wise, there just isn't anybody I'd move right now from the lines at the top of the post.

What I think is more likely to happen is the Blues move Cole and Rattie somewhere down the line before the deadline for that LD we all covet. Something like Cole + Rattie + 2d for Giordano + 5th might be too tough to pass up for Calgary, especially with this being considered such a deep draft. Then again, Calgary's management doesn't do very much logically IMO. Cole + Rattie + one of our 2013 2ds is the kind of package that a team out of the playoffs might move a strong LD to acquire.

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02-16-2013, 06:16 AM
  #879
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UFA-wise, the one defenseman who stands out to me is 27yo Ladislav Smid. You'd think the Oilers would make sure to re-sign him given their relative paucity of quality defensemen. He doesn't put up a lot of points but on the Blues opposite Pietrangelo he wouldn't need to. His contract won't be super-high (probably something in the 3s).

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02-16-2013, 09:35 AM
  #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
UFA-wise, the one defenseman who stands out to me is 27yo Ladislav Smid. You'd think the Oilers would make sure to re-sign him given their relative paucity of quality defensemen. He doesn't put up a lot of points but on the Blues opposite Pietrangelo he wouldn't need to. His contract won't be super-high (probably something in the 3s).
It has been long assumed in Edmonton that Smid would resign. That may be slightly in question now:

Quote:
Ladislav Smid
This was another shocker. I thought Smid would be a slam-dunk to sign a long-term deal with the Oilers. Maybe, or maybe not. He's set to become a UFA this summer, but he wants to stay in Edmonton. If the Oilers can't re-sign him to a reasonable deal by April 3, he could be shipped out. Like I said, a shocker.
from Richard Cloutier's blog at hockeybuzz, found HERE

I think Smid would command $4 M on the open market. At least he would have before the cap roll back. I'd look at guys like Vlasic, Alzner, Couburn, Tyutin, etc for salary comparables.

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02-16-2013, 11:21 AM
  #881
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Cole could be the guy next season after his experience this season.

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02-16-2013, 11:59 AM
  #882
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Porter already went through waivers. They changed the rules in the new CBA.

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02-16-2013, 03:20 PM
  #883
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As much as i'd love smid. I'm extremely happy with Cole. He's finally getting a chance to consistently play and he's making the most of it he's looked better and better each game. For a budget team like us he could be key to playing with petro and would help us possibly get a legit center since we wouldn't be paying that money to a dman. Hopefully he can keep it up and not demand to much money when his contract's up.

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02-16-2013, 04:00 PM
  #884
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Yes...But if the Blues could grab Smid and someone like O'Reilly? No chance I don't do it.

McDonald, Schmaltz, and a late pick for O'Reilly, while picking up Smid at just under 4. They'd have to unIoad one of D'agostini, Russell, Redden, or Woywitka. If the Blues could get O'Reilly to sign a deal around 4-4.25 million, they would be set for years. The best part? They would still have cap room to sign all of their RFAs, as long as they don't go full retard asking for star money.

Steen Backes Oshie
Perron O'Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Berglund Stewart
Sobotka Nichol Reaves

Smid Pietrangelo
Jackman Shattenkirk
Cole Polak

Halak
Elliott

If only Stillman and company would open their wallets. (Yes, I know this scenario is unrealistic)

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02-16-2013, 04:05 PM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Yes...But if the Blues could grab Smid and someone like O'Reilly? No chance I don't do it.

McDonald, Schmaltz, and a late pick for O'Reilly, while picking up Smid at just under 4. They'd have to unIoad one of D'agostini, Russell, Redden, or Woywitka. If the Blues could get O'Reilly to sign a deal around 4-4.25 million, they would be set for years. The best part? They would still have cap room to sign all of their RFAs, as long as they don't go full retard asking for star money.

Steen Backes Oshie
Perron O'Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Berglund Stewart
Sobotka Nichol Reaves

Smid Pietrangelo
Jackman Shattenkirk
Cole Polak

Halak
Elliott

If only Stillman and company would open their wallets. (Yes, I know this scenario is unrealistic)
Obviously yes if we can afford it. But it's not the cap i'm worried about as much as it is the teams payroll. Hopefully a nice long playoff run can help this. and I think o'reilly may sign for a little less than that but who knows we'll see.

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02-16-2013, 04:32 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Yes...But if the Blues could grab Smid and someone like O'Reilly? No chance I don't do it.

McDonald, Schmaltz, and a late pick for O'Reilly, while picking up Smid at just under 4. They'd have to unIoad one of D'agostini, Russell, Redden, or Woywitka. If the Blues could get O'Reilly to sign a deal around 4-4.25 million, they would be set for years. The best part? They would still have cap room to sign all of their RFAs, as long as they don't go full retard asking for star money.

Steen Backes Oshie
Perron O'Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Berglund Stewart
Sobotka Nichol Reaves

Smid Pietrangelo
Jackman Shattenkirk
Cole Polak

Halak
Elliott

If only Stillman and company would open their wallets. (Yes, I know this scenario is unrealistic)

Why would Colorado trade ROR for an aging UFA like McDonald? You'd probably have to part with Berglund or Perron, and that's not a price I'd want to pay for him. I'd be happy just having him traded out East, honestly.

