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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 8)

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02-17-2013, 01:03 AM
  #51
SpItFiReZ
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What player is going to:

1) be impact that drops to 2nd round
2) who wants to come to Windsor?

I don't mean the 2nd bad but someone who is going I play the college card would be that player. However, what enticement is there to come play here right now?

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02-17-2013, 01:50 AM
  #52
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What enticement?

- NHL prospects - Vail, Rychel, Johnson, Sieloff, etc. You'll have scouts there every game keeping an eye on them.

- 6,000+ fans

- A team that, just a few (apparently long) years ago won back-to-back Memorial Cups.

I know we're struggling this year, but the "we suck!!!! nobody will come here anymore!!!!" mentality is rather annoying.

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02-17-2013, 07:26 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpItFiReZ View Post
What player is going to:

1) be impact that drops to 2nd round
2) who wants to come to Windsor?

I don't mean the 2nd bad but someone who is going I play the college card would be that player. However, what enticement is there to come play here right now?
We could nail a Spencer Watson...

Anyways, this was a long tiring season. Frustrating, too. Tons of bad breaks.

I mean, when do you get an injury plague DURING crunch time?
Pav has been great this season at times, but not when he needed to be.
Pav looked terrible last night too.

This sums up our season: if you can't beat Peterborough, Ottawa and Kingston with the spot we were in, we don't deserve to be in the playoffs.
Hell, Saggy coulda really contended if they kept Trocheck and trade for Koko. Eric Locke is blowing this league up. You would think you could get Locke, Addison, Lodge, Serebrykov and Moutrey for him and Kuchmey .

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02-17-2013, 08:33 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
What enticement?

- NHL prospects - Vail, Rychel, Johnson, Sieloff, etc. You'll have scouts there every game keeping an eye on them.

- 6,000+ fans

- A team that, just a few (apparently long) years ago won back-to-back Memorial Cups.

I know we're struggling this year, but the "we suck!!!! nobody will come here anymore!!!!" mentality is rather annoying.
Let me rephrase it. Didn't mean the we suck mentality. I'm talking what impact player is willing to drop to the 2nd round for us? What would it be worth for them to do so type thing.

Windsor is one of the best places in the O despite our recent struggles.

Also, I was thinking last night since we lost our first rounder. Do we lose a gold package also or still have our 7?

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02-17-2013, 08:39 AM
  #55
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For those wondering about Verbeek - all I know is at a center-ice draw, he starts wailing on one of the Spirit forwards (19??). He was given 2/5/10/GM for fighting, the other guy just went off with what appeared to be a shoulder or arm injury.
It was Zach Bratina and he went off bleeding profusely from his hand possibly cut by a skate.

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02-17-2013, 08:48 AM
  #56
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You would think you could get Locke, Addison, Lodge, Serebrykov and Moutrey for him and Kuchmey .
Thank you. I needed a laugh.

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02-17-2013, 09:50 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SpItFiReZ View Post
Let me rephrase it. Didn't mean the we suck mentality. I'm talking what impact player is willing to drop to the 2nd round for us? What would it be worth for them to do so type thing.

Windsor is one of the best places in the O despite our recent struggles.

Also, I was thinking last night since we lost our first rounder. Do we lose a gold package also or still have our 7?
Windsor lost the 1st rd picks but not the designation

By my count they have 2 to play with,with Ebert,Johnson,Rychel,HoSang and Bateman

amongst the players having the pkgs

Which means they can entice a potential 1st rder to not play for anybody else,all

teams do it,and Windsor would pick such player in the 2nd or 3rd rd

They are probably saving 1 for Schmaltz and the other for Evan Allen,at least thats

what I would be thinking

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02-17-2013, 10:10 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
What enticement?

- NHL prospects - Vail, Rychel, Johnson, Sieloff, etc. You'll have scouts there every game keeping an eye on them.

- 6,000+ fans

- A team that, just a few (apparently long) years ago won back-to-back Memorial Cups.

