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Fail for top pick. Come back with a contender next year!

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Old
02-16-2013, 09:52 PM
  #126
John Holmes*
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You have to play the hand you are dealt.

The right play is to move the vets for young players and picks.

That means unloading guys like Gonchar, Phillips and Alfredsson. Maybe it's time to look at moving Michalek as well.

Even if we do get a top pick in the next draft, it's not like one of those guys is going to step in right away. Those guys are years away. Gonchar & Alfie will be gone anyway. Phillips has been awful for years now, pretty much since Chanks walked.

Nobody likes to admit it, but it's the truth.

Michalek is going to get more expensive than he's worth, and does he REALLY fit in to the long term plans of this team? Moving him while he still has some value is a smart move.

Nobody wanted a season like this, but we have it, so let's deal with it appropriately.

It's not about "tanking" it's about setting yourself up for the future. That is all we really have to look forward to this season.

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02-16-2013, 09:53 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
How many prospects in this yr's draft will be able to step into the NHL next season? My guess 3 or less. Chances of Ottawa getting one of those three, slim to none.
Not if you are last. Your chances are pretty damn good then.

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02-16-2013, 09:55 PM
  #128
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A lot of you don't understand what is being put forward. It's not about our players choosing to tank, it's about our team tanking because we suck without our key players who are injured. I have no problems with this team bottoming out this season. It's not about the players giving up. It's about the talent not being there to be a competitive playoff team.

The team will play to the best of their abilities for the remainder of the season, but Murray isn't an idiot. Expect to see some potential selling moves at the deadline. I'm expecting Gonchar to be shipped out.

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Old
02-16-2013, 09:57 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by VikingKarlsson View Post
Not if you are last. Your chances are pretty damn good then.
Have you checked out some of the teams in the Eastern Conference? My guess is that Ottawa will be fighting for a playoff spot right down to the end of the season same as last yr & the yr before. Some guys are coming back, some young guys are going to be better & Anderson will keep us in every game. We just need a little more puck luck right now.

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02-16-2013, 10:00 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
Have you checked out some of the teams in the Eastern Conference? My guess is that Ottawa will be fighting for a playoff spot right down to the end of the season same as last yr & the yr before. Some guys are coming back, some young guys are going to be better & Anderson will keep us in every game. We just need a little more puck luck right now.
Try making the playoffs when your team has trouble scoring a goal every game. A little more pick luck, really.. Ottawa is icing an AHL team in an NHL league.

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Old
02-16-2013, 10:02 PM
  #131
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We finished 8th WITH Spezza & Karlsson.

This is not a playoff team without them. If Anderson were to go down, we'd be at the bottom of the standings in a nanosecond.

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02-16-2013, 10:04 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
Have you checked out some of the teams in the Eastern Conference? My guess is that Ottawa will be fighting for a playoff spot right down to the end of the season same as last yr & the yr before. Some guys are coming back, some young guys are going to be better & Anderson will keep us in every game. We just need a little more puck luck right now.
And for the standings, ottawa is 5 points up on Washington who is in 15th in the east dead last, and since losing Karlsson in the second period of the pittsburg game we have yet to score a goal.

Wake up an see this team can find itself dead last while trying hard every night icing ahl players.

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02-16-2013, 10:06 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
Have you checked out some of the teams in the Eastern Conference? My guess is that Ottawa will be fighting for a playoff spot right down to the end of the season same as last yr & the yr before. Some guys are coming back, some young guys are going to be better & Anderson will keep us in every game. We just need a little more puck luck right now.
We're barely hanging on to a playoff spot RIGHT NOW, and we've played half our games with Spezza and/or Karlsson in the lineup AND the only playoff contender we've played is the Penguins.

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Old
02-16-2013, 10:13 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
We finished 8th WITH Spezza & Karlsson.

This is not a playoff team without them. If Anderson were to go down, we'd be at the bottom of the standings in a nanosecond.
Yea but Karlsson got wayyy better and Ottawa has stronger supporting cast than ****ing Bobby Butler.

Not to mention more defensive oriented team with a ten times better Anderson and Methot etc...

I agree though, without them, we are nothing. What's funny is that it could be said for any team in the league too.

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Old
02-16-2013, 10:17 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
Professional athletes will never quit or give up, unlike some of their fans.
you haven't watched enough NBA/NFL if you think pros never quit. and enough with the haughty headshake. there isn't a Sens fan alive that thinks we can contend without Karlsson so let's just let people cheer for what they want (playoffs, wins, Leafkillers, 1st overall draft pick, whatever)

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Old
02-17-2013, 05:55 AM
  #136
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With San Jose in a tailspin, I wonder if they'd look at trading Ryane Clowe. I love his game.

