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Our defence is awful. Who can Tallon target?

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02-17-2013, 01:45 AM
  #26
JonathanHuberdoh
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I've been preaching on these boards for two weeks about our horrible slow defense.

Of course, it takes these kinds of losses for people to listen

Those 4 are far too slow. It's ok for an NHL team to have a couple of guys like that (Jovo, Guds), but having Strach, Weaver and Kuba on the same team? UGH

They're all so painfully slow. Then as mentioned earlier in this thread, we traded our only other decent skating defenseman outside of Kuli and Campbell. We have such a slow defensive core.

There's no way to improve unfortunately and I'm with the general consensus, sell off the spare parts and tank the season. There's nothing to salvage this season.

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02-17-2013, 02:02 AM
  #27
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Tallon obviously signed kuba and jovo and traded ellerby because he wanted to tank hardcore for draft picks.. ITS CLEARLY OBVIOUS

....




I have to agree, putrid defense from our back end. Kuli needs to step up. I like that he is skating up more, playing more aggressively and throwing bigger hits.

I think he's trying hard to be more offensive minded on the breakout/their end and more aggressive on our end. The kid needs to freaking work on his shot.. jeez..

Not sure if Guds was on the ice on most of our PP's but I would like him (and kuli) to work on their shots on the point during our PP's.

I think our forwards needs to take some responsibility on making sure that they do their jobs on our end. Two of the goals today were straight in the middle passes, focus on the man and not the puck.

I miss Garrison..

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02-17-2013, 02:20 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursavolta View Post
Tallon obviously signed kuba and jovo and traded ellerby because he wanted to tank hardcore for draft picks.. ITS CLEARLY OBVIOUS

....




I have to agree, putrid defense from our back end. Kuli needs to step up. I like that he is skating up more, playing more aggressively and throwing bigger hits.

I think he's trying hard to be more offensive minded on the breakout/their end and more aggressive on our end. The kid needs to freaking work on his shot.. jeez..

Not sure if Guds was on the ice on most of our PP's but I would like him (and kuli) to work on their shots on the point during our PP's.

I think our forwards needs to take some responsibility on making sure that they do their jobs on our end. Two of the goals today were straight in the middle passes, focus on the man and not the puck.

I miss Garrison..
Can Kulikov step up though and help carry this team? I remember like yesterday when Garrison went down with an injury and our team looked so out of balance. Then he came back and all of a sudden we were a shot away from the second round. We really need a guy like a Garrison.

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02-17-2013, 02:45 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ursavolta View Post
I think our forwards needs to take some responsibility on making sure that they do their jobs on our end. Two of the goals today were straight in the middle passes, focus on the man and not the puck.
The forwards are often out of positions and running around like chickens without heads. There's no discipline.

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02-17-2013, 08:30 AM
  #30
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There was a bunch of comments in the Weiss thread about Kuli and Guds but I don't think we should talk about them there and instead talk about them here. So my comments are related to how developed Kuli is and it relates to what I believe Tallon (or maybe it was Denis Potvin a few yrs ago) that said d-men are pretty much developed when they have played 300 games. Age really doesn't matter with d-men so let's not use that to judge a guy. Right now Kuli has played about 210 games so he has basically the rest of this yr and half of next yr to finish developing. By then, what you see is what you get and unless Kuli takes a huge leap next yr, I don't see a guy that is a true top pairing d-man.

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02-17-2013, 08:39 AM
  #31
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Kuba needs to go. Don't care how, don't care where to, but just gone for good. Good riddance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
Kulikov seems to have lost his confidence. There was a play today where the puck was heading out of the offensive zone and there was no one close to it except Kuli. Instead of jumping up and keeping it in he started skating backwards and let a Tampa player jump on it and skate out of his zone.
Not sure if we're talking about the same play here, but Kuli did the right call there. I cursed him too at first, but there was a Bolts player trying to break through behind him IIRC.

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02-17-2013, 09:51 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
Kuba needs to go. Don't care how, don't care where to, but just gone for good. Good riddance.

Not sure if we're talking about the same play here, but Kuli did the right call there. I cursed him too at first, but there was a Bolts player trying to break through behind him IIRC.
I agree with this assessment. I thought it was a mature play considering that we had the lead at the time.