I know we're struggling this year, but the "we suck!!!! nobody will come here anymore!!!!" mentality is rather annoying.
NHL Prospects, but seemginly poor development on this "new core" - Ebert came to us as a kid who could stick in the NHL as an 18 yr old and crashed and burned. Johnson, Vail, Clarke all went in the mid-to-late rounds. Sieloff was drafted in the second before he came here. Koekkoek was traded for injured. Bateman was also highly thought of as a 15 yr old. Webermin was a first rounder who was forever in the dog house here. Ho-Sang looked like a regular rookie out there, again a year away from being the elite prospect. Look at the last 3-4 draft classes - it's not pretty. I'd worry about the development aspect if I was a parent/agent. If you're playing the NCAA game to choose your landing spot, Windsor's star has faded.

6000+ fans when you're winning. 2000 fans when you're not. And it will be worse next year assuming we don't get the Mem Cup as a lot of those season ticket packages were figuring to get Mem Cup games.

Back-to-Back Memorial Cups means nothing to a player coming in now. It looks more like that was lightning in a bottle than WR and Boughner being some elite talent scouts/coaching.

Not trading Ellis and Kassian was completely bone-headed and totally irresponsible and very likely will end up costing us the hosting gig. Hindsight being 20/20 but keeping them and going for it also led to the Locke trade to add that year.

We should be looking to do a total rebuild when we don't get the Mem Cup - everybody goes.

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02-17-2013, 11:19 AM
  #59
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Doesn't somebody need to talk to Verbeek? Looking at another lengthy suspension that will be 2 in the past month. I understand he's young but doesn't somebody need to get through to him that the only way he's valuable is if he's on the ice?

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02-17-2013, 11:52 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Doesn't somebody need to talk to Verbeek? Looking at another lengthy suspension that will be 2 in the past month. I understand he's young but doesn't somebody need to get through to him that the only way he's valuable is if he's on the ice?
Been told that's impossible with this player. He just doesn't have any hockey IQ. He's like a rabid dog who uses his speed and tenacity to chase the puck. He has no recognition for set plays... all he knows is to chase the puck.

So I've been told anyway...

Once the Kerby saga ends in Windsor, I feel you will see the return of players being accountable for their actions.

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02-17-2013, 12:00 PM
  #61
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Given the only 16 yr olds fight 16 yr olds unwritten rule, he can play the crazed fighter right now, but eventually somebody is going to say "F-it!" to that code and some 18-19 yr old is going to set him straight.

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02-17-2013, 12:16 PM
  #62
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Once the Kerby saga ends in Windsor, I feel you will see the return of players being accountable for their actions.
I agree unfortunately, until Kerby is done in Windsor the "new" culture of the team will not change. I kept a complete open mind in how things would play out when Kerby became a Spitfire with no preconceived notions but it really has became the worst case scenario, even worse than I had thought it could end up.

The team has no chance at success under this structure. It has been great for Kerby and his individual achievements. I don't fault him for that it's management who has let the fundamentals of what Spitfire hockey was to erode on every level. And in turn really didn't do Kerby any good in installing the qualities and details to be a professional hockey player.

Putting up big numbers, playing with the best players, being put in the optimum situations with all the accolades isn't going to be entitled like it is now at the next levels when it has to be earned and earned consistently.

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02-17-2013, 12:33 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
What enticement?

- NHL prospects - Vail, Rychel, Johnson, Sieloff, etc. You'll have scouts there every game keeping an eye on them.

- 6,000+ fans

- A team that, just a few (apparently long) years ago won back-to-back Memorial Cups.

I know we're struggling this year, but the "we suck!!!! nobody will come here anymore!!!!" mentality is rather annoying.
There are a lot of other teams that can point to having NHL draft picks on their roster.

The 6000 fans hasn't really panned out the past 2 years.

Like Otto said it was years ago those the kids you're bringing in now when they Spits were good were at the age of 9 and 10.