Maybe MM for Clowe straight up...
He'd be perfect for the 2nd line.

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:02 AM
  #137
MAK19
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Trade Spezza (probably in the off-season)
Trade Michalek
Trade Gonchar
Trade Anderson
Trade Methot
Trade Greening if his value is high
Trade Latendresse if he has any value
Trade Regin if he has any value (love him but he can't be relied upon)
Trade Phillips if he wants (to a nice team)
Trade Neil if he wants (to a nice team)
Trade Alfredsson if he asks for it (to a nice team)



Long term


ZIBANEJAD - X - X
X - TURRIS - STONE
X - DA COSTA - SILFVERBERG
CONDRA - SMITH - O'BRIEN
GRANT

COWEN - KARLSSON
WIERCICOH - CECI
BOROWIECKI - WIKSTRAND
GRYBA

LEHNER
X



Holes are filled with pieces acquired from the trades, a top selection in 2013, existing prospects that aren't mentioned, and free agency.



It may not look good for 2013-14, but:
1-The point is to be good long term
2-Players (good ones) will be acquired for the traded players
3-Free agency can bring in 2-3 solid vets

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:15 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Trade Spezza (probably in the off-season)
Trade Michalek
Trade Gonchar
Trade Anderson
Trade Methot
Trade Greening if his value is high
Trade Latendresse if he has any value
Trade Regin if he has any value (love him but he can't be relied upon)
Trade Phillips if he wants (to a nice team)
Trade Neil if he wants (to a nice team)
Trade Alfredsson if he asks for it (to a nice team)



Long term


ZIBANEJAD - X - X
X - TURRIS - STONE
X - DA COSTA - SILFVERBERG
CONDRA - SMITH - O'BRIEN
GRANT

COWEN - KARLSSON
WIERCICOH - CECI
BOROWIECKI - WIKSTRAND
GRYBA

LEHNER
X



Holes are filled with pieces acquired from the trades, a top selection in 2013, existing prospects that aren't mentioned, and free agency.



It may not look good for 2013-14, but:
1-The point is to be good long term
2-Players (good ones) will be acquired for the traded players
3-Free agency can bring in 2-3 solid vets
Ha... Are you looking to be worse than Edmonton for the next 3 years?

No way you trade Spezza, Neil, Methot, or Alfredsson... Thats our leadership core... I doubt Phillips ever gets dealt as well...

Other than that, Latendresse and Regin have no value right now...

You are then relying on completely unproven players in Zibby, Silf, Da Costa, Stone and a semi proven Turris... Seems like a great recipe for success...

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:19 AM
  #139
trobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Trade Spezza (probably in the off-season)
Trade Michalek
Trade Gonchar
Trade Anderson
Trade Methot
Trade Greening if his value is high
Trade Latendresse if he has any value
Trade Regin if he has any value (love him but he can't be relied upon)
Trade Phillips if he wants (to a nice team)
Trade Neil if he wants (to a nice team)
Trade Alfredsson if he asks for it (to a nice team)



Long term


ZIBANEJAD - X - X
X - TURRIS - STONE
X - DA COSTA - SILFVERBERG
CONDRA - SMITH - O'BRIEN
GRANT

COWEN - KARLSSON
WIERCICOH - CECI
BOROWIECKI - WIKSTRAND
GRYBA

LEHNER
X



Holes are filled with pieces acquired from the trades, a top selection in 2013, existing prospects that aren't mentioned, and free agency.



It may not look good for 2013-14, but:
1-The point is to be good long term
2-Players (good ones) will be acquired for the traded players
3-Free agency can bring in 2-3 solid vets
It's tough to swallow, but I agree with most of what you said.

Out of the group:
I'd keep Greening for the 3rd line.
Silfverburg belongs on the 2nd line.
Keep Anderson (Unless a crazy offer comes Murray's way)
Keep Spezza (Unless you can fleece a guy like Tambellini a get a young stud like Eberle in return)

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02-17-2013, 08:21 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Trade Spezza (probably in the off-season)
Trade Michalek
Trade Gonchar
Trade Anderson
Trade Methot
Trade Greening if his value is high
Trade Latendresse if he has any value
Trade Regin if he has any value (love him but he can't be relied upon)
Trade Phillips if he wants (to a nice team)
Trade Neil if he wants (to a nice team)
Trade Alfredsson if he asks for it (to a nice team)



Long term


ZIBANEJAD - X - X
X - TURRIS - STONE
X - DA COSTA - SILFVERBERG
CONDRA - SMITH - O'BRIEN
GRANT

COWEN - KARLSSON
WIERCICOH - CECI
BOROWIECKI - WIKSTRAND
GRYBA

LEHNER
X



Holes are filled with pieces acquired from the trades, a top selection in 2013, existing prospects that aren't mentioned, and free agency.