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02-16-2013, 04:37 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
Why would Colorado trade ROR for an aging UFA like McDonald? You'd probably have to part with Berglund or Perron, and that's not a price I'd want to pay for him. I'd be happy just having him traded out East, honestly.
An RFA that won't sign isn't worth that much. Besides, I'm essentially offering them a rental that is worth a 2nd or more, a prospect that was just taken in the first round, and another pick...Right around what they'd get on an offer sheet, potentially even better. Moving McDonald would help offset the cost of O'Reilly this year too.

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02-16-2013, 05:49 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
An RFA that won't sign isn't worth that much. Besides, I'm essentially offering them a rental that is worth a 2nd or more, a prospect that was just taken in the first round, and another pick...Right around what they'd get on an offer sheet, potentially even better. Moving McDonald would help offset the cost of O'Reilly this year too.
I understand the general rule that unsigned RFAs aren't worth as much.

That said, this is a different situation. O'Reilly is going to draw enough interest to make a bidding market. So many teams crave a Selke-defense type scoring center. This is a true two-way center who plays an ultra-competitive game. He's a core young center for some team. He led the NHL in takeaways last year. Colorado is really going to get a roster player and a prospect. As in, Cole + Rattie is probably not the best combo of that among the bids. (Don't get me wrong, Cole can't go in any deal right now that doesn't return a better LD.) The acquiring team will almost certainly be allowed to talk to O'Reilly re: his contract demands prior to trade, otherwise Colorado is only hurting its return.

Think of it this way. Berglund often pops up in trade requests. Why? So many teams have that center hole. O'Reilly >>> Berglund, no two ways about it. This is a core player, and you can't trade a core player for a guy who's UFA when there's a bidding market.

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02-16-2013, 06:47 PM
  #889
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The Avs have zero use for Amac. Actually less than zero if that's possible

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Old
02-16-2013, 08:14 PM
  #890
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What if ROR becomes as offensively inconsistent as Berglund?

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02-16-2013, 09:18 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
Wow. Wrong as hell. Berglund hits and protects the puck really well. He doesn't protect the puck like prime Thornton or hit like Reaves, but Berglund still uses his size well and is obviously more aggressive and physically competitive than Bouwmeester is.
I'd take it a step further and say Berglund is and has been the Blues top puck possesion forward going back to last season. Not sure how people missed this.

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02-16-2013, 09:42 PM
  #892
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I'd go even further saying that the problems that Berglund has is because of his supreme puck possession. Because he can hold on to the puck so well, he tends to drift in the offensive zone and not go straight to the net.

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02-17-2013, 01:58 AM
  #893
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
What if ROR becomes as offensively inconsistent as Berglund?
Not a chance. He's significantly better. This is based on the eye test. We're talking about a player who is about 80% likely to be better than Backes in 1-2 years. He is the hardest worker on the Avs, their best 200-foot player by a mile. Significanly more skilled playmaker than Berglund. Night and dayish in that respect.

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02-17-2013, 02:07 AM
  #894
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Another thing to say on the comparison is that Berglund IS inconsistent, but will be definitely getting a contract in the mid 3s or higher after this season. O'Reilly for Berglund would be a bigger steal than the EJ trade. Not saying that would or should be the trade but if you woke up to those headlines tomorrow, the Blues would be a better hockey team now and long into the future. When people come calling asking for Berglund in these trade threads, we all tell them how important having a defensive center is in our system and we reject proposals based on our valuation of him. Well, O'Reilly is better than that. He's been defensively dominant since 18 and when you move him off a line with Yip/Winnik and put skilled wingers with him (Downie, Landeskog which the Blues could match in skill), you can see how his playmaking abilities blossom.

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02-17-2013, 02:35 AM
  #895
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Do you watch a lot of Avs games since you line in Colorado?

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02-17-2013, 06:28 AM
  #896
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Do you watch a lot of Avs games since you line in Colorado?
I watched an insane amount of hockey last winter. Too much, probably. As one of the later-playing teams, I got to see a lot of Colorado. Now that I'm here I see more than average but CB is 4 hours from Denver and I wouldn't say there's lots of Avs interest in this particular town. It's definitely a Broncos town.

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02-17-2013, 07:40 AM
  #897
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The rumor is that ROR is looking for a $5 million x 5 deal. I doubt the Blues are going to have much interest at that price.

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02-17-2013, 02:08 PM
  #898
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Wonder if we will be involved with Columbus in a deal?

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02-17-2013, 02:21 PM
  #899
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Wonder if we will be involved with Columbus in a deal?
I kind of wonder with Jarmo's footprint on our drafts, if he may not want to do a player for prospects deal.

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02-17-2013, 02:27 PM
  #900
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Wonder if we will be involved with Columbus in a deal?
When Jarmo came here did we make any trades with OTT? JD knows the Blues team better than Jarmo does and he has not made any trades with the Blues.

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