It's not the struggling part it's the fact there isn't accountability amongst the players, they come out with what can be characterized as a laissez faire attitude. Even against Sarnia they played well but took for granted Sarnia was settling for OT.

What's annoying is that the players are being blamed for everything but it's time to look at management and coaching. There's an old saying if the student has learned the teacher hasn't taught. I don't see these students/players learning much.

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02-17-2013, 02:00 PM
  #64
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And I don't want an impact player who's playing the NCAA game to pick his spot. Sorry, but we've been burned by that entitlement attitude too much here. How many of our Mem Cup draftees worked the system to come here?

Ebert, Maletta, Bateman and Ho-Sang all played the game - and all have not come near to living up to pre-draft hype/expectations.

If you're not willing to report to anywhere (save maybe the Petes) than I don't want you here either. I want attitudes that you believe you can excel anywhere and are willing to work for it.

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02-17-2013, 02:16 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
And I don't want an impact player who's playing the NCAA game to pick his spot. Sorry, but we've been burned by that entitlement attitude too much here. How many of our Mem Cup draftees worked the system to come here?

If you're not willing to report to anywhere (save maybe the Petes) than I don't want you here either. I want attitudes that you believe you can excel anywhere and are willing to work for it.
Well Taylor Hall refused to play for Erie. I am not sure if Erie would have drafted Hall 1st overall, OReilly was really talked about going #1 from day 1.

Ryan Ellis had an offer from Ohio St, not sure how serious was that.

Watson was pretty much a cooked deal, knew a day before the draft they were going to take him and "hope" he would show.

Fowler I can see how somebody would say it was cooked.

In regards to Hall and Ellis the team wasn't good before they showed up and had very little to sell prospective picks.

I think what you saw earlier was those type of picks wanted to make an impact and put Windsor on the map. Now you see like you say entitlement and certain players just along for the ride. After this week I think the offseason needs to begin now. Rychel and the scouts need to pound the pavement and start drafting better.

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02-17-2013, 03:45 PM
  #66
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[QUOTE=RayzorIsDull;59900921]Well Taylor Hall refused to play for Erie. I am not sure if Erie would have drafted Hall 1st overall, OReilly was really talked about going #1 from day 1.

Ryan Ellis had an offer from Ohio St, not sure how serious was that.

Watson was pretty much a cooked deal, knew a day before the draft they were going to take him and "hope" he would show.

Fowler I can see how somebody would say it was cooked.

In regards to Hall and Ellis the team wasn't good before they showed up and had very little to sell prospective picks.

I think what you saw earlier was those type of picks wanted to make an impact and put Windsor on the map. Now you see like you say entitlement and certain players just along for the ride. After this week I think the offseason needs to begin now. Rychel and the scouts need to pound the pavement and start drafting better.[/QUOTE


Hall actually was not coming to Windsor initially either,despite the fact Riolo was gone for 1 year
As for Watson USNTP took too long so he came to Windsor
While some think it was a cooked deal for Fowler it was not
You are correct Windsor was not a good team prior to Hall and Ellis arriving,coming off their 1st draft with Nemisz,Henriques,Cundari,Wellwood,Hackett, draft
Year 2 had a50 pt improvement tied for 1st,Mickey tragically passes away
We know what happens after that for years 3 and 4-Mem Cups BTB,
No doubt scouting and management have to do their jobs going forward

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02-17-2013, 04:08 PM
  #67
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Did the Spits lose any key scouts from the Mem Cup building years? Did they get lazy and figure they could get kids to play the NCAA card and get top prospects later so didn't need to worry about finding diamonds in the rough? Did they buy into their own hype and think themselves draft geniuses and see things that nobody else was seeing - only to be proven wrong now (and everybody else right)?