It may not look good for 2013-14, but:
1-The point is to be good long term
2-Players (good ones) will be acquired for the traded players
3-Free agency can bring in 2-3 solid vets
Spezza won't be touched because a number one center is a very hard position to fill and Spezza, when healthy, is above average in the league and he always steps it up when we need him to.

Methot has been pretty good but if something comes along I am okey with giving him up.

Andy has been the best goalie in the NHL and you don't give that up unless the offer is outa this world.

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02-17-2013, 08:23 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend Killer View Post
Ha... Are you looking to be worse than Edmonton for the next 3 years?

No way you trade Spezza, Neil, Methot, or Alfredsson... Thats our leadership core... I doubt Phillips ever gets dealt as well...

Other than that, Latendresse and Regin have no value right now...

You are then relying on completely unproven players in Zibby, Silf, Da Costa, Stone and a semi proven Turris... Seems like a great recipe for success...
Keeping an aging core isn't a recipe for success either.

Alfie is a Sens for life regardless if he ever leaves (which is up to him), but he'll be 41 next season. Phillips has been slowing down for a couple of years now. When your "core" is no longer effective, you have to build a new core...

It's hard for some people to come to grips with but you can't have Alfie penciled in our Top-6 forever.

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:31 AM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Trade Spezza (probably in the off-season)
No.

Quote:
Trade Michalek
Trade Gonchar
Ok.

Quote:
Trade Anderson
Trade Methot
No.

Quote:
Trade Greening if his value is high
Trade Latendresse if he has any value
Trade Regin if he has any value (love him but he can't be relied upon)
All three are worthless.

Quote:
Trade Phillips if he wants (to a nice team)
Could be valuable insurance for a contender. Usually elevates game at playoff time.

Quote:
Trade Neil if he wants (to a nice team)
It might be time. Could be an important role player for a contender.

Quote:
Trade Alfredsson if he asks for it (to a nice team)
Probably the best option due to our season getting flushed. I don't think we'll get a whole lot for him at this point. Might not be worth it. I'd leave the decision in his hands.

Quote:
Long term


ZIBANEJAD - X - X
X - TURRIS - STONE
X - DA COSTA - SILFVERBERG
CONDRA - SMITH - O'BRIEN
GRANT

COWEN - KARLSSON
WIERCICOH - CECI
BOROWIECKI - WIKSTRAND
GRYBA

LEHNER
X



Holes are filled with pieces acquired from the trades, a top selection in 2013, existing prospects that aren't mentioned, and free agency.



It may not look good for 2013-14, but:
1-The point is to be good long term
2-Players (good ones) will be acquired for the traded players
3-Free agency can bring in 2-3 solid vets

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:32 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Legend Killer View Post
Ha... Are you looking to be worse than Edmonton for the next 3 years?

No way you trade Spezza, Neil, Methot, or Alfredsson... Thats our leadership core... I doubt Phillips ever gets dealt as well...

Other than that, Latendresse and Regin have no value right now...

You are then relying on completely unproven players in Zibby, Silf, Da Costa, Stone and a semi proven Turris... Seems like a great recipe for success...
''Trading'' means getting something in return. So obviously, there's more to it then the X spots.

If the best deal available for Spezza is a late 1st, then obviously I wouldn't move him. For Spezza I'd expect a package that includes a player who can contribute immediately.

Michalek too for example, would require a nice player (as in better than late 1st rounder type).

With the sheer amount of prospects, chances are some will start scoring.

If all those players are traded, 2013-14 will tough. Though I don't expect I'd find a deal I liked for all those players.

It's not just trading for the sake of trading. It's trading with a purpose. It all depends on what you can return. I expect a big return for Spezza, and if I can't find it, he stays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLOVEkubasTUBA View Post
It's tough to swallow, but I agree with most of what you said.

Out of the group:
I'd keep Greening for the 3rd line.
Silfverburg belongs on the 2nd line.
Keep Anderson (Unless a crazy offer comes Murray's way)
Keep Spezza (Unless you can fleece a guy like Tambellini a get a young stud like Eberle in return)
I thought Stone would be a nice fit with Turris because of his playmaking skills

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:37 AM
  #144
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Not against shipping players out but the nuclear option as outlined above will be counterprouctive in the end.

We are already in a rebuild so some of the players MAK mentioned will probably be dealt in time but a complete blow-up effectively rules us out of contention for anything but a lottery pick for a good minute.