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02-17-2013, 11:13 AM
  #33
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I agree with this assessment. I thought it was a mature play considering that we had the lead at the time.
I saw it and instantly said damn, but with a lead, veteran move.

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02-17-2013, 11:18 AM
  #34
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On another note, "We had the lead at the time" Should be the motto for the 2012-2013 Florida Panthers.

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02-17-2013, 11:26 AM
  #35
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I don't get all the hate Weaver get's. He's cheap, leads our team in blocked shots every season and plays over 4min/per game PK among top 5 in NHL year in year out. IMO he's the perfect 6th dman.

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02-17-2013, 11:32 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
Kuba needs to go. Don't care how, don't care where to, but just gone for good. Good riddance.

Not sure if we're talking about the same play here, but Kuli did the right call there. I cursed him too at first, but there was a Bolts player trying to break through behind him IIRC.
It was in the first period and I don't remember anybody near or behind Kuli it was him and the puck and he bailed out. He needs to get his confidence back and start hitting the net. I like Kuli a lot he has a tremendous upside but I am just sick of waiting for him to hit that upside. This year has just been frustrating so far, Kuba is a bust, Kuli has been a turnover machine and Ellerby gets traded for a bag of pucks. Defense and goal tending which has been a strength is killing the team this year plus our top line is awful. I think the worst is scoring 5 goals twice in a week and losing it sucks.

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02-17-2013, 11:33 AM
  #37
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If the D stays the same, then a move on the goalie front has to be made. Theo is a good goalie when he's on, but he's not the sort of a game changer that for example Kipper is. Too bad Kipper isn't probably for sale, and even if he was, would be probably too costly to get.

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02-17-2013, 12:18 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
There was a bunch of comments in the Weiss thread about Kuli and Guds but I don't think we should talk about them there and instead talk about them here. So my comments are related to how developed Kuli is and it relates to what I believe Tallon (or maybe it was Denis Potvin a few yrs ago) that said d-men are pretty much developed when they have played 300 games. Age really doesn't matter with d-men so let's not use that to judge a guy. Right now Kuli has played about 210 games so he has basically the rest of this yr and half of next yr to finish developing. By then, what you see is what you get and unless Kuli takes a huge leap next yr, I don't see a guy that is a true top pairing d-man.
Couldn't agree more.

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02-17-2013, 12:24 PM
  #39
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We could trade Kuba for be less turnovers anyway.

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02-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #40
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Campbell is underachieving big time. We sink and swim with his play and he's been average at best.

Kuba isn't playing well but he's been asked to do too much. It's like when we had McCabe as our #1 guy then he got traded to the Rangers and was barely playing. Kuba is okay if he's a third pairing guy but once again the Florida organization has players being asked to do too much.

These two guys are the biggest reason our D-core struggles.

Being fair to the d-men, our forwards suck in their own end.

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02-17-2013, 12:49 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
There was a bunch of comments in the Weiss thread about Kuli and Guds but I don't think we should talk about them there and instead talk about them here. So my comments are related to how developed Kuli is and it relates to what I believe Tallon (or maybe it was Denis Potvin a few yrs ago) that said d-men are pretty much developed when they have played 300 games. Age really doesn't matter with d-men so let's not use that to judge a guy. Right now Kuli has played about 210 games so he has basically the rest of this yr and half of next yr to finish developing. By then, what you see is what you get and unless Kuli takes a huge leap next yr, I don't see a guy that is a true top pairing d-man.
Completely disagree and a shortened season with no training camp doesn't count as much as another season. Kulikov already shows signs of being a top pair d-men. He can do everything right now but score. With more consistency to his game which will come he's going to be a top pairing d-man. I also disagree with Potvin's metric. There are a lot of variables such as team strength, who you play with, coaching, etc. that go into those 300 games. The right coach or perfect veteran guy to pair a younger guy with can make a world of difference after his 300 game mark which he pulled out of thin air.