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02-17-2013, 04:27 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Did the Spits lose any key scouts from the Mem Cup building years? Did they get lazy and figure they could get kids to play the NCAA card and get top prospects later so didn't need to worry about finding diamonds in the rough? Did they buy into their own hype and think themselves draft geniuses and see things that nobody else was seeing - only to be proven wrong now (and everybody else right)?
A couple of scouts have left,at least 1 was added
As for the drafting or trades for 1st rders it should be noted,that Ebert was rated top
5 for the OHL draft,Bateman and Maletta were legitimate Ist rders,though Maletta
was not their 1st chioce,it was Steven Harper drafted by Erie one spot before Windsor,
Maletta btw was rated as high as 4th,but he did not want to go Sarnia,Erie,Guelph,
Plymouth, Sudbury,Saginaw and Kingston
Where they screwed up was drafting Webermin in the !st,that was a Rychel pick,not the
scouts choice,most wanted Adam Pelech,they shoud have taken him but then again
Plymouth and London passed on him too in the 1st
The following taking Hunter Smith was a huge gaffe in the 2nd,there was a division
amongst scouts it was 4-4 and rychel decided on Smith,drafting on size and projection as opposed to readiness,u lose some ,u win some
Better drafting dont worry about Americans,unless u know they are coming,better
scouting and lose the arrogance is the order of the day
The word on the OHL street is that Windsor is becoming a place not to come,not my
view but from what I have been told,not because of the coaching but because of the arrogance
Their is little sympathy for Windsor"s plight across the league,though i think its better
to have a strong franchise in the league not a weakend one

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02-17-2013, 04:42 PM
  #69
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Ebert came to us as a kid who could stick in the NHL as an 18 yr old and crashed and burned. Johnson, Vail, Clarke all went in the mid-to-late rounds. Sieloff was drafted in the second before he came here. Koekkoek was traded for injured. Bateman was also highly thought of as a 15 yr old. Webermin was a first rounder who was forever in the dog house here. Ho-Sang looked like a regular rookie out there, again a year away from being the elite prospect. Look at the last 3-4 draft classes - it's not pretty. I'd worry about the development aspect if I was a parent/agent. If you're playing the NCAA game to choose your landing spot, Windsor's star has faded.
Ebert - that stuff is on him, not the staff.

Bateman - I'll admit, they've kind of screwed this one up, but not all 1sts pan out.

I don't necessarily believe Windsor's star is fading, but it's taken a hit.

Quote:
Back-to-Back Memorial Cups means nothing to a player coming in now. It looks more like that was lightning in a bottle than WR and Boughner being some elite talent scouts/coaching.
Disagree. When a team won back-to-back Memorial Cups less than five years ago, and went to the West Final the year after, it shows the current regime knows how to win and wants to win.

Quote:
Been told that's impossible with this player. He just doesn't have any hockey IQ. He's like a rabid dog who uses his speed and tenacity to chase the puck. He has no recognition for set plays... all he knows is to chase the puck.
Wouldn't surprise me, but I know I said on Thursday that "Verbeek has impressed the hell out of me. He's been on that puck like it's nobodies business." If he can keep his emotions under control, he should be fine.

Quote:
Like Otto said it was years ago those the kids you're bringing in now when they Spits were good were at the age of 9 and 10.
You realize it was TWO years ago that we were amongst the elite, right?

Quote:
What's annoying is that the players are being blamed for everything but it's time to look at management and coaching. There's an old saying if the student has learned the teacher hasn't taught. I don't see these students/players learning much.
To an extent, such as the PP, I agree. It's the same stuff every time and very easy to stop. The hustle, the lack of shooting (compared to fancy plays), and the overall attitude on the ice are on the players.

Regarding Fowler, take this as you may...

During the draft, I was in the arena with the team. The Fowler stuff appeared to happen at the very last minute and the team was literally chuckling while reading online posts about "cooked deal." It struck me as very "this wasn't supposed to happen, but we'll take it."