Why would we even consider trading Spezza, our #1 C? For the hope of drafting someone who may be as good as he is? Filling in a spot somewhere else in the line-up with a lesser player?

There's also this thing called the cap floor. Unless the blanks in the line-up outlined by MAK are making boatloads of cash we don't make it with what is essentially Kyle Turris, Erik Karlsson, three grinders and the all-rookie team.

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02-17-2013, 08:40 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Drama View Post
Spezza won't be touched because a number one center is a very hard position to fill and Spezza, when healthy, is above average in the league and he always steps it up when we need him to.

Methot has been pretty good but if something comes along I am okey with giving him up.

Andy has been the best goalie in the NHL and you don't give that up unless the offer is outa this world.
2013 draft can replace Spezza. Lots of elite forwards available.

Even ''just'' getting Monahan.

Monahan
Turris
Da Costa
Smith

is very nice centre depth. No Spezza, but very very strong defensively. Very balanced.


Anderson is a solid #1 goalie. But all he does is help short term. He's not the long term solution, so he should be at least shopped around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
All three are worthless.
Disagree on Greening. There's probably an Aragorn-ish GM out there drooling over size. But in general he's fairly useless, so I'd move him if he does in fact have value.

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:48 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Trade Spezza (probably in the off-season)29
Trade Michalek28
Trade Gonchar 38
Trade Anderson 31
Trade Methot 27
Trade Greening if his value is high 26
Trade Latendresse if he has any value 25
Trade Regin if he has any value (love him but he can't be relied upon) 26
Trade Phillips if he wants (to a nice team)34
Trade Neil if he wants (to a nice team) 33
Trade Alfredsson if he asks for it (to a nice team)40



Long term


ZIBANEJAD19 - X - X
X - TURRIS22 - STONE20
X - DA COSTA23 - SILFVERBERG22
CONDRA26 - SMITH24 - O'BRIEN24
GRANT22

COWEN22 - KARLSSON22
WIERCICOH22 - CECI18
BOROWIECKI23 - WIKSTRAND19
GRYBA24

LEHNER21
X
I see what you did there. Condra would be the oldest player on our team...

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02-17-2013, 08:50 AM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quo View Post
Not against shipping players out but the nuclear option as outlined above will be counterprouctive in the end.

We are already in a rebuild so some of the players MAK mentioned will probably be dealt in time but a complete blow-up effectively rules us out of contention for anything but a lottery pick for a good minute.

Why would we even consider trading Spezza, our #1 C? For the hope of drafting someone who may be as good as he is? Filling in a spot somewhere else in the line-up with a lesser player?

There's also this thing called the cap floor. Unless the blanks in the line-up outlined by MAK are making boatloads of cash we don't make it with what is essentially Kyle Turris, Erik Karlsson, three grinders and the all-rookie team.
That lineup was long term, not necessarily 2013-14.



Throw a mountain of cash at Corey Perry. 2011-12 Florida Panthers style.

At any rate, I thought the cap floor only needed to be reached to be eligible for revenue sharing. ??


I'd trade Spezza for a top 2 pick in the draft (among other things)... You seem to think Spezza is more valuable than that, am I right? Why?

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02-17-2013, 08:51 AM
  #148
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I see what you did there. Condra would be the oldest player on our team...
The Legend of Rik Condra lives on

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02-17-2013, 09:12 AM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
That lineup was long term, not necessarily 2013-14.



Throw a mountain of cash at Corey Perry. 2011-12 Florida Panthers style.

At any rate, I thought the cap floor only needed to be reached to be eligible for revenue sharing. ??


I'd trade Spezza for a top 2 pick in the draft (among other things)... You seem to think Spezza is more valuable than that, am I right? Why?
So you are going to trade out 29 yr old #1 C who makes 7M a year and is probably our next captain for a high draft pick...

Then you are going to throw a mountain of cash at 28? Yr old Perry to be our first line RW to play alongside 19 yr old Monohan? That would surely lure him away from his current situation...

You are right, an aging core isnt the best to move forward with but a combination of Spezza, Karlsson, Turris, Neil, Cowen, Smith, Methot, etc isnt an aging core...

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:12 AM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
We finished 8th WITH Spezza & Karlsson.

This is not a playoff team without them. If Anderson were to go down, we'd be at the bottom of the standings in a nanosecond.
This team healthy was notably better than last year. Ksrlssons development alone changed things for the better.

But I agree, play the cards you're dealt. But Alfies retirement isn't a foregone conclusion. This team probably goes back into temporary rebuild mentality.

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