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02-17-2013, 01:45 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
There was a bunch of comments in the Weiss thread about Kuli and Guds but I don't think we should talk about them there and instead talk about them here. So my comments are related to how developed Kuli is and it relates to what I believe Tallon (or maybe it was Denis Potvin a few yrs ago) that said d-men are pretty much developed when they have played 300 games. Age really doesn't matter with d-men so let's not use that to judge a guy. Right now Kuli has played about 210 games so he has basically the rest of this yr and half of next yr to finish developing. By then, what you see is what you get and unless Kuli takes a huge leap next yr, I don't see a guy that is a true top pairing d-man.
I'm not sure about Potvin but I definitely know Tallon has stated this. And ever since I heard him say that, I've always kept that in my head as a measuring stick for defensemen. So yeah, Kuli still has about 90 games to reach that point.

The only reason Kuli's name comes up in trade talks is because he's a nice trade chip that could bring something of significance back. All the fantasy trades that involve Clem, Kuba, Jovo, etc. won't happen because no one wants them. And at this point, I'd rather trade Weiss than Kuli.

-ghoste

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02-17-2013, 02:12 PM
  #43
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02-17-2013, 02:13 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
We could trade Kuba for be less turnovers anyway.
Mathieu Biron !

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02-17-2013, 03:44 PM
  #45
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If you really pay attention to the play in our own zone, you should realize most of our problems stem from positioning from BOTH our defense AND forwards.

I feel it's a lack of focus, effort and communication. The defense love to chip it up the boards and the forwards aren't there, the opponent's D is anticipating that and firing it back in deep or getting a shot off. The forwards have to be shadowing the opponent's D-man, while also waiting for a pass. They are simply floating around the face-off circles and out of position. Our glaring weakness is our breakouts.

The team gets flustered when we can't relieve pressure and just ice it, chip it out losing posession again or make silly passes that don't connect. We don't have the focus from the forwards to position themselves closer to the opponents D, we have a weird collapsing system that mirrors a PK situation. The only way to fix is that is in practice with new defensive drills. Dineen must recognize this sooner than later.

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02-17-2013, 04:23 PM
  #46
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The lack of positioning is the lack of a system! The coach owns most of this and at some point it's probably going to cost him his job.

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02-17-2013, 04:44 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafspanthersfan View Post
The lack of positioning is the lack of a system! The coach owns most of this and at some point it's probably going to cost him his job.
Thing is.. We have lacked positioning for ever no matter who our coach has been

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02-17-2013, 06:16 PM
  #48
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02-17-2013, 06:28 PM
  #49
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You can't play it both ways 0.G.

PDB had little confidence in him as well.
it's true, pete had him on a short leash at the end of his last year, after ellerby had bounced between rochester and the big club quite a bit. in his defense, pete even admitted he was burnt out trying to squeeze wins out with the roster he was given but i agree, ellerby should've been given time during that stretch when the season was lost.

however, there's no reason he should not have been penciled in as a 3rd pairing guy last year or (certainly not) this year, especially given the guys we're throwing out there now.

it's just ridiculous to think how badly this team gets screwed by mishandling its young NHLers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
I'm not sure about Potvin but I definitely know Tallon has stated this. And ever since I heard him say that, I've always kept that in my head as a measuring stick for defensemen. So yeah, Kuli still has about 90 games to reach that point.

The only reason Kuli's name comes up in trade talks is because he's a nice trade chip that could bring something of significance back. All the fantasy trades that involve Clem, Kuba, Jovo, etc. won't happen because no one wants them. And at this point, I'd rather trade Weiss than Kuli.

-ghoste
potvin is the guy we've all heard say this over the years. never heard tallon say it but it's possible he has as well.

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02-17-2013, 08:35 PM
  #50
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it's true, pete had him on a short leash at the end of his last year, after ellerby had bounced between rochester and the big club quite a bit. in his defense, pete even admitted he was burnt out trying to squeeze wins out with the roster he was given but i agree, ellerby should've been given time during that stretch when the season was lost.

however, there's no reason he should not have been penciled in as a 3rd pairing guy last year or (certainly not) this year, especially given the guys we're throwing out there now.

I'm not thrilled with the Ellerby dump, but the odd timing of it makes me suspect that there is more to the story.

As we've often mentioned in our frequent entanglements over the years, there are things that go on in the locker room that we are not aware of.

The fact that Ellerby was treated similarly under two head coaches who have quite dissimilar styles suggests to me that there is something about the situation that we are not aware of.

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