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02-17-2013, 05:24 PM
  #70
RayzorIsDull
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A couple of scouts have left,at least 1 was added
As for the drafting or trades for 1st rders it should be noted,that Ebert was rated top
5 for the OHL draft,Bateman and Maletta were legitimate Ist rders,though Maletta
was not their 1st chioce,it was Steven Harper drafted by Erie one spot before Windsor,
Maletta btw was rated as high as 4th,but he did not want to go Sarnia,Erie,Guelph,
Plymouth, Sudbury,Saginaw and Kingston
Where they screwed up was drafting Webermin in the !st,that was a Rychel pick,not the
scouts choice,most wanted Adam Pelech,they shoud have taken him but then again
Plymouth and London passed on him too in the 1st
The following taking Hunter Smith was a huge gaffe in the 2nd,there was a division
amongst scouts it was 4-4 and rychel decided on Smith,drafting on size and projection as opposed to readiness,u lose some ,u win some
Better drafting dont worry about Americans,unless u know they are coming,better
scouting and lose the arrogance is the order of the day
The word on the OHL street is that Windsor is becoming a place not to come,not my
view but from what I have been told,not because of the coaching but because of the arrogance
Their is little sympathy for Windsor"s plight across the league,though i think its better
to have a strong franchise in the league not a weakend one
I am not surprised to hear this. Does Rychel need to trust his scouts more? Of course if a few left maybe the new scouts aren't as good as the old ones. As for the arrogance part too much success too soon it sounds like that. For the most part Rychel and Boughner turned it around over night and I have no doubt they thought they could do it again which was probably the biggest mistake. Every situation is different and you can't expect these new guys to be like Henrique, Nemisz, Ellis etc..

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02-17-2013, 05:28 PM
  #71
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[QUOTE=OHLTG;59910877]


You realize it was TWO years ago that we were amongst the elite, right?
[QUOTE]

Three years ago when the Memorial Cup is raised this year and barring a Memorial Cup bid this organization isn't in shape to win an OHL title so that would be 4 years. Heck the team this year may not get as many points as the "rebuilding" team of last year. There's something rotten in Denmark.

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02-17-2013, 05:55 PM
  #72
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So, being in the West Final isn't amongst the elite? My point still stands...kids weren't 9 or 10 when we won.

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02-17-2013, 06:57 PM
  #73
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So, being in the West Final isn't amongst the elite? My point still stands...kids weren't 9 or 10 when we won.
Care to chime in on what Legend said on how Windsor is getting the rep of a place you don't want to send your kid?

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02-17-2013, 07:17 PM
  #74
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I agree unfortunately, until Kerby is done in Windsor the "new" culture of the team will not change. I kept a complete open mind in how things would play out when Kerby became a Spitfire with no preconceived notions but it really has became the worst case scenario, even worse than I had thought it could end up.

The team has no chance at success under this structure. It has been great for Kerby and his individual achievements. I don't fault him for that it's management who has let the fundamentals of what Spitfire hockey was to erode on every level. And in turn really didn't do Kerby any good in installing the qualities and details to be a professional hockey player.

Putting up big numbers, playing with the best players, being put in the optimum situations with all the accolades isn't going to be entitled like it is now at the next levels when it has to be earned and earned consistently.
The Rychel era could have worked. Heck the Hunter's made it work with Dylan the most talented out of the trio (Logan, Garrett). Of course Dylan wasn't the man who had to carry the load he had the supporting cast through his career with guys like Perry, Schremp, Fritsche, Sheppard, Bolland, Kostitsyn etc.. With the Spits Rychel doesn't have that supporting cast with the exception of Khokhlachev. Some of these other guys like Johnson, Vail and Marchese are being paraded around like top line players when in reality they are 3rd line guys.

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02-17-2013, 07:36 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Care to chime in on what Legend said on how Windsor is getting the rep of a place you don't want to send your kid?
I haven't heard anything, so tough to say much. I realize that's not what you wanted to hear, but it's what I'm saying.

Quote:
Some of these other guys like Johnson, Vail and Marchese are being paraded around like top line players when in reality they are 3rd line guys.
45 points is a 3rd line guy? I think Montreal would disagree. Unless you're simply comparing to the two title teams??

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